LGBT, Not Born That Way?

[calamity]

But that is not most men, especially not most married men, even if they could do so without consequences.


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I doubt that is true. Porn sales are too strong to suggest that they would not.

 

[William Rea]

I asked you a question, which, if you answer it, will end this. You refuse to answer. Evidence is provided...by you,

You don't get to ask a question. You made an accusation as quoted below now back it the **** up.

You seem to have implied I chose to focus on that position because you held it or some such crap. My point is that your position on children and SRS has nothing to do with me taking it or mentioning it to William, who I believe has the opposite view.

 

[calamity]

You don't get to ask a question. You made an accusation as quoted below now back it the **** up.

Right, "I believe." And, you, by refusing to state that you oppose HRT and SRS for minors have just reinforced said belief.

End it now---say you oppose it. Otherwise, I was right.

 

[Ontologuy]

What would be the point?

The foundational, undeniable point about etiology is that you're born with your sexual/gender identity/attracted-to, pretty much "hard wired".

The point of scan-studying children at a very early age would be to corroborate that you're indeed "born" that way and not that it continues developing that way during the first four years of postnatal life when the brain's structure is still forming .. though perhaps, yes, a moot point.

And, of course, what gestational etiology means is that the abnormal conditions of homosexuality and transgender could be prevented, as the cause that sets the epigenetic abnormality in motion is now believed to be related to stress experienced by the mother during pregnancy, and may be as simple as reducing her stress during pregnancy by, among other means, providing her with supplements that reduce body stress.

Of course, this reality adds controversial flame to the fire .. but only for those trying to hide behind the defense mechanism denial that gay/trans isn't a difficult and unnecessary condition in and of itself to endure .. and for those who swear to God that it's a choice-based sin.

 

[CLAX1911]

Like I said, any woman who hooks up with a dude 30 years her senior is a head case. I don't need the drama.

These things undermine your statement not mine

 

[CLAX1911]

The foundational, undeniable point about etiology is that you're born with your sexual/gender identity/attracted-to, pretty much "hard wired".

The point of scan-studying children at a very early age would be to corroborate that you're indeed "born" that way and not that it continues developing that way during the first four years of postnatal life when the brain's structure is still forming .. though perhaps, yes, a moot point.

And, of course, what gestational etiology means is that the abnormal conditions of homosexuality and transgender could be prevented, as the cause that sets the epigenetic abnormality in motion is now believed to be related to stress experienced by the mother during pregnancy, and may be as simple as reducing her stress during pregnancy by, among other means, providing her with supplements that reduce body stress.

Of course, this reality adds controversial flame to the fire .. but only for those trying to hide behind the defense mechanism denial that gay/trans isn't a difficult and unnecessary condition in and of itself to endure .. and for those who swear to God that it's a choice-based sin.

But that would only work if 100% of what makes a person homosexual is prenatal. Science doesn't exactly support that.

 

[Ontologuy]

But that would only work if 100% of what makes a person homosexual is prenatal. Science doesn't exactly support that.

Actually, science does support that.

Science has determined the epigenetic etiology of homosexuality and transsexuality.

It's a fact.

Denial is futile.

Besides, the scientific fact here would work against the bullying of gays/trans by religious fundamentalists and those traditionally influenced by them.

Facing the truth is a win-win for everyone.

 

[joG]

Actually, science does support that.

Science has determined the epigenetic etiology of homosexuality and transsexuality.

It's a fact.

Denial is futile.

Besides, the scientific fact here would work against the bullying of gays/trans by religious fundamentalists and those traditionally influenced by them.

Facing the truth is a win-win for everyone.

I was just doing an informal meta brows to check that the other day. There seemed quite a bit of uncertainty among scientists on the matter. Which information did you base your statement on.

 

[calamity]

These things undermine your statement not mine

Not really. It just splashes some reality paint on the rose colored glasses. Someone 30 years younger may look good on the surface, but digging deeper one has to ask themselves a simple question. "What kind of woman would be interested in a guy 20 to 30 years older than her?"

Once that question is asked and answered, the dream is gone.

About 5, 6, 7, who knows anymore years ago, I was sitting in a bar with my buddy, a fairly good looking guy, age-45, with an outgoing personality and solid career. At the time, he was going through a divorce. The bartender, one of those sexy twenty-something blondes I've been talking about above, but one with a clear head, asked him what he planned to do. He basically said, "Go get me a twenty five year old girlfriend."

Later, when he went to the head, she asked me if he was serious. I sort of shrugged and smiled, saying, "Probably. But, I am sure that he has no idea what he would be in for."

She came back with a great response. I remember it to this day. "He's got no chance. Women my age are looking for guys in their 30's, not 45. And, the ones that are want money. With two kids plus an ex-wife who will be hitting him up for child support and alimony, he won't have that kind of money."

 

[CLAX1911]

Actually, science does support that.

Science has determined the epigenetic etiology of homosexuality and transsexuality.

It's a fact.

It's a fact is it? Than prove it. Please don't post tabloids and blogs I prefer science.

Denial is futile.

I'd say discussing with you in general is futile.

Besides, the scientific fact here would work against the bullying of gays/trans by religious fundamentalists and those traditionally influenced by them.

No it wouldn't.

Facing the truth is a win-win for everyone.

I would agree with this but you have yet to prove anything. Further you flat out lie when you say scientific facts will undermine religious fundies. So nobody in the church of ****tards denied evolution?

 

[calamity]

Actually, science does support that.

Science has determined the epigenetic etiology of homosexuality and transsexuality.

It's a fact.

Denial is futile.

Besides, the scientific fact here would work against the bullying of gays/trans by religious fundamentalists and those traditionally influenced by them.

Facing the truth is a win-win for everyone.

I'm probably in agreement on that. As much as I like to clown on the subject, I'd have to admit that it's probably an innate condition more so than something learned. But, I don't think this conclusion is a done deal yet.

 

[CLAX1911]

Not really. It just splashes some reality paint on the rose colored glasses. Someone 30 years younger may look good on the surface, but digging deeper one has to ask themselves a simple question. "What kind of woman would be interested in a guy 20 to 30 years older than her?"

Well yes really. You just posted reasons why you wouldn't do what you said any man would do

Your post undermines your statement. It supports mine.

You said a man would dump his old wife in a heart beat for someone younger. I said there is more to a relationship than just how someone looks. You said bull**** and then gave excuses why you wouldn't do it.

You're talking yourself in a circle.

 

[opendebate]

New research review finds "no scientific evidence" to support the "born that way" view of human sexuality and gender.

Number 50 ~ Fall 2016 - The New Atlantis



Biased propaganda or legitimate review of literature?

A group dedicated to influencing public policy to confirm to their faith? Propaganda? Is that even a real question

 

[calamity]

Well yes really. You just posted reasons why you wouldn't do what you said any man would do

Your post undermines your statement. It supports mine.

You said a man would dump his old wife in a heart beat for someone younger. I said there is more to a relationship than just how someone looks. You said bull**** and then gave excuses why you wouldn't do it.

You're talking yourself in a circle.

Did you not read this part? It explains exactly why one would think themselves in a circle on this issue.

...

Once that question is asked and answered, the dream is gone.

About 5, 6, 7, who knows anymore years ago, I was sitting in a bar with my buddy, a fairly good looking guy, age-45, with an outgoing personality and solid career. At the time, he was going through a divorce. The bartender, one of those sexy twenty-something blondes I've been talking about above, but one with a clear head, asked him what he planned to do. He basically said, "Go get me a twenty five year old girlfriend."

Later, when he went to the head, she asked me if he was serious. I sort of shrugged and smiled, saying, "Probably. But, I am sure that he has no idea what he would be in for."

She came back with a great response. I remember it to this day. "He's got no chance. Women my age are looking for guys in their 30's, not 45. And, the ones that are want money. With two kids plus an ex-wife who will be hitting him up for child support and alimony, he won't have that kind of money."

BTW, I have always added caveat to that "I would dump her in a heartbeat" statement. Things said like "no consequences," for example, are very important qualifiers. In fact, in one of my first posts on this subject, I mentioned not doing it because I know it would not last, and I would have to constantly look over my shoulder and sleep with one eye open for fear of being cheated on or murdered for my insurance money.

Besides, like the guy above, once I divorced my wife, I'd be broke. The buyout would be enormous. No thanks.

 

[roguenuke]

I doubt that is true. Porn sales are too strong to suggest that they would not.

Porn is fantasy. Some women fantasize about being raped but they don't really want to be raped.


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[CLAX1911]

Did you not read this part? It explains exactly why one would think themselves in a circle on this issue.

Yes I did. I deleted it because it was redundant diarrhea of the mouth commonly used by those trying to dig themselves out of a hole.

It's just another excuse you are making for why members wouldn't do what you said they would.

 

[calamity]

Yes I did. I deleted it because it was redundant diarrhea of the mouth commonly used by those trying to dig themselves out of a hole.

It's just another excuse you are making for why members wouldn't do what you said they would.

If there was no consequence, they would do it. But, like I said, most of us are smart enough to read the tea leaves.

 

[calamity]

Porn is fantasy. Some women fantasize about being raped but they don't really want to be raped.


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And, most men would leave the old lady for a young vixen if not for fear of being raped financially, by both the old and the new hottie.

 

[CLAX1911]

If there was no consequence, they would do it.


But, like I said, most of us are smart enough to read the tea leaves.

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a marry Christmas

If there were no consequences to eating human flesh I imagine people would do that as well.

 

[calamity]

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a marry Christmas

If there were no consequences to eating human flesh I imagine people would do that as well.

I rarely post an assertion without caveat and qualifiers. If, maybe, could be, or I believe are part of my lexicon. You all just ignore them though. It's rather funny.

 

[CLAX1911]

I rarely post an assertion without caveat and qualifiers. If, maybe, could be, or I believe are part of my lexicon. You all just ignore them though. It's rather funny.

Well you are talking about a fictional world where consequences don't exist. Thay has no value in discussion.

You might as well say "if leprechauns were real blah blah blah blah nonsense."

The fact is consequences exist. If they didn't the wields would likely be a very different place.

Further your caveat was an after thought. If what you said in the beginning was "if consequences didn't exist I'd do crap without consequence." Nobody would evert talk to you.

 

[calamity]

Well you are talking about a fictional world where consequences don't exist. Thay has no value in discussion.

You might as well say "if leprechauns were real blah blah blah blah nonsense."

The fact is consequences exist. If they didn't the wields would likely be a very different place.

Actually, it's quite relevant to the op. Most men suck it up and deal with their situation as it is, make it work, even if they do prefer to leave the hag for a 23 year old stripper, go **** guys or transition to a woman. The cost for change is too high. That's the point of this whole line of argument.

 

[calamity]

My very first post in the thread. A very well stated post that goes right to the heart of the issue which, of course, had the usual suspects in the DP crowd go completely off the rails for a dozen pages.

Who knows what makes people have a sexual orientation or even a preference. In the end, it all boils down to what you can get anyway. I may prefer young blonde women aged 23, but at 53, I'll settle for the knowledge that my 43 year-old wife is probably the best I can get at this point. So, I'll stay married. But, if she left me for some reason or another, I'd probably swing for the fences and try landing me a 33 year old.

 

[TheGoverness]

My very first post in the thread. A very well stated post that goes right to the heart of the issue which, of course, had the usual suspects in the DP crowd go completely off the rails for a dozen pages.

It's not a well-stated post, and it really has bo relevancy to this discussion at all.

All it does is make you look incredibly shallow.

 

[calamity]

It's not a well-stated post, and it really has bo relevancy to this discussion at all.

All it does is make you look incredibly shallow.

Why is it so different morally for some married dude to have an attraction to young women instead of someone of the same sex? If some guy said he is married but lusted after men, no one on the PC left would bat an eye, and they would probably offer encouragement. But, when the same guy says he has the hots for young women, the same crowd suddenly gets all judgmental and throws fits.

That's why I posted that btw. I suspected that I'd get that reaction. But, I shouldn't have gotten it. After all, it's just another orientation, preference, attraction, or whatever the new PC term for that sort of thing is today.