Life of Constitution!

[ttwtt78640]

It's kinda funny that complain about this little bit, but this little bit provides a solid proof that the consitutiton is well designed because it allows for change as needed.

The only problem is the number of people out there that do not want to use the mechanisms provided for that change.

Indeed. Many now want a ruling made by 5/4 of our nine robed umpires to serve as a constitutional amendment, using analogies or "kind of like" arguments that require no specific wording in the constitution or its amendments to assert "legal fact" in a SCOTUS case.

Roe vs. Wade being a perfect example; abortion being neither mentioned as a federal power nor an individual right is CORRECTLY left to the states, but NO, says the SCOTUS, that found a "privacy" EXCUSE to say that an elective "medical" procedure may not be regulated by the state, kind of, sort of, until (MAYBE?) after the "first trimester" beyond conception; that is a load of manure fabricated out of thin air with absolutely no basis in our constitution.

Another magical legal assumption is the introduction of a "compelling state interest" test to make ANY state law subject to being tossed by the SCOTUS, if they do not see that particular "smell test" as being passed. The "SSM ban" comes into play here, if SSM is not allowed (included in state marriage law), then it is deemed "banned", if there is no "compelling state interest" found by the SCOTUS, then "poof" we have a NEW CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT to SSM! No need to amend the constitution, as we did for securing the womens right to vote, changing (establishing) the voting age, ending slavery, ending racial voting discrimination or outlawing a poll tax, seems to exist any more.

Recreational drug use bans are another "mystical" area of constitutional law. It took TWO constitutional amendments to deal with alcohol, used as a recreational drug, one to ban it and another to lift the ban yet, curiously, NO constitutional action at all to ban marijuana, cocaine, herione, opium, meth, ecstasy, LSD or any number of "controlled and dangerous" substances; now we just add or delete them from the national "no no" list and they are constitutionally unprotected/protected, left to the states or just plain ignored if that suits the SCOTUS on that given day.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

It is far too flexible, and easily subject to 'interpretations' of courts.

Yeah - it is subject to interpretations of the court.

Thank heavens because last I looked this isn't the late 1700's anymore

 

[sawyerloggingon]

If the constitution does not survive, America does not survive. We would be a different country.

 

[jet57]

Is the Constitution of the United States good enough to survive forever? Why?

In my personal opinion I think it wont survive forever, maybe way in the future another convention will happen and more compromises will be made and more amendments will be added/edited/deleted from the constitution. Meaning it won't stay the same as it is. Why? Because of fast growing technology and the way of living in the future may not fit the style of living in the past which is around 1700/1800s. Also Amendments like the right to bear arms I think is getting outdated. Recent article I read talks of how the police in blames the gun more than the gangs. So maybe in the future this gets removed or edited.

As long as we believe it is the supreme law of the land it'll be around as is. I think it's posslible that II Amendment might be repealed and some others might be altered; but . . .

 

[jet57]

It's kinda funny that complain about this little bit, but this little bit provides a solid proof that the consitutiton is well designed because it allows for change as needed.

The only problem is the number of people out there that do not want to use the mechanisms provided for that change.

I cannot diagree with that at all.

 

[zstep18]

It is far too flexible, and easily subject to 'interpretations' of courts.

That's a good thing. The Constitution has been subject to the 'interpretations' of courts since the beginning. Those who have taken a strict interpretation of the Constitution have been on the wrong side of history.

 

[ttwtt78640]

That's a good thing. The Constitution has been subject to the 'interpretations' of courts since the beginning. Those who have taken a strict interpretation of the Constitution have been on the wrong side of history.

What "interpretation" made education into a federal power? What "interpretation" makes requiring taking a class ($69 to $100), passing a test/background investigation and paying a non-refundable "application fee" ($140) for a "CCW permit" not "infringement" of a right to bear (carry) arms, yet requiring only showing a valid, state issued, photo ID to vote (only once and only as yourself) in an election is a somehow a "discriminatory burden" only in SOME states?

 

[Tigger]

The US Constitution is a flawed document whose time WILL eventually end. Don't get me wrong, the Founders made a wonderful attempt but they were incredibly naive about the true nature of men. In fact many of them commented on the failings of the document after it was approved. Ben Franklin especially. I believe that you will eventually see another revolution in this country and if/when that revolution succeeds you will see an entirely new and much different Constitution drafted to replace the previous document.

 

[zstep18]

What "interpretation" made education into a federal power? What "interpretation" makes requiring taking a class ($69 to $100), passing a test/background investigation and paying a non-refundable "application fee" ($140) for a "CCW permit" not "infringement" of a right to bear (carry) arms, yet requiring only showing a valid, state issued, photo ID to vote (only once and only as yourself) in an election is a somehow a "discriminatory burden" only in SOME states?

I never said the Supreme Court was infallible. I simply said the Constitution has always been interpreted by the courts and is not a new thing. In addition to relying on "interpretations", judges must also rely on precedent when making decisions.

 

[zstep18]

What "interpretation" makes requiring taking a class ($69 to $100), passing a test/background investigation and paying a non-refundable "application fee" ($140) for a "CCW permit" not "infringement" of a right to bear (carry) arms

The Supreme Court has recently ruled in favor of the 2nd Amendment. Are you saying that criminals and the mentally ill should be allowed to own firearms?

 

[PrometheusBound]

Seeing as how they intentionally included a process for amending it -- yes.

Using the very loose logic they've always used, the Supreme Court can interpret Amendments any way they want. People will have to wise up to the fact that the Constitution despises them. "We the people" really means "Those few of us who have power, not you people."

 

[PrometheusBound]

That's a good thing. The Constitution has been subject to the 'interpretations' of courts since the beginning.

Obviously not, or the Supreme Court would not have had to use Marbury v Madison twelve years later to make a declaration of its own supremacy over all our laws. In that declaration of our dependence, they begged the question by interpreting the Constitution as giving them the right to interpret the Constitution! President Jefferson was outraged, but he had to be careful about picking his fights against the anti-democratic believers in a pre-ordained governing elite. Luckily, he was able to intimidate them into not canceling the Louisiana Purchase, which was unquestionably unConstitutional.

 

[PrometheusBound]

The Constitution is a fascist document, an Iron Heel treating the majority like a cigarette butt mashed on the sidewalk. It appeals to power-worshipping religious fanatics, with their cognitive dissonance of despising mankind while giving certain men absolute power over them. The Constitution establishes the secular equivalent of a theocracy. Slavish types treat it with the same self-despising awe that they do the Ten Commandments, with the Founding Fathers worshipped like the Twelve Apostles. America was prevented from growing up politically by such an omnipotent piece of paper treating people, proud and independent outside of the political prison, like wild and stupid children needing a beating by their government and those who hire that government to tame them into obedient serfdom.

 

[Tigger]

The Constitution is a fascist document, an Iron Heel treating the majority like a cigarette butt mashed on the sidewalk. It appeals to power-worshipping religious fanatics, with their cognitive dissonance of despising mankind while giving certain men absolute power over them. The Constitution establishes the secular equivalent of a theocracy. Slavish types treat it with the same self-despising awe that they do the Ten Commandments, with the Founding Fathers worshipped like the Twelve Apostles. America was prevented from growing up politically by such an omnipotent piece of paper treating people, proud and independent outside of the political prison, like wild and stupid children needing a beating by their government and those who hire that government to tame them into obedient serfdom.

Interesting, considering that I'd suggest the exact opposite is true..... that the document is too maleable and easy to either change or simply ignore.

 

[TheNextEra]

The Constitution is a fascist document, an Iron Heel treating the majority like a cigarette butt mashed on the sidewalk. It appeals to power-worshipping religious fanatics, with their cognitive dissonance of despising mankind while giving certain men absolute power over them. The Constitution establishes the secular equivalent of a theocracy. Slavish types treat it with the same self-despising awe that they do the Ten Commandments, with the Founding Fathers worshipped like the Twelve Apostles. America was prevented from growing up politically by such an omnipotent piece of paper treating people, proud and independent outside of the political prison, like wild and stupid children needing a beating by their government and those who hire that government to tame them into obedient serfdom.

So I assume you are writing from prison then, because as a fascist document surely you are in prison because you have no freedoms right?

 

[PrometheusBound]

So I assume you are writing from prison then, because as a fascist document surely you are in prison because you have no freedoms right?

I gave myself the freedom to spit on your shrine.

 

[TheNextEra]

I gave myself the freedom to spit on your shrine.

And the constitution grants you the right to do that without being jailed. Yeah that's fascism alright :roll:

 

[PrometheusBound]

And the constitution grants you the right to do that without being jailed. Yeah that's fascism alright :roll:

It is if that's all you can do instead of liberating us from omnipotent commandments preached by the Supreme Court. Legislation and referenda are democratic; having a tribunal being able to veto our decisions is fascist.

And the Constitution doesn't grant me any right I as a human being should already have. You might as well say that the Constitution grants me the right to breathe and think. Any protection of natural rights should be handled by voting. For our decisions to have to "pass muster" sounds pretty fascist to me.

 

[Tigger]

Prometheus, the problem with your philosophy on this is very simple.....

The VAST MAJORITY of human beings on this planet are too stupid and/or unwise to make proper and appropriate decisions for themselves. It's pretty much been that way since the beginning of time. Therefore we need a set of rules and boundaries set down by a higher power (religion, government, etc....) in order for society to survive. Anarchy is not a useful concept in a society as large as the human race is. It just doesn't work.

 

[Surtr]

The Constitution is a fascist document

You obviously have no idea what fascism is, then.

an Iron Heel treating the majority like a cigarette butt mashed on the sidewalk. It appeals to power-worshipping religious fanatics, with their cognitive dissonance of despising mankind while giving certain men absolute power over them. The Constitution establishes the secular equivalent of a theocracy. Slavish types treat it with the same self-despising awe that they do the Ten Commandments, with the Founding Fathers worshipped like the Twelve Apostles. America was prevented from growing up politically by such an omnipotent piece of paper treating people, proud and independent outside of the political prison, like wild and stupid children needing a beating by their government and those who hire that government to tame them into obedient serfdom.

You've never read the US Constitution, have you?

 

[Surtr]

I gave myself the freedom to spit on your shrine.

...........

 

[TheNextEra]

It is if that's all you can do instead of liberating us from omnipotent commandments preached by the Supreme Court. Legislation and referenda are democratic; having a tribunal being able to veto our decisions is fascist.

And the Constitution doesn't grant me any right I as a human being should already have. You might as well say that the Constitution grants me the right to breathe and think. Any protection of natural rights should be handled by voting. For our decisions to have to "pass muster" sounds pretty fascist to me.

You have absolutely no clue about what real fascism is. The fact you can say what you are saying without being jailed is proof that the consitution is not fascist.

But hey, have fun with your little rant, I have little interest in discussing anything further with you since you cannot grasp what true fascism is.

 

[PrometheusBound]

Prometheus, the problem with your philosophy on this is very simple.....

The VAST MAJORITY of human beings on this planet are too stupid and/or unwise to make proper and appropriate decisions for themselves. It's pretty much been that way since the beginning of time. Therefore we need a set of rules and boundaries set down by a higher power (religion, government, etc....) in order for society to survive. Anarchy is not a useful concept in a society as large as the human race is. It just doesn't work.

Your self-centered contempt for the rest of us is the same delusion that has empowered all fascists since the beginning of time. These elites with their self-serving commandments are themselves too stupid and/or unwise to make proper and appropriate decisions for the rest of us despised underlings. Only self-hating people would submit to the unrestrained power that reveals the forbidden thought that authoritarianism is anarchy at the top.

 

[Surtr]

Your self-centered contempt for the rest of us is the same delusion that has empowered all fascists since the beginning of time. These elites with their self-serving commandments are themselves too stupid and/or unwise to make proper and appropriate decisions for the rest of us despised underlings. Only self-hating people would submit to the unrestrained power that reveals the forbidden thought that authoritarianism is anarchy at the top.

Quit using the word fascist, because you have demonstrated time and time again that you have no understanding of what fascism is.

 

[American]

Oh, I haven't written anything terribly important... just legislation for the District that affects hundreds of millions of dollars... I wonder if you've ever done anything important like that. Oh, and I'm working on a law review article right now about an upcoming Supreme Court case. I'll let you know when it gets published. Doubly so if it gets cited in any of the briefs.

I don't sit there criticizing it like you. Bicameral to represent both the people and the states, but I'm sure you knew that. What I'm happy that you mentioned was its "fixed form" which goes for the document as a whole. It's a standard placed in the ground that never moves, unless by a certain process and no other. We don't change the color of the stripes on our flag or the number of stars on it, based on public sentiment or personal whims. Likewise the Constitution sits firm as a standard by which we measure our laws.