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LGBT, Not Born That Way?

When it comes to trans, I don't think anyone is. At least not in a double bind sort of way.



IMO, the whole issue is weak on science and strong on politics. It's just PC to give in to the demands of those who claim to be gender dyphoric.

There certainly is no objective proof that this condition actually exists and that surgery actually helps. All we have is a bunch of subjective analysis and a few brain scan studies which seem to indicate an anomaly, basically studies showing that some trans folks have brains which appear to resemble those of the opposite sex, but not all do. And, we also have a lot of political pressure put on everyone by the gay agenda crowd.

I CANNOT believe you are doing this again. Actually, I can. It goes to exactly what I've said about how you debate. You say stupid things, post misinformation and ignorance, repeatedly, and get debunked at every turn. THEN, eventually, you start agreeing with those who have proven you wrong. After a few weeks... you start up again with the same stupid comments, misinformation, and ignorance. This post, for example. How many times have I debunked your analysis of the study above? Last I counted, at least 6. And yet you keep posting it. Now, if you;d like, calamity, we can reload our debate, and I can humiliate you for ANOTHER 6 months, with thousands of posts showing you don't know what you are talking about.
 
The statement "most successful treatment" is subjective. There is a dearth of objective research on this subject, as was stated in the study cited above.

No. You are incorrect. This has been explained to you over and over. All you are doing is repeating positions that have been debunked by information and research. You are being dishonest.
 
No. You are incorrect. This has been explained to you over and over. All you are doing is repeating positions that have been debunked by information and research. You are being dishonest.

Even you agreed that there are no double-blind studies showing efficacy of SRS in purely objective terms. Good grief.
 
Well, homosexuality serves no purpose whatsoever and appears to ignore the function of the sexual organs in question. Why would people not be interested in knowing how an attraction that doesn't seem to serve a biological function came to exist?

In a more natural environment, living society, homosexuality can easily serve several purposes. These have been described before. And something doesn't have to serve a purpose for us to accept it as a legal activity.


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People make more out of an honest statement than they should. Of course my "preference" is to come home to a naked 23 year old blonde, preferably 5'7 and 120 lbs with tits out to here. But, the reality is that at 53 the only shot I have at getting that is to buy it, and I won't go there....and, it's not for moral reasons either. I just know that purchased sex is empty. So, did I "settle" for my wife, who is 43, looks 35 and loves me like mad? No. I'm not settling. She's pretty damned hot and I'm quite pleased to have bagged it. I doubt I could bag another one, to be honest.

But, seriously, If I could bag a 23 year old blonde who ****s me like a rabbit, won't **** around behind my back or plot to kill me for my insurance, I most certainly would.

Why do you say "of course" your preference is that? Are you saying that most of all men would prefer doing that?


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I CANNOT believe you are doing this again. Actually, I can. It goes to exactly what I've said about how you debate. You say stupid things, post misinformation and ignorance, repeatedly, and get debunked at every turn. THEN, eventually, you start agreeing with those who have proven you wrong. After a few weeks... you start up again with the same stupid comments, misinformation, and ignorance. This post, for example. How many times have I debunked your analysis of the study above? Last I counted, at least 6. And yet you keep posting it. Now, if you;d like, calamity, we can reload our debate, and I can humiliate you for ANOTHER 6 months, with thousands of posts showing you don't know what you are talking about.
I agreed that a vast percentage of adults who chose SRS self-report that they are satisfied with the results. I also said that said self reporting is meaningless, no more objective than people who say prayer helped them survive cancer. In fact, with exception of very slight actual brain differences in a few trans people, the whole damned phenomena revolves around nothing more than self-identification and reporting.
 
Asserting something as fact doesn't qualify as an argument. Unless you can present empirical evidence or a well-reasoned argument in its favor, you're only avowing a belief. For homosexuality not to be a choice, it'd need to be an inborn trait, something that lacks scientific evidence and defies observed reality.



Actually, there is no such empirical evidence, and it's ironic that you say that in light of this topic. More importantly, the two parts of your statement are contradictory. An inborn trait is by definition rigid and immutable; as such, you can't claim that sexuality is inborn and agree it may not be entirely inborn. Regardless of that contradiction, you're rephrasing my original proposition. If we lack the evidence to support the born that way proposition, what high ground do those that claim that only homosexuals would come out as such in a society more tolerant of homosexuality compared to my proposition that perhaps a heterosexual is more likely to come out as homosexual in such a society?



Then homosexuality isn't an inborn trait if it can be biased by social norms and practices.



Actually they can, and they do. Isn't this what the liberal conception of sexuality as a fluid construct is all about? Many people start off as heterosexual, then they decide to "experiment". They either like the other team better and join accordingly, or they decide buggery isn't really for them and go back to base one. Sometimes, they decide to have the cake and eat it, and they become bisexual. These possibilities happen in different permutations and through different periods of time for different people. So yes, people can change their sexuality apparently, and some 50% of British youth profess to that.

Being confused about your attractions and even possibly simply bisexual is not the same as changing sexuality on a whim.


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I personally don't care if people are gay, straight or bi. I just find it odd that we twist this attraction/choice/preference into some god-given trait that needs everyone's respect. It's no different than anyone else who is attracted to or chooses or has a preference for things not mainstream, like 50 year old dudes who want to bang 23-year old hotties, for instance.

Guy leaves his wife of thirty years because he suddenly decides he has to live out his gay thing. Everyone says, well, he's just being himself. Dude leaves the same wife to go bang cheerleaders--everyone is up in arms.

Everyone such as who is up in arms? If everyone is of legal age, it isn't our business why someone is banging cheerleaders after leaving their wife. There is a difference in the mentality though in those situations in most cases. If the person comes out as gay and says they can't take living the lie anymore after 30 years of marriage, and they are looking for a different partner of simply the same sex then that is similar to a person who married someone because of a child after 18 years and no other children saying they are done and go looking for someone else. Both examples would be different than the guy saying he was leaving his wife of 20 years to go **** cheerleaders or football players.


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Why do you say "of course" your preference is that? Are you saying that most of all men would prefer doing that?


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I doubt they jack off to images of 50-year old women. Even Hollywood dumps women from lead romantic interest roles after they reach the age of about 35. Ask Demi Moore if she's still being offered roles as a showgirl or one where a rich guy lays a million dollars on the table to **** her.
 
Everyone such as who is up in arms? If everyone is of legal age, it isn't our business why someone is banging cheerleaders after leaving their wife. There is a difference in the mentality though in those situations in most cases. If the person comes out as gay and says they can't take living the lie anymore after 30 years of marriage, and they are looking for a different partner of simply the same sex then that is similar to a person who married someone because of a child after 18 years and no other children saying they are done and go looking for someone else. Both examples would be different than the guy saying he was leaving his wife of 20 years to go **** cheerleaders or football players.


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Nonsense. A married guy who comes out as gay in middle age or, even better, trans is labeled as courageous. He becomes a symbol for truth, a sign that there is hope for gays to find happiness in a heteronormative society, a hero to all that is holy by the PC crowd. They even make him woman of the year. Meanwhile...

An old dude who dumps the mother of his children for a cheerleader is called a selfish letch.
 
I doubt they jack off to images of 50-year old women. Even Hollywood dumps women from lead romantic interest roles after they reach the age of about 35. Ask Demi Moore if she's still being offered roles as a showgirl or one where a rich guy lays a million dollars on the table to **** her.

First, being with someone and jacking off to them are two different things.

Second, all people have different interests and attractions. Most men don't watch romantic movies because they care about the actresses, but rather to get with the woman (or man) they are with. Romance in others (even movies) seems to encourage romantic feelings for at least women.


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Nonsense. A married guy who comes out as gay in middle age or, even better, trans is labeled as courageous. He becomes a symbol for truth, a sign that there is hope for gays to find happiness in a heteronormative society, a hero to all that is holy by the PC crowd. They even make him woman of the year. Meanwhile...

An old dude who dumps the mother of his children for a cheerleader is called a selfish letch.

Depends on who the person is who is lauding such people. You really need to stop stereotyping.

Plus many transwomen who come out after married remain with their spouse, wife if she will keep her.


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First, being with someone and jacking off to them are two different things.

Second, all people have different interests and attractions. Most men don't watch romantic movies because they care about the actresses, but rather to get with the woman (or man) they are with. Romance in others (even movies) seems to encourage romantic feelings for at least women.


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Has Meg Ryan landed any Sleepless in Seattle movies lately? I don't recall seeing her fake an orgasm in a diner anymore either.
 
Depends on who the person is who is lauding such people. You really need to stop stereotyping.

Plus many transwomen who come out after married remain with their spouse, wife if she will keep her.


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Wives should do that when hubby starts banging a cheerleader and buying her everything she wants to continue getting in her pants. It's probably cheaper than SRS and HRT.
 
Even you agreed that there are no double-blind studies showing efficacy of SRS in purely objective terms. Good grief.
And, this HAS BEEN POINTED OUT TO YOU SEVERAL TIMES, exactly how do you do a double blind test on this?
 
And, this HAS BEEN POINTED OUT TO YOU SEVERAL TIMES, exactly how do you do a double blind test on this?

Difficulty to perform proper scientific inquiries is not my problem. Fact remains, there are none. You guys are all standing firm on shaky ground. We have nothing proving that any of this trans crap is real. Nothing. All you have is self reporting and some cherry picked brain scans.
 
In a more natural environment, living society, homosexuality can easily serve several purposes. These have been described before. And something doesn't have to serve a purpose for us to accept it as a legal activity.


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The whole gay uncle that helps with the kids argument? No offense, but that's kind of a silly argument. In a more natural environment less men overall would reproduce and thus more men would be available to help with children. The argument pretty much defeats itself, really.
 
Difficulty to perform proper scientific inquiries is not my problem. Fact remains, there are none. You guys are all standing firm on shaky ground. We have nothing proving that any of this trans crap is real. Nothing. All you have is self reporting and some cherry picked brain scans.

I noted that you dodged the question because you have nothing but double blind prejudice.

Fortunately, scientists and medical practitioners do perform proper enquiries. For obvious reasons you choose to ignore the evidence that they work hard to produce.
 
I noted that you dodged the question because you have nothing but double blind prejudice.

Fortunately, scientists and medical practitioners do perform proper enquiries. For obvious reasons you choose to ignore the evidence that they work hard to produce.

"Double blind prejudice"? Lol...yeah, imagine that, asking for objective data free from bias. :roll:
 
"Double blind prejudice"? Lol...yeah, imagine that, asking for objective data free from bias. :roll:
You have been shown exactly that but, you prefer to persist with your conspiracy theory. And you expect us to accept your educational claims while you persist with that crap?
 
You have been shown exactly that but, you prefer to persist with your conspiracy theory. And you expect us to accept your educational claims while you persist with that crap?

No. I've been shown subjective interpretations of some brain studies and a whole lot of results from self-reported surveys. Do you even know what "objective" means in research?
 
No. I've been shown subjective interpretations of some brain studies and a whole lot of results from self-reported surveys. Do you even know what "objective" means in research?
You have been shown the evidence, you previously agreed with it, eventually, and here you are back on this forum weeks later repeating your same crap. It is the same kind of behaviour pattern that fundamentalist Creationists and conspiracy theorists engage in. I'm sure you feel at home in their company, if you are like them and lack any sense of shame.
 
You have been shown the evidence, you previously agreed with it, eventually, and here you are back on this forum weeks later repeating your same crap. It is the same kind of behaviour pattern that fundamentalist Creationists and conspiracy theorists engage in. I'm sure you feel at home in their company, if you are like them and lack any sense of shame.
I agreed that the subjective results of some of the research was consistent with the arguments CC and S&M were making. That's a far cry from saying, "This is a done deal."

And, when it comes to creationists and CT'ers, people buying into subjective results are no different than those who claim prayer solves drug problems or cures cancer. The nonsense being pushed here is no different.
 
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I agreed that the subjective results of some of the research was consistent with the arguments CC and S&M were making. That's a far cry from saying, "This is a done deal."

And, when it comes to creationists and CT'ers, people buying into subjective results are no different than those who claim prayer solves drug problems or cures cancer. The nonsense being pushed here is no different.

No one claimed at the time that it was perfect calamity so don't even go there with that strawman crap to try to defend your behaviour.

The fact is, that on several occasions you have pulled this crap and the pattern fits.
 
:shrug:

I don't think that anyone who has spent time observing humans would come away with an impression other than that we are prone to feedback loops. The "Born That Way" platform and insistence, I think, was always about political, rather than scientific aims. In the next few years, such a rigid position will probably become the new Hate Speech :roll:
What do you mean in the next few years?? Saying anything disparaging to the LGBT?Q? community is already considered hate speech in many lightless corners of politics.
 
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