Liberals, what would YOU do?

[Simpletruther]

You are a cop responding to a violent perp breaking a restraining in order. You know he has violent history and outstanding warrants.

He had physically attacked you, you apply a taser which and he still resists. You and partner draw your weapons and he continues to ignore you and walks to his car.

You are quite aware and have seen in training of dash cam films of fellow cops being killed by perps after “reaching in Their car”.


the perp reaches into the car.

What do you do? It takes about half a second for him to turn and fire. Do you wait and “take your chances” ?

What would you do?

You are also aware of the loss of small motor skills under extreme pressure that nearly everyone suffers (google if you doubt that).

 

[lemmiwinx]

Uh, I dunno back off and call for a social worker to defuse the situation?

 

[noonereal]

You are a cop responding to a violent perp breaking a restraining in order. You know he has violent history and outstanding warrants.

He had physically attacked you, you apply a taser which and he still resists. You and partner draw your weapons and he continues to ignore you and walks to his car.

You are quite aware and have seen in training of dash cam films of fellow cops being killed by perps after “reaching in Their car”.


the perp reaches into the car.

What do you do? It takes about half a second for him to turn and fire. Do you wait and “take your chances” ?

What would you do?

You are also aware of the loss of small motor skills under extreme pressure that nearly everyone suffers (google if you doubt that).

I am not a liberal but I am an never Trumper and I think teh shooting was justified.

Except for agenda, how could anyone think different?

 

[Simpletruther]

I am not a liberal but I am an never Trumper and I think teh shooting was justified.

Except for agenda, how could anyone think different?

Ok. I would not say it was the most perfect move. But we can’t ask for perfection. It was reasonable.

A super cool gifted cop maybe could wait one more second, And likely the perp was not going for a gun, and things could have been eventually resolved without death.

But, I can’t ask cops to do what most really can’t. The result is all on the perp, follow orders, don’t be an idiot and reach for things especially when you are already in criminal trouble the cops are on edge.

 

[Simpletruther]

Uh, I dunno back off and call for a social worker to defuse the situation?

So you are willing to potentially die at that moment to avoid firing?

The man s being arrested, we can’t call social workers every time a perp resist arrest.

 

[noonereal]

Ok. I would not say it was the most perfect move. But we can’t ask for perfection. It was reasonable.

A super cool gifted cop maybe could wait one more second, And likely the perp was not going for a gun, and things could have been eventually resolved without death.

But, I can’t ask cops to do what most really can’t. The result is all on the perp, follow orders, don’t be an idiot and reach for things especially when you are already in criminal trouble the cops are on edge.

I respect your opinion but I don't see how the cop did anything wrong.

 

[Crovax]

Uh, I dunno back off and call for a social worker to defuse the situation?

 

[Simpletruther]

I respect your opinion but I don't see how the cop did anything wrong.

I didn’t say he did.

 

[Peter]

It was a 2 on 1 situation where I assume both officers had guns.

I'd have most likely shouted "Stop or we'll open fire!" as both officers can draw.

The chances of the person being able to reach into the car and bring out a weapon and fire it accurately to hit anything before the officers who are presumably trained with guns is tiny unless the officers for some unknown reason had reaction times measured in hours.

No, I wouldn't open fire just because he reached into his car and I feel the training of the police should be good enough that 2 people should be able to handle an unruly suspect unless he's Mike Tyson.

 

[HIP56948]

Don't know but I wouldn't have put 7 bullets into him.

 

[Simpletruther]

It was a 2 on 1 situation where I assume both officers had guns.

I'd have most likely shouted "Stop or we'll open fire!" as both officers can draw.

The chances of the person being able to reach into the car and bring out a weapon and fire it accurately to hit anything before the officers who are presumably trained with guns is tiny unless the officers for some unknown reason had reaction times measured in hours.

No, I wouldn't open fire just because he reached into his car and I feel the training of the police should be good enough that 2 people should be able to handle an unruly suspect unless he's Mike Tyson.

I am not sure how 2 makes a difference. It only takes one shot to kill you. Upyourmosrtwrn ,Igor then take him out as you die.

When would you shout stop or we will open fire? Only after you see the gun? Or as he is reaching in the car?

 

[mike2810]

You are a cop responding to a violent perp breaking a restraining in order. You know he has violent history and outstanding warrants.

He had physically attacked you, you apply a taser which and he still resists. You and partner draw your weapons and he continues to ignore you and walks to his car.

You are quite aware and have seen in training of dash cam films of fellow cops being killed by perps after “reaching in Their car”.


the perp reaches into the car.

What do you do? It takes about half a second for him to turn and fire. Do you wait and “take your chances” ?

What would you do?

You are also aware of the loss of small motor skills under extreme pressure that nearly everyone suffers (google if you doubt that).

Back up a bit in your presented situation. There are things that could have been done before reaching the point of the suspect getting to the car and reaching in.

- The LEO should have called for backup way before approaching the "suspect". Reason. Kids in the car.
- One LEO should have checked on the kids and be position on the driver side of the car. That blocks the suspect from getting into the car.
- One LEO approach and confront the suspect.

Now playing out your scene.
"
the perp reaches into the car."

- LEO has the gun out. Hit the suspect in the head with it.
or slam the car door on the suspect.
or kick his legs out at the knees.

Your selected choice.
go ahead and dirty harry the guy. "make my day". :mrgreen:

 

[ttwtt78640]

It was a 2 on 1 situation where I assume both officers had guns.

1) I'd have most likely shouted "Stop or we'll open fire!" as both officers can draw.

The chances of the person being able to reach into the car and bring out a weapon and fire it accurately to hit anything before the officers who are presumably trained with guns is tiny unless the officers for some unknown reason had reaction times measured in hours.

2) No, I wouldn't open fire just because he reached into his car and I feel the training of the police should be good enough that 2 people should be able to handle an unruly suspect unless he's Mike Tyson.

It seems that 1 and 2 are in direct conflict with each other. If the suspect does not stop (and instead proceeds to reach into a nearby vehicle) then why not make good on the threat (and open fire)?

 

[Peter]

I am not sure how 2 makes a difference. It only takes one shot to kill you. Upyourmosrtwrn ,Igor then take him out as you die.

When would you shout stop or we will open fire? Only after you see the gun? Or as he is reaching in the car?

I'd at least try and get some evidence that a weapon is present in the car before blasting the guy into oblivion but I suppose I'm a soppy liberal who actually values human life.
I don't think deadly force was called for in this situation.
Reaching into a car is not worthy of a potential death sentence.

 

[Peter]

It seems that 1 and 2 are in direct conflict with each other. If the suspect does not stop (and instead proceeds to reach into a nearby vehicle) then why not make good on the threat (and open fire)?

Because I'm not a psychopath?
Yeah, some people ignore the police that isn't a reason to shoot them in the back. I think your argument says you think the person shot somehow gains super speed and can somehow outdraw and outshoot police officers who are at the ready to shoot. The officers did indeed have time to make sure a gun was being drawn before opening fire but they didn't they just started blasting.

 

[Casper]

You are a cop responding to a violent perp breaking a restraining in order. You know he has violent history and outstanding warrants.

He had physically attacked you, you apply a taser which and he still resists. You and partner draw your weapons and he continues to ignore you and walks to his car.

You are quite aware and have seen in training of dash cam films of fellow cops being killed by perps after “reaching in Their car”.


the perp reaches into the car.

What do you do? It takes about half a second for him to turn and fire. Do you wait and “take your chances” ?

What would you do?

You are also aware of the loss of small motor skills under extreme pressure that nearly everyone suffers (google if you doubt that).

Not let him just walk away to his car, grab him by more than his t-shirt and put him on the ground and in handcuffs. Happens all the time.

 

[rickc]

First I would never be a cop or join the military.

Not the kind.of.thing I am cut out for.

Cops only have a split second to make that kind of decision. It all boils down to their training. You are reacting to a perceived threat. No time for.thinking it through. You fall back to your training.

My opinion is the police usually have overwhelming force available. Looks.like in most cases they could back off and try to bring the situation to a close without escalating to deadly force. Just my uninformed opinion.

 

[Simpletruther]

I'd at least try and get some evidence that a weapon is present in the car before blasting the guy into oblivion but I suppose I'm a soppy liberal who actually values human life.
I don't think deadly force was called for in this situation.
Reaching into a car is not worthy of a potential death sentence.

I guess we have this disagree. The context at large, given the violent resisting, and the history of the guy, and the continuing on toward the car in the face of lethal force being presented to him (the cops had already drawn there weapons and were ordering him to stop, he ignored their weapons and those warnings). This context raises the likelihood of the gun attack scenario. It’s not uncommon for Perps to be on drugs and feeling invincible.
I would say it is the perp that is not valuing life, or he would not continue on doing foolish things in the face of guns drawn on him.

And frankly I doubt you could back up that talk, and would likely have squeezed off a panicky shot well before the cop fired. Not a personal thing about you, but most would do the same.

 

[Peter]

I guess we have this disagree. The context at large, given the violent resisting, and the history of the guy, and the continuing on toward the car in the face of lethal force being presented to him (the cops had already drawn there weapons and were ordering him to stop, he ignored their weapons and those warnings). This context raises the likelihood of the gun attack scenario. It’s not uncommon for Perps to be on drugs and feeling invincible.
I would say it is the perp that is not valuing life, or he would not continue on doing foolish things in the face of guns drawn on him.

And frankly I doubt you could back up that talk, and would likely have squeezed off a panicky shot well before the cop fired. Not a personal thing about you, but most would do the same.

That's why I'm not a police officer and would require lots of training before being given a gun.
The police should have the training and discipline to be able to handle pressure situations like this without resorting to opening fire.

 

[Simpletruther]

Not let him just walk away to his car, grab him by more than his t-shirt and put him on the ground and in handcuffs. Happens all the time.

They apparently tried that, he wrestled them, and they tazed him to no avail, apparently he was a kick assx fighter, so they drew their guns and commanded him, and he just kept walking around the car. At this point it’s a little too late to try to holster their gun and and try to take him down again, and risk him getting your gun (remember the taser didn’t work).

Now Imagine your adrenaline pumping after just having your assx kicked and not able to stop an out of control perp.

Whether or not you should have tried again to take him down by hand, it’s too late, he reaching in the car.

What would you then do?

 

[Simpletruther]

That's why I'm not a police officer and would require lots of training before being given a gun.
The police should have the training and discipline to be able to handle pressure situations like this without resorting to opening fire.

I am assuming you had the training. At some point yo do have resort to opening fire. That is the issue at hand. I believe the context of a violent perp ignoring lethal force aimed at him and continuing on his mission and reaches in a car allows for fire.

Also note it is reported that they had just wrestled with him, tased him, and couldn’t stop him with those methods. Only then did they draw weapons and command him to stop.
This paints a picture a s dangerous out of control perp. Would that change your take any if true?

 

[Peter]

I am assuming you had the training. At some point yo do have resort to opening fire. That is the issue at hand. I believe the context of a violent perp ignoring lethal force aimed at him and continuing on his mission and reaches in a car allows for fire.

Also note it is reported that they had just wrestled with him, tased him, and couldn’t stop him with those methods. Only then did they draw weapons and command him to stop.
This paints a picture a s dangerous out of control perp. Would that change your take any if true?

I still wouldn't open fire until I had evidence of a gun.
Again, I don't think deadly force was needed here.

 

[W_Heisenberg]

You are a cop responding to a violent perp breaking a restraining in order. You know he has violent history and outstanding warrants.

He had physically attacked you, you apply a taser which and he still resists. You and partner draw your weapons and he continues to ignore you and walks to his car.

You are quite aware and have seen in training of dash cam films of fellow cops being killed by perps after “reaching in Their car”.


the perp reaches into the car.

What do you do? It takes about half a second for him to turn and fire. Do you wait and “take your chances” ?

What would you do?

You are also aware of the loss of small motor skills under extreme pressure that nearly everyone suffers (google if you doubt that).

you mean like this?

https://twitter.com/ShannonSharpe/status/1299783390573465600?s=20

Turn the volume up.

 

[Simpletruther]

Back up a bit in your presented situation. There are things that could have been done before reaching the point of the suspect getting to the car and reaching in.

- The LEO should have called for backup way before approaching the "suspect". Reason. Kids in the car.
- One LEO should have checked on the kids and be position on the driver side of the car. That blocks the suspect from getting into the car.
- One LEO approach and confront the suspect.

This all sounds like good policing yes. Perhaps they did that first, but then the action moved away from the vehicle. At some point they wrestled with him, tased him, he apparently is a kick assx fighter. So options have now dwindled.

Now playing out your scene.
"
the perp reaches into the car."

- LEO has the gun out. Hit the suspect in the head with it.
or slam the car door on the suspect.
or kick his legs out at the knees.

Your selected choice.
go ahead and dirty harry the guy. "make my day". :mrgreen:

‘I like the part above but I think these options would be considered bad policing and not part of their training. Too much can go wrong there. Slamming the door on him might not even hurt much and gives him cover to position a gun for fire, as the door sings back open, bang your dead.

He has ready kicked your buttx, kicking at his leg his might be a glancing blow and get you off balance, he then Grabs your gun.

Gun to the head really risks perp getting your own gun from you.

 

[Aunt Antifa]

You are a cop responding to a violent perp breaking a restraining in order. You know he has violent history and outstanding warrants.

He had physically attacked you, you apply a taser which and he still resists. You and partner draw your weapons and he continues to ignore you and walks to his car.

You are quite aware and have seen in training of dash cam films of fellow cops being killed by perps after “reaching in Their car”.


the perp reaches into the car.

What do you do? It takes about half a second for him to turn and fire. Do you wait and “take your chances” ?

What would you do?

You are also aware of the loss of small motor skills under extreme pressure that nearly everyone suffers (google if you doubt that).

Shoot him in the back 7 times and hope the president of the united states is a big dumb racist.


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