Mandating COVID-19 Vaccination

[Fledermaus]

What? Aye we don't need to look far for an idiot!
Freedom? Advice given? Are you a ruddy imbecile...... they haven't even invented a vaccine. And giving the likes of Bill Gates who is more than 50% of the WHO, a mandate to make money? That, Bill Gates a well know eugenics proponent as was his parents! Give him the right to inject our loved ones with a drug that he himself and his company have been absolved of any damage it can do to your loved one!
The masks are for the weak of mind, any virus will pass through any mask, or enter any mask, but out of respect for my fellow countrymen and women, willingly wear a mask!
But like every Tory I have ever known, and intensely disliked...... you boil it down to money, your god! Fine them, the majority of those fellow countrymen in England, are knocking on poverties doors.... they have no money! Did you not read the United Nations report, your government is starving your nation! Just for the fun of it!

Nice rant.

You're an antivaxxer too?

 

[Robertinfremont]

God help us should Biden win the job of president he does not even believe in vaccines created by our scientists to defeat this CV19 virus.

Potentially Biden can kill our country. Democrats if you plan to die from the Virus, now is your chance to vote Biden into office.

 

[Highlanders]

Nice rant.

You're an antivaxxer too?

Yes and no!
I'm anti Zionist as you know, and if you want to inject yourself after being fully informed of possible repercussions, and what dog cells, formaldehyde, aborted foetus cells or what ever else in in the injection, and you give informed consent .... you have the freedom to do whatever you want, it's your body! Knock yourself out!

 

[Highlanders]

God help us should Biden win the job of president he does not even believe in vaccines created by our scientists to defeat this CV19 virus.

Potentially Biden can kill our country. Democrats if you plan to die from the Virus, now is your chance to vote Biden into office.

Well, much against the grain...... he can't be totally insane!

 

[Robertinfremont]

Well, much against the grain...... he can't be totally insane!

Biden is on record as dismissing the Vaccine being created by scientists to win this war with CV19 virus. He will ban using it.

 

[Fledermaus]

Yes and no!
I'm anti Zionist as you know, and if you want to inject yourself after being fully informed of possible repercussions, and what dog cells, formaldehyde, aborted foetus cells or what ever else in in the injection, and you give informed consent .... you have the freedom to do whatever you want, it's your body! Knock yourself out!

Oh, look, another rant.

 

[Ethel2]

Actually completely relevant analogy.. the REASON thats its "already illegal"...is BECAUSE though the employer offers the employee a "choice" of either having sex or not being allowed to work.... our society recognizes that the employer is still FORCING the employee.

Mandating a vaccine be taken is not only potentially dangerous to employees... but may completely undermine the publics confidence in the medical community and in vaccines in general.
In any event you don;t know if the jackass is going to be around our not. I guarantee you thought Hillary was going to win too. The point being is that the controversy over the government and vaccines is not going to simply go away with Trump. The damage to the government credibility when it comes to science and healthcare has already been done. If a vaccine comes out and Biden is President and the US government begins mandating vaccination.. you are going to see a backlash of resistance against vaccination that will astound you. And we will get nowhere.
Some historical context for my argument.
ttps://www.discovermagazine.com/health/the-public-health-legacy-of-the-1976-swine-flu-outbreak

Not buying your analogy at all. I will tell you again: where I worked, at Kaiser, a very large HMO, everyone had a choice: get the flu shot or work elsewhere. To the best of my knowledge no one even complained about it, let alone sued the business. Everyone just put aside their petty issues with loss of choice and did what was required-and that was for a disease that is far less deadly. The same thing is likely to happen with a vaccine for Covid if Biden wins. He will not be able to force states to mandate that people who work with the public get the vaccine, but he can certainly make it very painful if they choose not to do it. Too bad about your little loss of choice...its for the public good, assuming the vaccine is safe as far as is known and effective. Again: you do not have the right to endanger other people unless you have no choice.

 

[Ethel2]

Biden is on record as dismissing the Vaccine being created by scientists to win this war with CV19 virus. He will ban using it.

Let me understand you: Biden is on record as being opposed to a vaccine? Got a link? Or did you just make that up.

 

[Robertinfremont]

Let me understand you: Biden is on record as being opposed to a vaccine? Got a link? Or did you just make that up.

This is your link and let's all enjoy it at the same time.

 

[Ethel2]

This is your link and let's all enjoy it at the same time.

Pretty funny. He said: "He has spoken with scientists and he is profoundly grateful to them for making sure a safe and effective vaccine becomes a reality as soon as possible"-a direct quote. I am not going to listen to the whole 23 minutes and 40 seconds of it. Biden said that he is in favor of a swift free vaccine. There is no quote that he has said in there that he is opposed to a vaccine, at least until it is shown to be safe and effective. I will not waste my time trying to find your quote buried in there somewhere. No sane person is opposed to a safe and effective vaccine for this. He also said "I trust vaccines; I trust the scientists; but I DON'T TRUST DONALD TRUMP"

So yeah, lets have fun with it together.

 

[Robertinfremont]

Pretty funny. He said: "He has spoken with scientists and he is profoundly grateful to them for making sure a safe and effective vaccine becomes a reality as soon as possible"-a direct quote. I am not going to listen to the whole 23 minutes and 40 seconds of it. Biden said that he is in favor of a swift free vaccine. There is no quote that he has said in there that he is opposed to a vaccine, at least until it is shown to be safe and effective. I will not waste my time trying to find your quote buried in there somewhere. No sane person is opposed to a safe and effective vaccine for this. He also said "I trust vaccines; I trust the scientists; but I DON'T TRUST DONALD TRUMP"

So yeah, lets have fun with it together.

Watch moment of his press conference where he walks off mumbling to himself leaving the press holding their breaths. Nothing he proposed is different than what Trump is presently doing.

 

[Robertinfremont]

Pretty funny. He said: "He has spoken with scientists and he is profoundly grateful to them for making sure a safe and effective vaccine becomes a reality as soon as possible"-a direct quote. I am not going to listen to the whole 23 minutes and 40 seconds of it. Biden said that he is in favor of a swift free vaccine. There is no quote that he has said in there that he is opposed to a vaccine, at least until it is shown to be safe and effective. I will not waste my time trying to find your quote buried in there somewhere. No sane person is opposed to a safe and effective vaccine for this. He also said "I trust vaccines; I trust the scientists; but I DON'T TRUST DONALD TRUMP"

So yeah, lets have fun with it together.

Watch every moment of Biden waffling to get the full impact of his failure If Biden was president today, his plans would fail as he claims Trumps plans will.

 

[Ethel2]

Watch every moment of Biden waffling to get the full impact of his failure If Biden was president today, his plans would fail as he claims Trumps plans will.

Still waiting for a link where Biden is quoted as saying that he is opposed to a vaccine....lacking that, I will assume you made it up and gave me a link to distract me. Give me the exact quote and then the proper link.

He said he trusts the scientists, but that he doesn't trust the jackass. Fair assessment, I would say.

 

[snakestretcher]

What? Aye we don't need to look far for an idiot!
Freedom? Advice given? Are you a ruddy imbecile...... they haven't even invented a vaccine. And giving the likes of Bill Gates who is more than 50% of the WHO, a mandate to make money? That, Bill Gates a well know eugenics proponent as was his parents! Give him the right to inject our loved ones with a drug that he himself and his company have been absolved of any damage it can do to your loved one!
The masks are for the weak of mind, any virus will pass through any mask, or enter any mask, but out of respect for my fellow countrymen and women, willingly wear a mask!
But like every Tory I have ever known, and intensely disliked...... you boil it down to money, your god! Fine them, the majority of those fellow countrymen in England, are knocking on poverties doors.... they have no money! Did you not read the United Nations report, your government is starving your nation! Just for the fun of it!

Are the midges bothering you or something?

 

[Luther]

They aren't, at least not for civilians. But your kid isn't going to school without them.

But your kid isn't going to school without them.

And the no complement will be forced to pay for these schools?

 

[Luce]

And the no complement will be forced to pay for these schools?

Yes. That is in fact how it works.

 

[Good4Nothin]

Why give people a choice? Since it's in the national interest to have people vaccinated then shouldn't president Biden, being the only person capable of putting an end to this global catastrophe, just mandate vaccinations and enforce the mandate by whatever means necessary? I mean, that's what would be best for America, right?

That is insane.

 

[Lutherf]

That is insane.

It is. Not only that, it's kind of scary that the way things are in the US these days we could see a Democrat administration make exactly that kind of recommendation.

 

[PirateMk1]

Yes. That is in fact how it works.

I pay for school in my property taxes. My children dont use it except but once or twice a week and only for extracurriculars and socializing. While the school is considered good by public school standards, I want my children to have a superior education which no public school cannot provide. TBH why anybody would deliberately subject their children to public school I have no clue.

 

[Luce]

That is insane.

It will never happen. You always have the right to decline medical care.

Doesn't mean that they can't hang all kinds of restrictions on people, but nobody can MAKE you get vaccinated.

 

[Ethel2]

It is. Not only that, it's kind of scary that the way things are in the US these days we could see a Democrat administration make exactly that kind of recommendation.

It won't be a "recommendation". It will be a mandate. And not everyone will need to be vaccinated-just those people who have anything to do with the public. And its only if the vaccine has proven safe and effective.

 

[jaeger19]

Not buying your analogy at all. I will tell you again: where I worked, at Kaiser, a very large HMO, everyone had a choice: get the flu shot or work elsewhere. To the best of my knowledge no one even complained about it, let alone sued the business. Everyone just put aside their petty issues with loss of choice and did what was required-and that was for a disease that is far less deadly. The same thing is likely to happen with a vaccine for Covid if Biden wins. He will not be able to force states to mandate that people who work with the public get the vaccine, but he can certainly make it very painful if they choose not to do it. Too bad about your little loss of choice...its for the public good, assuming the vaccine is safe as far as is known and effective. Again: you do not have the right to endanger other people unless you have no choice.

Well.. you have a lot there that is wrong.
First: your premise is that lots of stupid people are out there and they need to be mandated by the government to get the vaccine because they are too stupid. Apparently.. you think that includes all the people that work at Kaiser. They must have all been stupid people.. that if it wasn;t for Kaiser mandating the flu vaccine.. they wouldn;t have gotten it.
I on the other hand.. submit that the reason that no one had any "petty issues"..was because they saw the value of getting a vaccine.. and so Kaisers mandate was completely and utterly unnecessary. If anything.. Kaisers mandate probable put some people at risk.. because some of those employees might have been people that could have been reactive to the vaccine.
As far as the public good. As I already presented to you and linked to.. good studies show that mandating flu vaccines for healthcare workers shows little to no significant effect over places that do not mandate.

Second.. IF people were truly "endangering people".. if they didn;t get a vaccination... well then... there SHOULD BE NO EXEMPTIONS FOR THOSE PEOPLE!!. The fact that you are willing to allow "some" people to go without vaccination.. shows that its not really about safety... its really about whether you think a persons belief fits with yours.
The fact is.. vaccination protects the person who gets vaccinated. Those who chose not to be vaccinated.. are not negatively impacting those that chose to get vaccinated.

 

[Ethel2]

Well.. you have a lot there that is wrong.
First: your premise is that lots of stupid people are out there and they need to be mandated by the government to get the vaccine because they are too stupid. Apparently.. you think that includes all the people that work at Kaiser. They must have all been stupid people.. that if it wasn;t for Kaiser mandating the flu vaccine.. they wouldn;t have gotten it.
I on the other hand.. submit that the reason that no one had any "petty issues"..was because they saw the value of getting a vaccine.. and so Kaisers mandate was completely and utterly unnecessary. If anything.. Kaisers mandate probable put some people at risk.. because some of those employees might have been people that could have been reactive to the vaccine.
As far as the public good. As I already presented to you and linked to.. good studies show that mandating flu vaccines for healthcare workers shows little to no significant effect over places that do not mandate.

Second.. IF people were truly "endangering people".. if they didn;t get a vaccination... well then... there SHOULD BE NO EXEMPTIONS FOR THOSE PEOPLE!!. The fact that you are willing to allow "some" people to go without vaccination.. shows that its not really about safety... its really about whether you think a persons belief fits with yours.
The fact is.. vaccination protects the person who gets vaccinated. Those who chose not to be vaccinated.. are not negatively impacting those that chose to get vaccinated.

I never said that the majority of people who work at Kaiser are dumbasses:the vast majority know how to behave. It is for the public good that the dumbasses need rules that must be followed.
Kaiser has this policy in place for a reason: if an employee becomes infected with influenza it could kill or make seriously ill one of our at risk patients.
Your problem is that you assume that through free choice everyone will make the correct choice and protect others. You DO NOT have the right to endanger others-even if it costs you to lose some of your precious perceived (but in reality nonexistent) freedom.

 

[jaeger19]

I never said that the majority of people who work at Kaiser are dumbasses:the vast majority know how to behave. It is for the public good that the dumbasses need rules that must be followed.
Kaiser has this policy in place for a reason: if an employee becomes infected with influenza it could kill or make seriously ill one of our at risk patients.
Your problem is that you assume that through free choice everyone will make the correct choice and protect others. You DO NOT have the right to endanger others-even if it costs you to lose some of your precious perceived (but in reality nonexistent) freedom.

Okay.. so if the majority of people don;t need to be mandated to take the vaccine. Then why do you need a mandate that could potentially put people at risk by interjecting a mandate in between what should be a decision between you and your doctor? Which is it? Did Kaiser have to mandate the flu vaccine because Kaiser employees including yourself were all dumbasses? Or was Kaisers mandate unnecessary because the vast majority "knew how to behave"? Do you see the intellectual disconnect with your premise?

I don;t have a problem. I understand science and medicine.. IF there is a effective and safe vaccine available for people. Then for the most part.. it doesn;t matter if some people choose to not take the vaccine. If you decide not to take the vaccine. for whatever reason.. and I do take the vaccine. Well then your decision doesn;t effect me. Pretty much, the only people that you could possibly "endangering".. are those like yourself that have chosen not to take the vaccine.
You keep saying "you don;t have the right to endanger others". Well.. two things about that. First.. if its true,,, that no one has a right to endanger others... then there should be NO EXCEPTIONS.. for people who can't have a vaccine for medical reasons. If they are truly a "danger to others"... well then they should be quarantined etc.. so that they cannot harm others. Otherwise they are dangerous.

Second.. if.. there is a safe and effective vaccine.. well then.. the only people that would "put in danger"... would be those that CHOOSE to not take the vaccine.

 

[Ethel2]

Okay.. so if the majority of people don;t need to be mandated to take the vaccine. Then why do you need a mandate that could potentially put people at risk by interjecting a mandate in between what should be a decision between you and your doctor? Which is it? Did Kaiser have to mandate the flu vaccine because Kaiser employees including yourself were all dumbasses? Or was Kaisers mandate unnecessary because the vast majority "knew how to behave"? Do you see the intellectual disconnect with your premise?

I don;t have a problem. I understand science and medicine.. IF there is a effective and safe vaccine available for people. Then for the most part.. it doesn;t matter if some people choose to not take the vaccine. If you decide not to take the vaccine. for whatever reason.. and I do take the vaccine. Well then your decision doesn;t effect me. Pretty much, the only people that you could possibly "endangering".. are those like yourself that have chosen not to take the vaccine.
You keep saying "you don;t have the right to endanger others". Well.. two things about that. First.. if its true,,, that no one has a right to endanger others... then there should be NO EXCEPTIONS.. for people who can't have a vaccine for medical reasons. If they are truly a "danger to others"... well then they should be quarantined etc.. so that they cannot harm others. Otherwise they are dangerous.

Second.. if.. there is a safe and effective vaccine.. well then.. the only people that would "put in danger"... would be those that CHOOSE to not take the vaccine.

As I said (again) the rules need to be in place because there is a minority of people out there who are dumbasses-and all it takes is a SINGLE dumbass to infect and kill a susceptible innocent person. Just one dumbass.Therefore, everyone gets vaccinated as a condition of continued employment. Those who cannot take the vaccine for medical reasons are furloughed until the pandemic is over-or they can work in a job where there is no contact with the public.
It’s really not that complicated-and its coming. Take that to the bank.