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Leaked documents show strong business support for raising the minimum wage (1 Viewer)

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TheDemSocialist

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Whenever minimum wage increases are proposed on the state or federal level, business groups tend to fight them tooth and nail. But actual opposition may not be as united as the groups' rhetoric might make it appear, according to internal research conducted by a leading consultant for state chambers of commerce.
The survey of 1,000 business executives across the country was conducted by LuntzGlobal, the firm run by Republican pollster Frank Luntz, and obtained by a liberal watchdog group called the Center for Media and Democracy. (The slide deck is here, and the full questionnaire is here.) Among the most interesting findings: 80 percent of respondents said they supported raising their state's minimum wage, while only eight percent opposed it.
"That’s where it’s undeniable that they support the increase,” Luntz told state chamber executives in a webinar describing the results, noting that it squares with other polling they’ve done. “And this is universal. If you’re fighting against a minimum wage increase, you’re fighting an uphill battle, because most Americans, even most Republicans, are okay with raising the minimum wage.”
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Read more @: Leaked documents show strong business support for raising the minimum wage

Well say it aint so!? :2razz:
 
It's easy to confuse "The Loudest" with "The Majority". This is true on so many issues.

Whether its sensationalist media or party hacks, when something like raising the minimum wage comes up, certain groups will go out looking for those loudest opponents so they can put some soundbites together. The media just wants to get you watching, the party hacks want to influence what is perceived as the majority opinion.
 
it is a shame they didnt ask HOW MUCH of a raise they would be okay with....isnt it?

i have zero issue with a raise up to $ 9.00 a hour....i have said so many times

that is a substantial increase from the $ 7.25 and is a doable number

it is the asinine numbers of $ 15.00 an hour and such that is ridiculous
 
This would destroy many of the poor and uneducated, which is the whole point, isn't it? Get them on the government dole and completely dependent on the government?
 
Erod said:
This would destroy many of the poor and uneducated, which is the whole point, isn't it? Get them on the government dole and completely dependent on the government?
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Yep, keep them voting Democrat
 
Erod said:
This would destroy many of the poor and uneducated, which is the whole point, isn't it? Get them on the government dole and completely dependent on the government?
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Which is why our economy was destroyed the dozens of other times we have raised the minimum wage over the past 8 decades or so...

I think 15 dollars an hour is a bridge too far, but there is no reason to believe that fairly modest increases in the minimum wage have ever done anything to the poor other than put a little more money in their pocket.
 
SocialD said:
Raising their states min wage... not the fed min wage. an important point.
I question the validity of this though... nothing is stopping these businesses from officering more money. so why would it matter to them.
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I think most policy makers on the right are against raising the wage on both the state and federal level
 
TheDemSocialist said:
I think most policy makers on the right are against raising the wage on both the state and federal level
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I don't really see the point of it all myself. If I was running a business my goal would be to get quality people and pay them a good wage to keep them.
the corporate world , in general I mean I'm sure there are some that get it, don't value employee retention enough.
onboarding someone and training them and the learning curve to proficiency is a lot of lost productivity.
 
SocialD said:
Raising their states min wage... not the fed min wage. an important point.
I question the validity of this though... nothing is stopping these businesses from officering more money. so why would it matter to them.
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Competition. They can raise wages as long as their competitors do the same.
 
What is the point to a higher minimum wage?

Is it so to achieve a 'living' wage? The poverty line for one person in the lower 48 states is $11,880. Someone full time at $7.25/hr. makes $14,500; substantially more then the poverty line...so it already is a 'living' wage.

https://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty-guidelines

Is it to keep up with inflation? The original national minimum wage was two bits an hour back in the thirties...and that equates to under $5/hr. with inflation. So it's not that.

Is it just the desire for those on minimum wage to earn as much as possible...regardless of productivity? Well, people are entitled to their opinions. But if you are asking for a $15/minimum wage BUT also are pissed off because of American jobs going overseas...then you are shooting yourself in the foot. Massively raising the minimum wage without any increase in output greatly lowers productivity...and low productivity (compared to China et al) is probably the main reason jobs are leaving America.
So, by calling for a massively higher minimum wage (which will have a ripple effect which will raise almost all wages to some extent) you are just making job migration worse...possibly much worse.


I can certainly sympathize with those who depend on minimum wage for a living. But you cannot have something for nothing. If you want WAY more pay for ZERO extra effort, somewhere down the line there WILL be a cost. There always is.
 
No company in it's right mind would EVER be in favor of a large increase of their employees wages in return for a ZERO increase in production from said employees.

It is absolutely ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

'Sure people. I am definitely in favor of doubling your wages and you don't have to work any harder at all.'

Come on now.
 
DA60 said:
What is the point to a higher minimum wage?

Is it so to achieve a 'living' wage? The poverty line for one person in the lower 48 states is $11,880. Someone full time at $7.25/hr. makes $14,500; substantially more then the poverty line...so it already is a 'living' wage.

https://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty-guidelines

Is it to keep up with inflation? The original national minimum wage was two bits an hour back in the thirties...and that equates to under $5/hr. with inflation. So it's not that.

Is it just the desire for those on minimum wage to earn as much as possible...regardless of productivity? Well, people are entitled to their opinions. But if you are asking for a $15/minimum wage BUT also are pissed off because of American jobs going overseas...then you are shooting yourself in the foot. Massively raising the minimum wage without any increase in output greatly lowers productivity...and low productivity (compared to China et al) is probably the main reason jobs are leaving America.
So, by calling for a massively higher minimum wage (which will have a ripple effect which will raise almost all wages to some extent) you are just making job migration worse...possibly much worse.


I can certainly sympathize with those who depend on minimum wage for a living. But you cannot have something for nothing. If you want WAY more pay for ZERO extra effort, somewhere down the line there WILL be a cost. There always is.
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Your linkage of wages to productivity is puzzling to me. Very few employees are paid based on their productivity (on a piece work or commission basis) most workers are paid (hourly on on a salary) based on what is required to attract their replacement and/or to retain their labor. If a few days of training (or experience) is all that is required then that, rather than productivity, is more likely to influence the "fair market" value of labor.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Your linkage of wages to productivity is puzzling to me. Very few employees are paid based on their productivity (on a piece work or commission basis) most workers are paid (hourly on on a salary) based on what is required to attract their replacement and/or to retain their labor. If a few days of training (or experience) is all that is required then that, rather than productivity, is more likely to influence the "fair market" value of labor.
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Definition of Productivity

'Productivity is an economic measure of output per unit of input.'

Productivity Definition | Investopedia

If you raise someone's wages and their output does not increase, then their productivity drops.

Doubling the national MW without any increase in output per hour worked WILL reduce national productivity...all other things being equal.
 
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Back in grad school I was required to read a book called "Economics in One Lesson" by Henry Hazlit.
It was eye-opening. Excellent explanations of why govt required minimum wages actually increase unemployment while automation/technology actually decrease unemployment.
An excerpt from the chapter on minimum wage:
You cannot make a man worth a given amount by making it illegal for anyone to offer him anything less. You merely deprive him of the right to earn the amount that his abilities and situation would permit him to earn, while you deprive the community even of the moderate services that he is capable of rendering. In brief, for a low wage you substitute unemployment. You do harm all around, with no comparable compensation.
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https://fee.org/resources/economics-in-one-lesson-2/#calibre_link-41
(This link will allow free access to the full text and easy link access to each chapter/subject.)
 
SocialD said:
Raising their states min wage... not the fed min wage. an important point.
I question the validity of this though... nothing is stopping these businesses from officering more money. so why would it matter to them.
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For companies that have jobs starting beyond minimum wage, it increases their customer base at no cost to them. I could definitely see a company like verizon or other telecoms supporting an increase in MW: their workers are already well beyond it, and the extra mandated money will probably go for things like cell phones, or upgraded plans. Same thing with auto manufacturers. So, one could consider it a tax on no/low skill industries to support skilled ones.
 
SocialD said:
I don't really see the point of it all myself. If I was running a business my goal would be to get quality people and pay them a good wage to keep them.
the corporate world , in general I mean I'm sure there are some that get it, don't value employee retention enough.
onboarding someone and training them and the learning curve to proficiency is a lot of lost productivity.
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You get quality people by paying them more than minimum wage. When minimum wage goes up it destroys the progress made by those already making more than minimum wage. Lefties falsely assume that whenever the minimum wage goes up by $1, everyone's wage will go up by $1. That's usually not the case.
 
gdgyva said:
it is a shame they didnt ask HOW MUCH of a raise they would be okay with....isnt it?

i have zero issue with a raise up to $ 9.00 a hour....i have said so many times

that is a substantial increase from the $ 7.25 and is a doable number

it is the asinine numbers of $ 15.00 an hour and such that is ridiculous
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this is one of those yea raise it but well guess what why does it have to be raised?
if they want to pay their people more then well they can already do that.

why do they need government to force them to do it?

that is the same with liberals like buffett that whine and cry that he should pay more taxes.
he can already do that now so why does he need the government for force him to do it.

any business can pay their employee's whatever they want to. they don't need government to force them
to do it. yet they don't.
 
ludin said:
this is one of those yea raise it but well guess what why does it have to be raised?
if they want to pay their people more then well they can already do that.

why do they need government to force them to do it?

that is the same with liberals like buffett that whine and cry that he should pay more taxes.
he can already do that now so why does he need the government for force him to do it.

any business can pay their employee's whatever they want to. they don't need government to force them
to do it. yet they don't.
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the federal minimum hasnt changed much in a lot of years

a change up to $ 9.00 is warranted....

i wouldnt go above that....but that number seems like common sense to me
 
gdgyva said:
the federal minimum hasnt changed much in a lot of years

a change up to $ 9.00 is warranted....

i wouldnt go above that....but that number seems like common sense to me
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most people make that now anyway. only about 2.5% of the work force make federal minimum wage.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Which is why our economy was destroyed the dozens of other times we have raised the minimum wage over the past 8 decades or so...

I think 15 dollars an hour is a bridge too far, but there is no reason to believe that fairly modest increases in the minimum wage have ever done anything to the poor other than put a little more money in their pocket.
Click to expand...


That, and raise the prices of everything so that nothing really changes.
 
Citizen.Seven said:
For companies that have jobs starting beyond minimum wage, it increases their customer base at no cost to them. I could definitely see a company like verizon or other telecoms supporting an increase in MW: their workers are already well beyond it, and the extra mandated money will probably go for things like cell phones, or upgraded plans. Same thing with auto manufacturers. So, one could consider it a tax on no/low skill industries to support skilled ones.
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Actually you have a very good point there.
 
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