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LA bans store pet sales from commercial breeders

Here's the funny part. The city is thinking that passing this law will do anything to fix the problem they see. Really it won't. People who can afford to buy these purebred puppies can afford cars. They can shop elsewhere for them. Does the city think that because the local pet stores no longer have puppies from puppy mills the rich are suddenly going to say to their driver, "Take me to the pound so I can adopt a mutt." Oh hell no.

One of our local independent pet stores has a ready supply of "turned in" puppies and kittens that they sell, I was in there yesterday and they had a pile of kittens and a couple of puppies. Last week I was teaching them how to hand-rear a couple of 2-week old kittens they ended up with. These never last long, even though it is more expensive to buy them at the shop than it is to go a couple of blocks to the local animal shelter and get one. Also, what's going to stop these small pet shops from just breeding their own stock? The law wouldn't be able to stop them. It just might make more backyard breeders.
 
California has Republicans and "right wingers". Lots of them. People seem to forget that small "annoying" fact.
Could be why California has not taken a complete economic slide into the Pacific......yet.
Not to worry, so many of them are leaving (and taking their productivity with them) that California will soon enough be home to the next Detroits etc.

Yes, there are lots of conservatives in California, primarily in Southern California. Orange County in particular, but also the Inland Empire, are chock full of them. However, all the power is in Northern California, which is decidedly hyper-liberal. That's why there has been a movement for years to split the state into liberal Northern California and sane Southern California.


All of it under liberal leadership. There's a reason California is so screwed up.
 
You think people wanting to prevent animal cruelty would deliberately write a law requiring a group of animals be put down for no reason?

I don't know the reasoning behind the law, so no I don't know what people think.

What group kills more animals in the US than any other?
 
I don't know the reasoning behind the law, so no I don't know what people think.

What group kills more animals in the US than any other?

Exterminators?
 
One of our local independent pet stores has a ready supply of "turned in" puppies and kittens that they sell, I was in there yesterday and they had a pile of kittens and a couple of puppies. Last week I was teaching them how to hand-rear a couple of 2-week old kittens they ended up with. These never last long, even though it is more expensive to buy them at the shop than it is to go a couple of blocks to the local animal shelter and get one. Also, what's going to stop these small pet shops from just breeding their own stock? The law wouldn't be able to stop them. It just might make more backyard breeders.

Great. But is that going to change the mind of that buyer that wants a pedigreed dog? Not likely. What they have done is make it to where people who want one will simply drive to the next city or county. Psst - Did the Obama's adopt a shelter dog or two?
 
Great. But is that going to change the mind of that buyer that wants a pedigreed dog? Not likely. What they have done is make it to where people who want one will simply drive to the next city or county. Psst - Did the Obama's adopt a shelter dog or two?

Most people who want pedigreed dogs already go to breeders, which isn't affected by the new law. Most people who buy from pet stores couldn't care less. And while I could easily afford to buy anything I want, almost every animal I have ever gotten came from a shelter, or off of the street. Lots of people think like that.
 
Great. But is that going to change the mind of that buyer that wants a pedigreed dog? Not likely. What they have done is make it to where people who want one will simply drive to the next city or county. Psst - Did the Obama's adopt a shelter dog or two?

I thought people went right to the breeder.

How else do you know you are getting a good dog?
 
Most people who want pedigreed dogs already go to breeders, which isn't affected by the new law. Most people who buy from pet stores couldn't care less. And while I could easily afford to buy anything I want, almost every animal I have ever gotten came from a shelter, or off of the street. Lots of people think like that.

I didn't really have a choice.

Over the years dogs have come to my house asking for help and I had to give it to them.

2 of them would have been dead in a matter of hours or days if I hadn't done something and they both turned out to be wonderful dogs.

Get a dog that remembers how hard it was to find food and water in the street and you have the most dedicated dog to you that you would ever want.

I now have 6 dogs and 2 cats.

They are a happy pack.

I would never buy a dog from anywhere.

Street dogs are the smartest and that is all I care about. I don't care what color they are or what size they are, just that they have a good personality and are smart.

Pure bred dogs for the most part have genetic problems, and I don't need that hassle.
 
I didn't really have a choice.

Over the years dogs have come to my house asking for help and I had to give it to them.

2 of them would have been dead in a matter of hours or days if I hadn't done something and they both turned out to be wonderful dogs.

Get a dog that remembers how hard it was to find food and water in the street and you have the most dedicated dog to you that you would ever want.

I now have 6 dogs and 2 cats.

They are a happy pack.

I would never buy a dog from anywhere.

Street dogs are the smartest and that is all I care about. I don't care what color they are or what size they are, just that they have a good personality and are smart.

Pure bred dogs for the most part have genetic problems, and I don't need that hassle.

I've got 4 dogs and 6 cats, all of them from shelters, off the streets, or given to us by friends. And yes, they all know they've got a good thing and aren't going anywhere.
 
Exactly how do you expect to do that? Backyard breeders don't get licenses and they sell to other people who don't care about licenses. Cars operate on public highways. Individual homes are private property. Pets are private property. You cannot stop them from breeding if they want to.

Same as anything else. First, you make it a rule so that most people will follow it. Then you heavily disincentive the rest, through fines. If you get caught, you pay. Whats the alternative?
 
How? It's not telling pet stores they can't sell animals, it's making laws around the supply of animals.

I can't count the number of times I've walked into a pet store and wondered, "why are people buying these animals instead of animals at a shelter?" Finally LA has a solution, an obvious one that I hadn't considered.

I also can't understand why anyone would have a problem with this law. You seem to be disagreeing with it on principle, but is there any other reason?

None of your G*D Damn business!

Jesus H Christ. my dog came from a pet store, she means the world to me, are you going to tell me I'm wrong for having a pet store pet, you going to tell me to go put her to sleep and adopt the pet you would adopt?
 
Same as anything else. First, you make it a rule so that most people will follow it. Then you heavily disincentive the rest, through fines. If you get caught, you pay. Whats the alternative?

Deal with reality?
 
Los Angeles Permanently Bans the Sale of Non-Rescue Cats & Dogs | The Catington Post

Interesting idea. People already hashed this out in the comments section, so I'll summarize it here. On the one hand, what's the deal with telling a pet store what it can and cannot sell? On the other hand, we already do that with laws against exotic animals and what not.

This seems like a really sensible way to deal with overcrowding in shelters while still letting individuals seek out private pet breeders if they want to.

I think it's more than fair for the government to be more hands-on when what is being "sold" are living, breathing, feeling creatures. Especially when our present manner of selling them contributes to their continued suffering, death, and abandonment.

I think this is great. It will reduce the profitability of breeding, which will both increase the health of animals (do you have any idea how inbred and poorly a lot of those animals are?), and reduce their overpopulation thus reducing their abandonment rates. This has already been done successfully in many cities, and even a couple of entire countries.

Yes, it will probably put some breeders out of business. But frankly, we need that, if we're ever going to get the abandoned animal problem under control.

People can whine all they want that it's "invasive" against businesses, but when your product is living creatures, you don't get to treat them the same way you'd treat a pair of shoes. I don't care if it's "invasive." Living things should have a certain degree of respect afforded to them. Little pieces of green paper are not more important than another creature's life.
 
The Animal Control Shelters have a different model of sales. Either someone buys it and soon or it gets... well, dead. That's so much better.
 
I think it's more than fair for the government to be more hands-on when what is being "sold" are living, breathing, feeling creatures. Especially when our present manner of selling them contributes to their continued suffering, death, and abandonment.

I think this is great. It will reduce the profitability of breeding, which will both increase the health of animals (do you have any idea how inbred and poorly a lot of those animals are?), and reduce their overpopulation thus reducing their abandonment rates. This has already been done successfully in many cities, and even a couple of entire countries.

Yes, it will probably put some breeders out of business. But frankly, we need that, if we're ever going to get the abandoned animal problem under control.

People can whine all they want that it's "invasive" against businesses, but when your product is living creatures, you don't get to treat them the same way you'd treat a pair of shoes. I don't care if it's "invasive." Living things should have a certain degree of respect afforded to them. Little pieces of green paper are not more important than another creature's life.

Except it doesn't actually do any of that. It doesn't single out puppy mills and badly bred animals, it just says *NO* commercial breeders, meaning anyone who breeds for money, can sell to pet stores in LA. That includes perfectly responsible breeders who produce the best animals. That includes professionals who breed for show and only keep, at best, one animal out of each litter and may sell the rest to pet stores. These are perfectly good pure-bred dogs and cats with no problems at all, yet they are now banned. Do you think they're going to stop breeding? Of course not. Now they're just going to sell directly to the consumer, they're going to make more money cutting out the middle man, and the problem will continue unabated.
 
The Animal Control Shelters have a different model of sales. Either someone buys it and soon or it gets... well, dead. That's so much better.

Not necessarily, there are a lot of no kill shelters out there.
 
The reason is because people want pure breeds and puppies. You dont generally find those in a shelter. My local one has 95% Chows and Pit Bull mixes, mostly older dogs.I

Supply and Demand.

I dont really care what some other state does, but I would oppose it here because I dont think govt should be telling people what they can and cant sell. So long as the animals are treated humanely, breed them and sell them. I do think people need to be prohibited from owning un-neutured dogs and cats, though.

Why? Your two statements contradict each each other.
 
Reality is rabid animals running wild, dog catchers, shelters and euthenasia.

Yes, that's reality. But you don't solve that by stopping pet stores from buying from commercial breeders and pretend you've accomplished something.
 
Except it doesn't actually do any of that. It doesn't single out puppy mills and badly bred animals, it just says *NO* commercial breeders, meaning anyone who breeds for money, can sell to pet stores in LA. That includes perfectly responsible breeders who produce the best animals. That includes professionals who breed for show and only keep, at best, one animal out of each litter and may sell the rest to pet stores. These are perfectly good pure-bred dogs and cats with no problems at all, yet they are now banned. Do you think they're going to stop breeding? Of course not. Now they're just going to sell directly to the consumer, they're going to make more money cutting out the middle man, and the problem will continue unabated.

Yeah, I know. And all commercial breeding is ethically questionable in a society where we have such a glut of domestic animals, bred purely for the pleasure of humans, that we kill them in vast numbers because we have nowhere else to put them. There's no such thing as a responsible breeder in a situation like that. People who breed for show are actually some of the worst, in terms of inbreeding and crippling their animals. The monstrosities they create are appalling; animals whose brains don't fit inside their skulls, animals who can't breathe, can't birth, can't even walk, purely because that's what the judges want to see.

Fine, some of them will sell directly. But no, it doesn't help their profit. Again, we know this because it's been done in dozens of places. People want easy, and easy is going to the nearest pet shop or shelter and perusing. The entire reason breeders sell to pet stores is because they are more likely to be able to sell their animals through a big box company than they are on their own.

If it were easy for them to sell direct, they would, because then they wouldn't have to compete as hard on pricing. But they don't, because they know people aren't going to sit there and comb through postings if they can just show up somewhere they're already familiar with and look at a dozen different animals in one go. They don't, because if they try to sell them on their own, they're one tiny voice in a sea of other breeders all using the same channels to try to sell. It's like selling in Target versus selling on Etsy. Who tends to make more money?

Eliminating breeders' ability to sell them to pet stores cuts deeply into their profit margins. They to have to do all that advertising themselves through smaller channels against more competitors, fighting an uphill battle against the consumer's laziness, and they have to pay to raise the animals themselves (when they sell to the pet store, the pet store assumes the cost of a highly dependent little animal, and they can re-breed their stock sooner). Thus it will reduce how many breeders there are, thus it will reduce how many animals are bred, thus it will reduce how many are abandoned, thus it will reduce how many we kill for no reason. Again, this has been done in many places very successfully. When I say "very successfully," I mean these places have been able to abandon kill shelters entirely.

In actuality, lots of places have been doing this for decades and we have lots of successful proofs of concept. LA has been debating it for years. Glad to see they finally passed it.
 
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Not necessarily, there are a lot of no kill shelters out there.

A lot? Okay, toss out a percentage of the shelters that are no kill... Oh wait, it's a tiny number compared to the number of those that kill. Try again.
 
A lot? Okay, toss out a percentage of the shelters that are no kill... Oh wait, it's a tiny number compared to the number of those that kill. Try again.

I couldn't find a statistic on no kill shelters, but news flash for you, neither can you. Do you're just assuming that it's a tiny number without any actual data. You may be right, but at least try to be honest and not make claims without evidence.
 
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