LA couple moves to Mexico over deportation fears

[Linuxcooldude]

Immigration agents are there to enforce an imaginary line.

Humans are the only species on the planet that honor borders because they are all made up.

Not true. Animals also have territories they often mark and defend. Like wolves.

 

[Jezcoe]

Well immigration agents are there to help immigrants which is a legal status. This conversation is about illegal aliens and has nothing at all whatsoever to do with immigration.

Border patrol and ice deal with illegal aliens.

Our current system is designed to inflict possibly the most harm on those who are determined by the State to be "illegal"

It doesn't have to be that way.

There's quite a few species that are territorial and will absolutely kill each other for invading their space.

Humans are the most civilized about it at least in the US.

The Opening move of this administration was to black bag people and send them to a foreign gulag to die.

Not very civil.

 

[CLAX1911]

Our current system is designed to inflict possibly the most harm on those who are determined by the State to be "illegal"

So you show me in the law and in practice where the government is not just permitted to but actively slaying illegal aliens.

If you can't show that then it's not the most harm.

It doesn't have to be that way.

It isn't that way. Being returned to your country is not harmful to you.

The Opening move of this administration was to black bag people and send them to a foreign gulag to die.

The worst of the worst yes.

Not very civil.

They could have just slain them.

Do you know what happens if you get caught sneaking into North Korea or out of North Korea?

 

[CLAX1911]

Not true. Animals also have territories they often mark and defend. Like wolves.

Yeah I don't think he thought that one through.

No animal draws a line and says we'll stay on our side and you stay on your side they fight each other many of them to the death.

The border is to prevent that it's a more civilized way of doing this he doesn't like to believe so and I don't know what's motivating this thought. I think it's dislike of our culture but that's just a guess.

 

[Jezcoe]

Not true. Animals also have territories they often mark and defend. Like wolves.

We don't care what wolves think and wolves don't care what we think.

Nothing shows just how imaginary all of this like looking at the town of Beebe Plain or the Vennbahn in Germany... which is literally a road that is part of Belgium which creates German Exclaves so weird that there is a person's house that is in Germany but surrounded by Belgium.

It's all made up and we get to decide what to do about.

We can decide to be cruel or we can have a policy that reflects actual real world movements of human migration.

 

[Jezcoe]

So you show me in the law and in practice where the government is not just permitted to but actively slaying illegal aliens.

If you can't show that then it's not the most harm.

Didn't Texas put death buoys in the Rio Grande?

The worst of the worst yes.

How do you know that? We know that most of the people sent to CECOT have no criminal record.

They could have just slain them.

Do you know what happens if you get caught sneaking into North Korea or out of North Korea?

Since we don't do things nearly as bad as a dictatorship doesn't mean that the US policy should be to cause harm.

 

[CLAX1911]

We don't care what wolves think and wolves don't care what we think.

It wasn't stated to point out that wolves care what people think you said were the only species that has territory you are mistaken that was said to correct you.

Nothing shows just how imaginary all of this like looking at the town of Beebe Plain or the Vennbahn in Germany... which is literally a road that is part of Belgium which creates German Exclaves so weird that there is a person's house that is in Germany but surrounded by Belgium.

What's the argument here?

It's all made up and we get to decide what to do about.

And we have we did this thing called an election there was a person running on attempting to eject illegal aliens. There was another person of the previous administration running on more of the same of what they did which included ejecting illegal aliens.

Good when the people all got together and voted for who they wanted to lead they voted for the person that made ejecting illegal aliens a primary point of his campaign.

So we decided what to do when it was up to us

We can decide to be cruel or we can have a policy that reflects actual real world movements of human migration.

We decided. Illegals got to go.

 

[CLAX1911]

Didn't Texas put death buoys in the Rio Grande?

What's the death buoy?

How do you know that?

Same way anyone knows anything

We know that most of the people sent to CECOT have no criminal record.

So nobody recorded their criminal activities? So foreign terrorists are allowed to be here as long as we have no record of their terrorism? But do know about their involvement with a terrorist organization and that they are foreign Invaders?

Since we don't do things nearly as bad as a dictatorship doesn't mean that the US policy should be to cause harm.

We Don't come close.

The fact that we make sure the worst offenders get a safe flight to the prison we put them in means we do it better than anyone else on the planet.

 

[Jezcoe]

It wasn't stated to point out that wolves care what people think you said were the only species that has territory you are mistaken that was said to correct you.

Only humans recognize human made borders because humans made them up.

What's the argument here?

That borders are completely made up. They are a fiction.

And we have we did this thing called an election there was a person running on attempting to eject illegal aliens. There was another person of the previous administration running on more of the same of what they did which included ejecting illegal aliens.

Good when the people all got together and voted for who they wanted to lead they voted for the person that made ejecting illegal aliens a primary point of his campaign.

So we decided what to do when it was up to us

Yes... Cruelty won.

I am well aware of that.

What I am asking is how is it making the US a better place to get rid of people who have lived here most of their lives being productive and keeping their head down?

We decided. Illegals got to go.

Why? A person who came here 20 years ago to make a better life and has had no trouble with the law does me no harm. Getting rid of them makes no one's life better.

 

[CLAX1911]

Only humans recognize human made borders because humans made them up.

Duh.

That borders are completely made up. They are a fiction.

Deal with it

Yes... Cruelty won.

No it lost

I am well aware of that.

What I am asking is how is it making the US a better place to get rid of people who have lived here most of their lives being productive and keeping their head down?

Disincentivizing human trafficking.
Freeing up housing for citizens.
Freeing up jobs for citizens.
Increasing wages for citizens.
Removes criminal elements.

Ends a subclass of humans that you can pay less and treat like dirt so you can undercut the American worker.

You'll have to show me how doing these things is cruelty.

Why? A person who came here 20 years ago to make a better life and has had no trouble with the law does me no harm. Getting rid of them makes no one's life better.

I pause it he didn't come here to make a better life. 20 years he knew his status wasn't legal he could have changed it at any point and chose not to. That indicates laziness and disregard for our laws removal of this person voluntarily apparently is a good thing.

If he wanted his life to be better why did he squander the opportunity?

 

[Jezcoe]

What's the death buoy?

Body found stuck in buoys Texas installed in the Rio Grande

Texas authorities believe the person drowned upstream and floated into the buoys near Eagle Pass. Mexico criticized Texas’ placement of the buoys along the river.

www.texastribune.org

So nobody recorded their criminal activities? So foreign terrorists are allowed to be here as long as we have no record of their terrorism? But do know about their involvement with a terrorist organization and that they are foreign Invaders?

Why do anyone want to give the State to authority to simply declare a person a criminal without a shred of evidence and send them to a foreign gulag?

Andry Hernandez Romero entered this country legally by the rules set forth by the Biden Administration. He made an appointment for an asylum case using the app that the US government put out and presented himself at a port of entry when the US Government told him to report for his appointment. He was taken into custody while awaiting his asylum hearing. Then after Trump gets elected, the US Government declares him to be a criminal and sends him to CECOT.

Why should the government have the power to declare anyone a criminal or a terrorist without due process?

Why support that?

The fact that we make sure the worst offenders get a safe flight to the prison we put them in means we do it better than anyone else on the planet.

Andry Hernandez Romero is a gay makeup artist who was fleeing persecution.

He wasn't some secret criminal that somehow didn't have his criminal activities written down... he was following the rules that he was given.

 

[Jezcoe]

Disincentivizing human trafficking.

Making the border hard to cross incentivizes trafficking.

Freeing up housing for citizens.

That's a weird complaint. We could you know always just build more.

Freeing up jobs for citizens.

Unemployment has been very low for quite a long time now.

Increasing wages for citizens.

Unionize everyone

Removes criminal elements.

Very few immigrants are criminals

Ends a subclass of humans that you can pay less and treat like dirt so you can undercut the American worker.

Unionize everyone.

 

[ClaraD]

Yes if you are in the country illegally you must leave. Good.

You stated something untrue. I corrected you on your disinformation.
Also, its not good for this country, so not good.
Before you jump back at me about it I want to see you spplying and trying to get hired on these type jobs.

 

[CLAX1911]

Body found stuck in buoys Texas installed in the Rio Grande

Texas authorities believe the person drowned upstream and floated into the buoys near Eagle Pass. Mexico criticized Texas’ placement of the buoys along the river.

www.texastribune.org

I didn't ask about how someone drowned in the river and then was founded next to an ordinary buoy you were talking about death movies I'm imagining something with a gun turret attached to it do you have anything like that?

Why do anyone want to give the State to authority to simply declare a person a criminal without a shred of evidence and send them to a foreign gulag?

Nobody does, there is evidence.

Andry Hernandez Romero entered this country legally by the rules set forth by the Biden Administration.

The Biden administration is over.

He made an appointment for an asylum case using the app that the US government put out and presented himself at a port of entry when the US Government told him to report for his appointment. He was taken into custody while awaiting his asylum hearing. Then after Trump gets elected, the US Government declares him to be a criminal and sends him to CECOT.

And you think they did not just because they're evil?

I'm not with you on this idea that reality is a cartoon and villains just do evil for the fun of it.

We don't have to hear asylum claims if it's determined someone has a connection with a foreign terrorist organization we definitely don't have to sponsor citizenship or refugee status.

Why should the government have the power to declare anyone a criminal or a terrorist without due process?

It doesn't.

Why support that?

Lack of suicidal ideation.

Andry Hernandez Romero is a gay makeup artist who was fleeing persecution.

And this means he's not part of a terrorist organization because?

He wasn't some secret criminal that somehow didn't have his criminal activities written down...

I don't think it was secret.

he was following the rules that he was given.

Okay so that means he's not a terrorist not affiliated with a terrorist organization how exactly?

 

[CLAX1911]

Making the border hard to cross incentivizes trafficking.

No making it easy to cross incentivizes that.

That's a weird complaint. We could you know always just build more.

They can in their home country too.

Unemployment has been very low for quite a long time now.

By what metric? People actually seeking a job and everyone that's just given up don't count?

Unionize everyone

That doesn't work out too well.

Have you stopped to wonder why everything you own is a made in China?

Very few immigrants are criminals

But some are and they can be the most vicious you'll ever meet.

Unionize everyone.

Communism isn't the solution that gets people killed.

 

[Jezcoe]

And you think they did not just because they're evil?

What should we call sending people to a foreign gulag?

It's not a thing that the good guys do.

Saying that Andry Hernandez Romero is a terrorist is just wild.

It is well known terrorists present themselves at the border to be taken into custody while their asylum claim is reviewed.

 

[Jezcoe]

No making it easy to cross incentivizes that.

How? If people can simply walk over a border without consequence then how does that increase trafficking?

That doesn't work out too well.

Have you stopped to wonder why everything you own is a made in China?

Because the government serves the Billionaire class and not the people.

Hey... lets get rid of the Billionaires. They cause a lot of problems.

Communism isn't the solution that gets people killed.

Labor Unions aren't communism. They are Capitalist.

What would be Communist is if the Labor Unions took over the means of production.

 

[CLAX1911]

What should we call sending people to a foreign gulag?

National security.

It's not a thing that the good guys do.

Unless they are foreign terrorists

Saying that Andry Hernandez Romero is a terrorist is just wild.

Why?

It is well known terrorists present themselves at the border to be taken into custody while their asylum claim is reviewed.

Could they?

 

[CLAX1911]

How?

More people are willing and pay the traffickers of they are just going to be returned they likely wouldn't waste the money

If people can simply walk over a border without consequence then how does that increase trafficking?

They can't, they have to evade capture

Because the government serves the Billionaire class and not the people.

By providing them with a slave class that can't seek legal help?

Hey... lets get rid of the Billionaires. They cause a lot of problems.

Okay Mao

Labor Unions aren't communism. They are Capitalist.

No capitalism is trading things of value

What would be Communist is if the Labor Unions took over the means of production.

So if a labor union strikes they should just be fired?

 

[Jezcoe]

National security.

Unless they are foreign terrorists

Why?

Could they?

The excuses about sending Andry Hernandez Romero to CECOT have fallen apart.

No one pretends that he is a criminal or terrorist.

The US government ****ed it up because there are those out there who a gladly giving the State the power to simply declare a person a criminal and mete out punishment without due process because immigrants are scary.

It would be stupid if it weren't so cruel.

 

[Jezcoe]

More people are willing and pay the traffickers of they are just going to be returned they likely wouldn't waste the money

If one can freely travel over a border why would there be a need for traffickers?

By providing them with a slave class that can't seek legal help?

By organizing the entire system to benefit them.

Okay Mao

There can still be Millionaires.

No capitalism is trading things of value

Labor is a thing of value.

So if a labor union strikes they should just be fired?

They tried that in the old days... led to a bunch of violence and people getting killed.

Seems like we have to relearn lessons every few generations or so.

 

[Jack2aTee]

You do realize that people who came here illegally are in fact criminals right?

It's a matter of definition. Is a mother who steals a loaf of bread so she can feed her starving child a criminal?

 

[CLAX1911]

The excuses about sending Andry Hernandez Romero to CECOT have fallen apart.

You haven't argued against them. So far you're reasons for why he not in a foreign terrorist organization is, he's gay, he's an artist, the Biden administration let him in.

None of these things have anything to do with whether he's a member of a terrorist organization.

No one pretends that he is a criminal or terrorist.

Who's pretending?

The US government ****ed it up because there are those out there who a gladly giving the State the power to simply declare a person a criminal and mete out punishment without due process because immigrants are scary.

Foreign terrorists aren't entitled to due process.

It would be stupid if it weren't so cruel.

Emotional pleading doesn't work on me.

Your just declaring things you wish to be true and saying people are cruel for not having blind faith in your claims.

 

[CLAX1911]

If one can freely travel over a border why would there be a need for traffickers?

They can't freely travel over that boarder.

By organizing the entire system to benefit them.

So execute them?

There can still be Millionaires.

Well then they'll be the problem. This mistake has been made before.

Labor is a thing of value.

So what would you need a union for?

They tried that in the old days... led to a bunch of violence and people getting killed.

So it's not capitalism it's fascism. Fire is and we'll kill you doesn't sing like a peaceful arrangement.

Seems like we have to relearn lessons every few generations or so.

Mao tried what you suggested just 50 years ago. It doesn't work.

 

[Jezcoe]

You haven't argued against them. So far you're reasons for why he not in a foreign terrorist organization is, he's gay, he's an artist, the Biden administration let him in.

None of these things have anything to do with whether he's a member of a terrorist organization.

The Biden Administration didn't "let him in". He was in custody awaiting his asylum hearing.

The Government has presented no proof that he is a criminal or a terrorist.

Once again... why let the Government have that power?

Foreign terrorists aren't entitled to due process.

Yes they are.

Why would you want the government to have the power to simply declare a person a terrorist and ship them to a foreign prison?