Libertarians, Tea Partiers and Oligarchy

[Geo Patric]

"The political action committee for Koch Industries . . . spent $2.5 million in [the last] elections. . ." (NY Times)

mmm... well... SCOTUS says that is ok... and one would expect that, with two justices, Scalia and Thomas, joining a private, secretive conference sponsored by Billionaire Tea Party financiers to discuss EXACTLY that issue... they might. After all brothers Charles and David Koch "were among the main beneficiaries of the Supreme Court’s decision in the Citizens United case". It was Citizen's United that brought the case to the Court... Citizens United was founded and is principally financed by.... the brothers Koch, Charles and David.

" Americans for Prosperity, a conservative group that the Koch brothers founded, is believed to have spent tens of millions more in the campaign to support conservative candidates" (ibid)

this has stirred up s bit of controversy. "Tea Partiers, Republicans, and protectors of public morality are right about corruption in government. The only problem is they are looking in the wrong place.

Antonin Scalia is the latest to cross the line with an announcement that he plans to address the Tea Party Caucus in the House of Representatives." (Salem News).

The Kochs are not new to politics, indoctrinated by their father (a governing member of the John Birch Society), "David Koch ran to the right of Reagan as vice president", (got the "vice" part right, anyway), "on the 1980 Libertarian ticket, his campaign called for the abolition not just of Social Security, federal regulatory agencies and welfare but also of the F.B.I., the C.I.A., and public schools — in other words, any government enterprise that would either inhibit his business profits or increase his taxes. He hasn’t changed." (New Yorker)

so.... who is working to destroy America... the guy the people elected or the guy who purchased a political party, may have purchased a Supreme Court decision and is trying to purchase the downfall of the guy that the people elected?

geo.

 

[Goshin]

Yes, the Tea Party has a secret agenda, muwhahahahahaha.... and we're recruiting SCJ's, muwhahahahaha.... and anyone who can do a good "e-vul laugh", muwhahahahaha....

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

so.... who is working to destroy America... the guy the people elected or the guy who purchased a political party, may have purchased a Supreme Court decision and is trying to purchase the downfall of the guy that the people elected?

All of them. They're just trying to destroy our country in different ways.

 

[Geo Patric]

Yes, the Tea Party has a secret agenda, muwhahahahahaha.... and we're recruiting SCJ's, muwhahahahaha.... and anyone who can do a good "e-vul laugh", muwhahahahaha....

no, the tea potty is just a bunch of unhappy people looking for salvation from their unhappiness. The Kochs, though, HAVE an agenda. Their agenda is filling the heads of all those unhappy people with bunk about salvation in order to garner support for their getting richer while denying the means of well being to MOST of the rest of us.

geo.

 

[Geo Patric]

The billionaire brothers David and Charles Koch no longer sit outside Washington's political establishment, isolated by their uncompromising conservatism. Instead, they are now at the center of Republican power, a change most evident in the new makeup of the House Energy and Commerce Committee.

Koch Industries and its employees formed the largest single oil and gas donor to members of the panel. . . Nine of the 12 new Republicans on the panel signed a pledge distributed by a Koch-founded advocacy group — Americans for Prosperity — to oppose the Obama administration's proposal to regulate greenhouse gases. Of the six GOP freshman lawmakers on the panel, five benefited from the group's separate advertising and grass-roots activity during the 2010 campaign.

When the 85 freshman GOP lawmakers marched into the Capitol on Jan. 5 as part of the new Republican House majority, David Koch was there too. . .[he] had an appointment with a staff member of the new speaker, Rep. John A. Boehner

- Koch brothers: Charles and David Koch in Washington's Republican spotlight - latimes.com
The Tea Party has eviscerated the republicans... and sold themselves to incipient oligarchs.

The Supreme Court ruled in 2007 that the EPA had the power to regulate greenhouse gases as air pollutants

not that THAT matters... we all know the Koch's wield considerable 'influence' over certain SCOTUS justices, too.

geo.

 

[Ed Gein]

The Koch Bros. are you sure their first names are not Heinrich and Adolf?

First of all, read(READ) the SCOTUS record on Citizens Untied. Then apologize to everyone here for shooting off your mouth in ignorance, and apologize to your parents for being a zero.

 

[SheWolf]

I am not sure if I like Scalia's behaviour or not...

 

[Concept]

"The political action committee for Koch Industries . . . spent $2.5 million in [the last] elections. . ." (NY Times)

mmm... well... SCOTUS says that is ok... and one would expect that, with two justices, Scalia and Thomas, joining a private, secretive conference sponsored by Billionaire Tea Party financiers to discuss EXACTLY that issue... they might. After all brothers Charles and David Koch "were among the main beneficiaries of the Supreme Court’s decision in the Citizens United case". It was Citizen's United that brought the case to the Court... Citizens United was founded and is principally financed by.... the brothers Koch, Charles and David.

" Americans for Prosperity, a conservative group that the Koch brothers founded, is believed to have spent tens of millions more in the campaign to support conservative candidates" (ibid)

this has stirred up s bit of controversy. "Tea Partiers, Republicans, and protectors of public morality are right about corruption in government. The only problem is they are looking in the wrong place.

Antonin Scalia is the latest to cross the line with an announcement that he plans to address the Tea Party Caucus in the House of Representatives." (Salem News).

The Kochs are not new to politics, indoctrinated by their father (a governing member of the John Birch Society), "David Koch ran to the right of Reagan as vice president", (got the "vice" part right, anyway), "on the 1980 Libertarian ticket, his campaign called for the abolition not just of Social Security, federal regulatory agencies and welfare but also of the F.B.I., the C.I.A., and public schools — in other words, any government enterprise that would either inhibit his business profits or increase his taxes. He hasn’t changed." (New Yorker)

so.... who is working to destroy America... the guy the people elected or the guy who purchased a political party, may have purchased a Supreme Court decision and is trying to purchase the downfall of the guy that the people elected?

geo.

I will refer you to the biggest mistake legal academia has ever made. The interpretation of Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad

It was the precursor to Citizens United.

 

[Geo Patric]

I will refer you to the biggest mistake legal academia has ever made. The interpretation of Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad

It was the precursor to Citizens United.

i do not know that it WAS a mistake. More importantly, i do not think it relevant to the most recent decision.

the pretense that SCC v. SPR established the premise that corporations are citizens was appended to the decision by a court reporter... who just happened to have been a former President of a Railway company.... who might be siad to have been prejudiced. it was a personal opinion of Chief Justice Morrison Waite, as he later confirmed, but the opinions of a Justice, even the presiding justice on the side of the majority do not constitute 'legal precedent'.

the premise of corporate personhood was never actually part of the decision. The decision found that corporations are properly afforded 'equal protection" under the fourtheenth amendment. that is not the same thing as equating them as citizens. note that the SC did not cite the 13th amendment which qualifies citizenship.

that we provide legal protections to corporate (literally, "of more than one") entities is perfectly valid. but equal protection and equivalent status are not the same thing. foreigners, tourists... all are afforded equal protection, but not rights of citizneship.

the quesion HERE is. "Is the right to engage in election campaigning a Liberty, protected by law or a right of citizenship?". The recent SC decision seems to suggest that the answer the latter.

This Court is confronted with conflicting lines of precedent: [an dearlier decision]forbidding speech restrictions based on the speaker’s corporate identity... Distinguishing wealthy individuals from corporations based on the latter’s special advantages of, e.g., limited liability, does not suffice to allow laws prohibiting speech.

arguable but entirely reasonable. Where i think the justices fail is in the statement:

It is irrelevant for First Amendment purposes that corporate funds may “have little or no correlation to the public’s support for the corporation’s political ideas.”

"the public's"? no... not the general public, but the members of the corporation as an entity... employees, shareholders. The legal entity that is the corporation expresses political views that may (almost certainly WILL) be in opposition to many of its individuals and affects the political process in ways that are beyond the reach of those individuals, effectively negating their votes... in the case of those who don't vote (some 60% in hte last election), voting FOR them. this is a distortion of democratic process and a violation of the rights of those individuals whose actual voices are diminished or lost entirely

geo.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Awesome, more tea party lies and smears.

 

[Geo Patric]

The Koch Bros. are you sure their first names are not Heinrich and Adolf?

no, they are Charles and David. and.... aren't YOU one of the ones always complaing about folks invoking NAZISM to support their weak arguments? and... what the hell IS your argument, anyway?

First of all, read(READ) the SCOTUS record on Citizens Untied.

record? you might wanna be a little clearer. i have indeed read the decision. what aspect of that decision do you think my views demonstrate a lack of understanding?

Then apologize to everyone here...

nahh... don't think so. i at least have SAID something more than just a vague and unqualified derogation. and... speaking of which... nauthy, naughty... we are not supposed to make unflattering personal comments here... not that it matters... i mean, it is only ME that you are insulting.

geo.

 

[Mr. Invisible]

Yes, the Tea Party has a secret agenda, muwhahahahahaha.... and we're recruiting SCJ's, muwhahahahaha.... and anyone who can do a good "e-vul laugh", muwhahahahaha....

While I agree that the Tea Party does not have a secret agenda, it is known that the Koch brothers do fund the Tea Party, please look here, here and here

 

[Geo Patric]

secret even to the teat partiers..... they actually think THEY are leading a revolution when they are little more than sock puppets of an oligarch.

 

[American]

secret even to the teat partiers..... they actually think THEY are leading a revolution when they are little more than sock puppets of an oligarch.

Boy are you the clever little clover. Man, you better make sure that your identity is secret or they'll probably come after you because you know too much. Damn, they're probably eyeballing me now cause I'm helping you.

:fueltofir

 

[Barbbtx]

Yes, the Tea Party has a secret agenda, muwhahahahahaha.... and we're recruiting SCJ's, muwhahahahaha.... and anyone who can do a good "e-vul laugh", muwhahahahaha....

The Koch secret meetings are so secret the liberals can never find them to protest.......oh wait...

http://www.debatepolitics.com/bias-media/91661-left-calls-lynching-justice-thomas-wheres-media.html

 

[Barbbtx]

- New Jersey Local News - NJ.com

Political action committees for unions accounted for 68 percent of special interest campaign spending in 2009, doling out $24 million in direct donations and providing other help to state and local candidates, a report released today by the state’s campaign finance watchdog agency says.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/30/us/politics/30dems.html?_r=1
Ahhhhh....did some sugar daddy's hold back on the Dems in 2010? Is that why liberal panties are in a wad over the republican sugar daddy's?

Democratic donors like George Soros, the bête noire of the right, and his fellow billionaire Peter B. Lewis, who each gave more than $20 million to Democratic-oriented groups in the 2004 election, appear to be holding back so far.

Unions' big donations to Democrats--Rich Lowry - NYPOST.com

Just when we'd been told the Chamber of Commerce had bought the election, along comes the American Federation of State, Country and Municipal Employees to pour nearly $90 million into the campaign.
According to The Wall Street Journal, this makes the public-sector union the biggest spender of all the outside groups. The National Education Association and the Service Employees International Union rank among the top five. Collectively, these three unions representing millions of public workers -- only the SEIU is majority private -- are devoting an estimated $170 million to an election Democrats insist that they are losing because of the nefarious influence of outside money.

I really don't know what all the fuss is over the Koch bros.
I thought liberals were for a more level playing field? For years they have had George Soros and the Labor Unions and when we get the Koch bro they want to start hanging people.

 

[Geo Patric]

..
I thought liberals were for a more level playing field? For years they have had George Soros and the Labor Unions and when we get the Koch bro they want to start hanging people.

perhaps, barb, you are kinda, sorta missing the point.

it is not that Koch gives money to causes he supports. one expects that. it is WHY he supports the issues he supports... good old fashioned ideology? i think not. Greed. Profit. Personal and Koch Industries profit.

it is not that Koch gives money, but HOW he does it... his donation to the arts... all brandish his name...and to political interests... in secret, hiding behind self created PACs none of which actually feature his name.

Soros spent a lotta money, up front, out loud to defeat George Bush. He did not hide behind fancy named 'community action' groups. his contributions had his name written all over them. NY. Times, Washington Post... anyone who was willing to sit still long enough to listen.
how many political parties are essentially created by Soros? Tea Party and Libertarian are Kochs own little bastard children. Cato Institute... how many people know that it was created by Charles Koch? central to Cato's mission? denying climate change and preserving the Koch oil wealth.

no, it is not that they give money to polital causes that bothers many. it is that they are so willing, even insistent upon hiding their politcal agenda... something it would be ridiculous to say of Soros. and that agenda includes increasing the wealth of the wealthy and the power of the powerful (essentially the same thing) while deceiving dopey discontents into thinking it was all their idea to begin with.

geo.

 

[DrunkenAsparagus]

Alright, my fellow revolutionaries... wait, hey Liberals, I heard that Wal-Mart is about to destroy a baby tiger sanctuary to make way for their new store that will be powered solely on the tears of orphans, in an hour. You should chain yourselves to something. Just don't let your hearts bleed all over my new Ferrari interior; it's covered in bald eagle chick down.
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OK, they're gone. Now, let's get down to business. Alright, I've got the fluoride for the drinking water, Goshin has the dynamite for the bridges, and Redress has gone so deep undercover in Media Matters that probably none of you actually know that it has actually killed and taken the form of George Soros, but we cannot do this alone. All of you need to take out your Rand Paul rose-tinted glasses, use those glasses to reflect sunlight to burn any of "those people," take the ashes and mix them with your sample of poor person blood, and pour the solution on the back of the Constitution to reveal the invisible ink. That will reveal to you the time and place where we will strike. Remember my fellow patriots, we need your support to take down the government so that we may sacrifice the hearts of the children of those dirty poor "people" to our corporate masters. I know you will not fail our masters.

 

[Cold Highway]

Actually the Kock brothers aren't exactly darlings in Libertarian circles as Lew Rockwell and co explain

Plutocratianism « LewRockwell.com Blog

As Robert Wenzel explains, though the vastly rich and powerful Koch Brothers use libertarian rhetoric, and even sometimes advocate good policies, it is all about greater power and riches for their family, and not about freedom. That is why almost none of the many Koch-controlled non-profits, media figures, and academics is for freedom, as versus freedom talk, and why the whole apparat can so easily ally itself with the neocons. It’s also why they’re so hostile to Ron Paul and his movement. But then, the Kochs have long wanted to be the new Rockefellers.

EconomicPolicyJournal.com: Americans for [Koch] Prosperity