Manafort Accused of Sharing Trump Polling Data With Russian Associate (1 Viewer)

[Cardinal]

This is now the clearest evidence of direct collusion between the trump campaign and Russian intelligence during the election.

This is in spite of the fact that the Trump Tower meeting was itself collusion, along with, um....well...the fact that Trump publicly asked Russia to hack Clinton's emails.

Trump supporters have already moved the goal posts to "Manafort was pressured into falsely confessing to sharing the polling data" as well as "Polling data? Big deal." So if you're planning on changing trump supporter minds....seriously, don't bother.

WASHINGTON — As a top official in President Trump’s campaign, Paul Manafort shared political polling data with a business associate tied to Russian intelligence, according to a court filing unsealed on Tuesday. The document provided the clearest evidence to date that the Trump campaign may have tried to coordinate with Russians during the 2016 presidential race.

Mr. Manafort’s lawyers made the disclosure by accident, through a formatting error in a document filed to respond to charges that he had lied to prosecutors working for the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, after agreeing to cooperate with their investigation into Russian interference in the election.

The document also revealed that during the campaign, Mr. Manafort and his Russian associate, Konstantin V. Kilimnik, discussed a plan for peace in Ukraine. Throughout the campaign and the early days of the Trump administration, Russia and its allies were pushing various plans for Ukraine in the hope of gaining relief from American-led sanctions imposed after it annexed Crimea from Ukraine.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/08/...tion=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

 

[Samhain]

What polling data was shared? What coordinated outcome is only possible with polling data?

 

[Obscurity]

I am sure he did.

 

[year2late]

This is now the clearest evidence of direct collusion between the trump campaign and Russian intelligence during the election.

This is in spite of the fact that the Trump Tower meeting was itself collusion, along with, um....well...the fact that Trump publicly asked Russia to hack Clinton's emails.

Trump supporters have already moved the goal posts to "Manafort was pressured into falsely confessing to sharing the polling data" as well as "Polling data? Big deal." So if you're planning on changing trump supporter minds....seriously, don't bother.



https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/08/...tion=click&module=Top Stories&pgtype=Homepage

Countdown to the usual "collusion is not a crime"

3...2...1...

 

[Cardinal]

What polling data was shared? What coordinated outcome is only possible with polling data?

...and the goal posts move from "prove collusion happened" to "prove the collusion was significant enough to impress me."

In a few months it'll be, "Prove that Trump personally hacked into voting computers and changed their numbers."

In a few months after that it'll be, "Okay, so Trump actually did hack into voting computers and change their numbers. Prove that it was enough to change the outcome of the election."

Anybody following trump supporters down these bottomless rabbit holes are engaging in masochism.

 

[Samhain]

...and the goal posts move from "prove collusion happened" to "prove the collusion was significant enough to impress me."

In a few months it'll be, "Prove that Trump personally hacked into voting computers and changed their numbers."

In a few months after that it'll be, "Okay, so Trump actually did hack into voting computers and changed their numbers. Prove that it was enough to change the outcome of the election."

Anybody following trump supporters down these bottomless rabbit holes are engaging in masochism.

I'm asking what do you think was the outcome of the sharing? i.e. what was the point

 

[dobieg]

Your side gets more comical with every passing day.


I know there's some nefarious point you're trying to make so why don't you make it? If all this is true, in what way would Trump's campaign manager sharing some polling data with some obscure Russian prove Trump was colluding with Russia and what exactly was he colluding for? To keep someone with Russian ties up to date on how the election looked 6 months before the election?

 

[Cardinal]

I'm asking what do you think was the outcome of the sharing? i.e. what was the point

To quantify the outcome is to agree to your shifting of the goal posts by attempting to convince you that the sharing was significant. I don't need to do that. Trump supporters wanted evidence of collusion, and now they have it.

 

[dobieg]

...and the goal posts move from "prove collusion happened" to "prove the collusion was significant enough to impress me."

In a few months it'll be, "Prove that Trump personally hacked into voting computers and changed their numbers."

In a few months after that it'll be, "Okay, so Trump actually did hack into voting computers and change their numbers. Prove that it was enough to change the outcome of the election."

Anybody following trump supporters down these bottomless rabbit holes are engaging in masochism.

And your side will be like, Trump said Russia. Collusion!!

 

[Samhain]

To quantify the outcome is to agree to your shifting of the goal posts by attempting to convince you that the sharing was significant. I don't need to do that. Collusion happened, and that's the end of that.

Thank you for explaining what collusion is to you.

 

[iguanaman]

I'm asking what do you think was the outcome of the sharing? i.e. what was the point

Strategic targeting on social media by Russian trolls in 3 Blue States that changed the outcome of the election. Also it's a crime. Our President is a criminal that is beholding to Putin. In other words, it's exactly what we knew it was from the start.

 

[Cardinal]

Thank you for explaining what collusion is to you.

That's another attempt to move the goal post: "Convince me that we share the same definition of collusion. Oh, and I won't share my own definition because I may need to move the goal posts again next week."

Again, anybody following trump supporters down these bottomless rabbit holes is engaging in masochism.

 

[Hypothetical]

...and the goal posts move from "prove collusion happened" to "prove the collusion was significant enough to impress me."

In a few months it'll be, "Prove that Trump personally hacked into voting computers and changed their numbers."

In a few months after that it'll be, "Okay, so Trump actually did hack into voting computers and change their numbers. Prove that it was enough to change the outcome of the election."

Anybody following trump supporters down these bottomless rabbit holes are engaging in masochism.

nothing has moved at all, we need to know what kind of polling data,, sheesh, the guy can talk about election polling data from rasmussen with whoever he wants, how's that a frikking crime? thats stupid.

 

[Cardinal]

nothing has moved at all, we need to know what kind of polling data,, sheesh, the guy can talk about election polling data from rasmussen with whoever he wants, how's that a frikking crime? thats stupid.

The Trump campaign has now been shown to have colluded with Russian intelligence.

 

[Samhain]

That's another attempt to move the goal post: "Convince me that we share the same definition of collusion. Oh, and I won't share my own definition because I may need to move the goal posts again next week."

Again, anybody following trump supporters down these bottomless rabbit holes are engaging in masochism.

I appreciate your response with your opinion.

 

[Hypothetical]

from the article:

"Most of the data was public, but some of it was developed by a private polling firm working for the campaign, according to the person."

oh MY GOD he shared their own polling data along with public data with someone else, WHAT A CRIME!!

collusion shmallusion, that is the longest reach i've seen yet.

come back when you find he shared a snickers bar with Putin.

 

[Slavister]

I'm asking what do you think was the outcome of the sharing? i.e. what was the point

To know which voting systems to hack.

 

[Slavister]

oh MY GOD he shared their own polling data along with public data with someone else, WHAT A CRIME!!

Yes it is if it's used to rig the election.

BTW, they had to steal Clinton's proprietary models. Trump was willing to just give those out.

 

[Lesh]

from the article:

"Most of the data was public, but some of it was developed by a private polling firm working for the campaign, according to the person."

oh MY GOD he shared their own polling data along with public data with someone else, WHAT A CRIME!!

collusion shmallusion, that is the longest reach i've seen yet.

come back when you find he shared a snickers bar with Putin.

but some of it was developed by a private polling firm working for the campaign,

Read that slowly

 

[Taylor]

I hear that RealClearPolitics shared massive amounts of polling data with the Russians in 2016.

 

[Verax]

This is only the tip of the iceberg. The Mueller report is going to be devastating. The only question left is, will Trump be allowed to cut a deal and avoid prison, or are they going to go all the way?

 

[Slyfox696]

What polling data was shared? What coordinated outcome is only possible with polling data?

Trump supporters: Show me evidence of collusion
The rest of the sane world: Here is buckets and buckets and buckets of evidence of collusion
Trump supporters: "It depends on what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is."


If you cannot figure out how internal polling data being shared by the campaign manager of one presidential candidate with the intelligence services of the hostile foreign government who attacked the US election on behalf of that candidate is important, then you clearly are not going to be interested in any answer provided to you. Whether it is cognitive dissonance or blatant dishonesty, I could not care less, you clearly will not accept any answer you are provided.

 

[Mach]

from the article:"Most of the data was public, but some of it was developed by a private polling firm working for the campaign, according to the person."oh MY GOD he shared their own polling data along with public data with someone else, WHAT A CRIME!!.

So the Trump campaign secretly shared private, election related data with the Russians, as the Russians were engaged in a massive, illegal, coordinated attempt to sway the election in favor of Donald Trump.

They also lied about it (the campaign has repeatedly denied any/all such contacts in public).
Manafort was willing to commit a felony in trying to cover this up.

That could easy be participating in a conspiracy against the united states, complete with intent in the form of secrecy, obfuscation, culminating in making false statements in an attempt to cover it up. They could have been sharing all public data, it's irrelevant. The data shared is not the crime, although there may be national security concerns here, and/or civil issues with what they shared. But materially coordinating to commit the crime of Russia interfering with our election, is the potential crime. The data itself doesn't have to be illegal.

 

[iguanaman]

from the article:

"Most of the data was public, but some of it was developed by a private polling firm working for the campaign, according to the person."

oh MY GOD he shared their own polling data along with public data with someone else, WHAT A CRIME!!

collusion shmallusion, that is the longest reach i've seen yet.

come back when you find he shared a snickers bar with Putin.

Even the data was stolen from Facebook by Cambridge Analytica. It is a criminal conspiracy.

Last month, The New York Times and the UK's Guardian and Observer newspapers broke news the social networking giant was duped by researchers, who reportedly gained access to the data of millions of Facebook users and then may have misused it for political ads during the 2016 US presidential election. Facebook said it was investigating the reports, which involved data consultancy Cambridge Analytica.

https://www.cnet.com/news/facebook-cambridge-analytica-data-mining-and-trump-what-you-need-to-know/

 

[trouble13]

...and the goal posts move from "prove collusion happened" to "prove the collusion was significant enough to impress me."

In a few months it'll be, "Prove that Trump personally hacked into voting computers and changed their numbers."

In a few months after that it'll be, "Okay, so Trump actually did hack into voting computers and change their numbers. Prove that it was enough to change the outcome of the election."

Anybody following trump supporters down these bottomless rabbit holes are engaging in masochism.

Is that what you believe, that the voting machines were hacked and the voting totals were altered?

I'm curious because I know a very good freind pf mine believes that and until he told me that I wasnt aware that anyone thought that happened.

If that is a real concern I am curious why there wasnt a larger outcry from people demanding the states cooperate with the election commission Trumps administration formed after the elections.

I have been under the impression that the allegation has been that Russia tricked people into voting for trump by using stolen data from the DNC and spreading propaganda on the internet.

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