Latest answer to school shootings

[Reformedfindlay]

Here's hoping that was aimed and shot rather than shot and aimed

Damn! Rookie mistake! I think I missed the target by a mile

 

[jamesrage]

Can canned goods stop school shooters? - CNN.com

Really.

I looked for The Onion disclaimer. It isn't there. Anyone think CNN got punked?

There is a similar thread on this almost two years ago.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/gun-c...m-teached-students-case-school-shootings.html

 

[joko104]

They should be arrested. Defense against armed attackers is illegal in schools.

 

[joko104]

I am getting the sinking feeling this direction we're taking is a way of giving up on the problem and shifting the blame onto the victims, just like we've done with all manner of violent crime, especially rape.

If this is what we're going to focus on -- readying kids for war, basically -- rather than trying to figure out why America has so many school shootings compared to basically everywhere else in the world, I feel like it's only a matter of time before a school shooting is met with "Well, they just didn't take responsibility for preparing. If they had, they'd have lived. They knew that sometimes crazy people run into schools and kill people. They should have known better." More victim blame.

This is getting more depressing the more I think about it. I can't even stomach the idea of discussing the merits of the damn soup cans... Good lord, really?

If true it really is despicable. To declare there is no money for trained, armed security - so instead teach kids to throw cans at armed attackers? Telling kids, "Hey kids, don't think we'll protect you. You're on your own, defend yourselves. Bring a can of soup!" (Yuck, yuck, yuck). It gets no more absurd than that. Sounds outright sadistic.

The only people who are going to get hit with cans out of this are other kids. What idiot came up with this idea of teaching kids to throw cans at people?

 

[joko104]

Or what if the shooters are wearing full body armor. There goes the viability of arming teachers.

I like the idea of at least equipping every room with bullet proof shields.

You really do know absolutely nothing about firearms, do you?

 

[joko104]

My morning drive talk show host was talking about this yesterday and folks were laughing but the fact of the matter is that in lieu of return fire the best course of action against a rampage shooter is ANY distraction. If your choices are "duck and cover" or throw a can of beans and run like the wind I'd recommend plan B every damned time.

Flee a knife, charge a gun.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

First, let's not forget that statistically school shootings are extremely rare. Second, when there is a school shooting the vast majority of kids escape. Third, in the event of an attack the kids throwing the cans will be targeted. If suicidal defense measures are what they are looking for than a much more effect defense would be to teach everyone to just charge the attacker.

I am personally fine with trained teachers being armed but I would prefer the focus be on ensuring schools have as many avenues of egress as possible.

 

[Lutherf]

First, let's not forget that statistically school shootings are extremely rare. Second, when there is a school shooting the vast majority of kids escape. Third, in the event of an attack the kids throwing the cans will be targeted. If suicidal defense measures are what they are looking for than a much more effect defense would be to teach everyone to just charge the attacker.

I am personally fine with trained teachers being armed but I would prefer the focus be on ensuring schools have as many avenues of egress as possible.

Out of curiosity, have you ever tried to shoot someone who is moving and throwing stuff at you?

 

[joko104]

Out of curiosity, have you ever tried to shoot someone who is moving and throwing stuff at you?

I'll pass on the topic of my own possibly relevant personal experiences and direct observations in such regards.

If they were going to train kids anything, it would be for them to collectively rush the shooter. Throwing things along with this, sure.

If YOU are the ONLY person who throws something, the shooter is going after you. That kid couldn't both keep throwing things and running away at the same time. So if something is going to be thrown, it should be in conjunction with throwing it and rushing the shooter.

 

[Amadeus]

the dead bodies in the wake of mass knife attacks disagrees with you. Regardless...if your 'response' is to cower vs meet aggression with aggression, you will most likely end up as a statistic.

I said to equip the school with bulletproof shields, and to train people (possibly even students) on how to deal with threatening situations. Maybe if you actually read my response you'd know my position instead of guessing at it.

Finally, if knives and guns are equal, why do people hunt with guns instead of knives?

 

[VanceMack]

I said to equip the school with bulletproof shields, and to train people (possibly even students) on how to deal with threatening situations. Maybe if you actually read my response you'd know my position instead of guessing at it.

Finally, if knives and guns are equal, why do people hunt with guns instead of knives?

No one said they were 'equal'...just no less lethal in a person on person attack. Feel free to read the accounts offered as evidence. Comparing hunting to a violent person on person attack is probably the single most foolish thing I have read on this site in a long long time.

Id love to see how the 'shield' idea works. I think the idea of secure doors someone else mentioned works also.

 

[Amadeus]

No one said they were 'equal'...just no less lethal in a person on person attack.

I'm tired of going around in circles with you on this. A gun can kill many people, faster, from a greater distance, and with less effort. What is so hard to understand about that?

Feel free to read the accounts offered as evidence.

I didn't read them because they are not relevant to my argument.

Comparing hunting to a violent person on person attack is probably the single most foolish thing I have read on this site in a long long time.

I'm not comparing hunting to a violent person on a killing spree. I'm comparing the effectiveness of a gun to a knife.

 

[VanceMack]

I'm tired of going around in circles with you on this. A gun can kill many people, faster, from a greater distance, and with less effort. What is so hard to understand about that?



I didn't read them because they are not relevant to my argument.



I'm not comparing hunting to a violent person on a killing spree. I'm comparing the effectiveness of a gun to a knife.

I cited 9 specific instances in 2014 alone that countered your rhetoric.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

Out of curiosity, have you ever tried to shoot someone who is moving and throwing stuff at you?

Moving? Yes. Throwing stuff at me? No.

But I get what you are saying. But i would think if you have enough room to zig zag around you probably have enough room to run away. The most dangerous situation, I would think, is being stuck in a classroom with no windows. Zigging and zagging won't do you much good in there.

I'm not saying there is no situation in which a can of soup would be helpful, but I think it would be an unlikely situation in an already unlikely scenario.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Can canned goods stop school shooters? - CNN.com

Really.

I looked for The Onion disclaimer. It isn't there. Anyone think CNN got punked?

There is not a facepalm in the world dramatic enough for this idea.

If you're going to provide weapons to those who might come under attack, with which to defend themselves, then wouldn't it make sense for these “weapons” to be actual weapons that are suitable for this purpose?

Don't bring a can of soup to a gunfight.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Maybe food cans in a pillowcase.

But,how soon will the Leftists regulate the number of cans allowed in the pillowcase?

Or, since canned food is now being weaponized; how long before the same “zero tolerance” idiocy that results in schoolkids being arrested for biting a Pop Tart into the shape of a gun get applied in such a way as to make possession of a can of food into a similarly serious offense?

 

[radcen]

Actually taking it outside of the box, it's not that bad of an idea for self defense. If they are barricaded in a classroom with limited resources for defense, having a couple of canned goods at hand instead of more traditional weapons of defense is kind of a good alternative.

That was how I took it. Not as Plan A, but as Plan B if that's all you have handy at the moment. Let's get real, getting knocked on the noggin with a soup can would seriously hurt.

 

[Fiddytree]

It is heart-stoppingly depressing that school shootings have gotten so normal and so acceptable as a mode of reality that we're teaching 11-year-olds to think as if they were dropped in Baghdad for 8 hours of every day, rather than trying to get some sort of education.

And still no one has considered the idea of making a serious effort to try to figure out why this keeps happening, and fixing it. Like it's just normal for there to be a massacre in a school every couple months, as if this is universal, and has always been the case.

It isn't. This isn't something everplace deals with. It hasn't always been this way. And rather than ask why our society is sick, why children keep getting gunned down in what is supposed to be a safe place, we just tell them to deal with it and throw canned food.

I just can't ****ing believe this is where we've gotten to. Dead kids -- who cares, right? If it's under 10, it wasn't even a bad one. Carry on, give them a can of beans, they'll be fine. If it's over 10, someone get up on a podium and cry some crocodile tears about how sad it all is, and then just forget about it.

Just holy ****...

School shootings are exceedingly rare, but there are professionals out there who are researching it and developing solutions (including methods of dealing with the surrounding community's distress). Several months ago I was at a presentation from a gentleman who had been apart of the team that responded to one of the shootings from the last few years. Everything from early interventions, finding the specific target group you want, what kind of interventions work, to dealing with the confusion as the events are unfolding, and so on. They found out which groups of support were helpful, which ones weren't (hint: Preachers don't always have the training to deal with persons who have experienced trauma and may say a great many bad things). There's even work out there about the recognition that in the coming days, weeks and months the entire community suffers as a result (where many people quit their jobs or develop their own trauma without having been directly involved in the path of the shooting). We're still figuring it out, but there's plenty of work being done on this away from conscious public view.

It's all out there, but you're not going to hear about it on the news. It won't be in the public consciousness, because frankly, the media isn't set up that way and most people don't care enough until the next event.

 

[Amadeus]

I cited 9 specific instances in 2014 alone that countered your rhetoric.

No, you didn't cite anything that disproves the undeniable fact that guns are superior to knives. Enough with the denials. It's embarrassing.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

No, you didn't cite anything that disproves the undeniable fact that guns are superior to knives. Enough with the denials. It's embarrassing.

MythBusters Episode 188: Duel Dilemmas

A person armed with a knife cannot win a fight against a person carrying a pistol.

BUSTED​

​

As Jamie practiced knife-throwing techniques, Adam made a leather belt holster and worked on quick-drawing with a paintball pistol. They then faced off against each other, standing 16 ft (4.9 m) apart; Jamie used water balloons with the same weight as his knives. Even though Jamie could throw before Adam drew and fired, after several trials Adam was able to shoot Jamie and dodge the thrown balloon.

Next they investigated the scenario of a charging knife wielder. Adam and Jamie determined that Jamie could run 24 ft (7.3 m) before Adam could draw, ****, and fire his pistol. When Jamie ran at Adam with a foam knife from this distance, Adam was able to shoot him; a second test at 20 ft (6.1 m) gave the same result. However, when Jamie started at distances of 16 ft (4.9 m) or less, he successfully stabbed Adam without being shot. They decided that a knife wielder at close quarters could have an advantage over a gunfighter, depending on the circumstances, and declared the myth busted.​

 

[Amadeus]

MythBusters Episode 188: Duel Dilemmas

Is this supposed to prove something, or am I looking at a red herring?

 

[Fiddytree]

Is this supposed to prove something, or am I looking at a red herring?

You're looking at "Science for Dummies." Stressing the dummies portion.

 

[Amadeus]

You're looking at "Science for Dummies." Stressing the dummies portion.

Meaning what? Sorry, I don't get what you're saying. Dim it down for me.

 

[joko104]

This involves middle school/junior high students - and I've figured out what MOST annoys me about it:

They won't spend the money for armed security. They are convinced all the staff at the school are too incompetent and unreliable to train. So...

Now my biggest complaint, particularly since these are middle/junior high aged kids, not high school.

Shouldn't they have told the TEACHERS AND STAFF to bring a canned item so the TEACHERS AND STAFF could throw cans at the armed intruder, while shouting for the children to flee - instead of the kids throwing cans at the armed gunman to give the teachers and staff a chance to flee? Don't they have it backwards as to WHO is more important?:x

 

[VanceMack]

No, you didn't cite anything that disproves the undeniable fact that guns are superior to knives. Enough with the denials. It's embarrassing.

9 instances of mass stabbings with as many if not more ADULT victims than the mass shootings. But feel free to remain ignorant.

Jung had a saying...we can forgive the child afraid of the dark. The tragic is the adult afraid of the light.