Kamala's Bizarre 'Unrealized Gains Tax'

[VySky]

 

[ColdHardTruth]

We have trillions in debt because we reduced revenue collection.

We have trillions in debt because we spend far too much on military purchasing.

We have trillions of dollars in debt because we subsidize profitable business, paying for R&D, propping up crops, and other forms of corporate welfare.

This all needs to stop before we talk of cutting social net programs AGAIN.

There will be NO CUTS to social net programs.

The GQP can stay the hell away from those.

 

[ColdHardTruth]

View attachment 67530531

Baseless lies and bullshit being spread by the Nazi asshole who owns X.

 

[ColdHardTruth]

That is NOT how that works. You need civics classes.

Just ignore him.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

I dont need to do that. If you don't want to believe that Kamala adopted the UGT, then you can pretend that it never happened.

OR you can research it yourself.

Vice President Kamala Harris’ economic policy plans include a backing of President Joe Biden’s proposal to tax unrealized capital gains on the U.S.’ richest people, a plan unsurprisingly denounced by former President Donald Trump and his associates, though some criticism of the plan is rooted in misinformation.
Still, recent viral social media posts falsely claim the proposal will cause everyday Americans worth far below the threshold to feel impacts—the median American family has a net worth of $192,900, according to the Federal Reserve’s most recent data. Trump claimed at an Aug. 23 rally the Harris proposal on unrealized capital gains will impact “small business owners” who will be forced to sell their “restaurant immediately,” a seemingly misguided statement considering the small group the plan would impact
The idea of taxing the U.S.’ richest residents is generally popular, and a 2022 YouGov survey found 57% of Americans believe billionaires don’t pay enough in taxes.

What Is Unrealized Capital Gains Tax? Unpacking Kamala Harris-Backed Proposal On Ultra Wealthy

It’s “one of the worst tax ideas floating around,” the Trump administration’s top financial regulator said Tuesday, though the controversial policy would only affect a tiny fraction of the U.S. population.

www.forbes.com

 

[maquiscat]

It's tough inventing new taxes, and it's even tougher to get Americans to support them.

But Komrade Kamala has proposed a tax oddity so unique, and so remarkably stupid, that it's actually historic, in my opinion.

While I am in agreement with you that such a tax is harmful and would also filter its way down to the middle and lower classes, this is hardly history making or new. This has been advocated multiple times at a local or state level (I remember a variation where CT, I think, was going to add a tax for things like views and desirable locations to property, above and beyond actual property tax as an unrealized gain). It has actually been implemented in Europe before, specifically in Sweden and Germany in the 70's and 80's respectively. One of the major drawbacks was that many people found themselves owning taxes on non-liquid assets, but would only be able to pay them by liquidizing said assets. It basically crashed investment in anything other than short term

 

[maquiscat]

And?

His point is a valid one, when you look at the fact that many forms of taxation that was intended originally to affect the "rich" are soon brought down and down to be applied to the less and less rich. Can you name one tax (at least 20 years old) that has targeted the rich that hasn't had it's minimum threshold lowered?

 

[Callen]

His point is a valid one, when you look at the fact that many forms of taxation that was intended originally to affect the "rich" are soon brought down and down to be applied to the less and less rich. Can you name one tax (at least 20 years old) that has targeted the rich that hasn't had it's minimum threshold lowered?

There are two different issues here

Is a tax on unrealized Capitol gains a good idea. The answer is generally no.

Is Harris proposing one as part of her economic plan. The answer is not thus far that I can see.

 

[gbg3]

The Unrealized Gains Tax is embarrassing - the sheer stupidity of the plan - and that's why you want it to be false. But it's true. There are DOZENS of articles which confirm that.

Yes, it's true.

BTW.....want to spell out the specifics, on all UGC, some, everyone , kabillionairs.....what exactly is she proposing? You seem to know the details

Now, you keep moving the goal posts, and expect me to tell you "exactly" what she is proposing. LOL

Exactly ("moving the goal posts") with snark sprinkled on top.

 

[Callen]

Yes, it's true.



Exactly ("moving the goal posts") with snark sprinkled on top.

I did not move any goal posts . I simply asked the poster to back up his assertions. As for the snark , perhaps go back and review the tone and manner with which the poster chose to address me.

 

[gbg3]

One of the major drawbacks was that many people found themselves owning taxes on non-liquid assets, but would only be able to pay them by liquidizing said assets. It basically crashed investment in anything other than short term

Exactly right and what every decent economist has been discussing with passion for days now. It would destroy the "buy and hold" strategy which has been sensible and effective for so many.

 

[Callen]

Exactly right and what every decent economist has been discussing with passion for days now. It would destroy the "buy and hold" strategy which has been sensible and effective for so many.

Will someone, anyone making these assertions please provide something that shows she is proposing this as part of her election platform. I can find nothing. Perhaps , she has but why won't any of you provide a citation link ..anything to back this up?

 

[ModernDiogenes]

View attachment 67530531

Oh look, Janet Jackson.

(sorry, couldn't resist)

 

[gbg3]

This is different from the topic of this thread but I saw it this morning and thought it a good and short summary of what Harris discussed yesterday in NH.

I heard a discussion of her capital gains proposal last night and, despite her straying (lower) from the Biden plan on this top capital gains rate, her all in capital gains rate for top earners would be the highest since the 1970s.

In that same Kevin Hasset discussion last night, her new small business tax deduction proposal applying to new small businesses (and mentioned in this link below) cannot be fairly discussed without the discussion of the much larger negative tax impact on existing small businesses due to the 2025 ending of the Trump tax cuts, should those not be made permanent.

MSN

 

[Callen]

This is different from the topic of this thread but I saw it this morning and thought it a good and short summary of what Harris discussed yesterday in NH.

I heard a discussion of her capital gains proposal last night and, despite her straying (lower) from the Biden plan on this top capital gains rate, her all in capital gains rate for top earners would be the highest since the 1970s.

Yes it us different, totally different from the OP, talk about moving goal posts! Do you still support the OP and the notion that she is proposing a tax on unrealized capital gains? My sense is you posted your implied support without actually reading the entire thread and now are trying to back peddle. If she supported a tax on UCG's one would think she would have mentioned it yesterday wouldn't you.

 

[PoS]

That is NOT how that works. You need civics classes.

According to your god Kamala it does.

 

[Felis Leo]

Pardon me for not getting my panties in a twist about a tax proposed on a fraction of the 1%

The most oppressed minority of all: the moneyed few.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

According to your god Kamala it does.

I worked for politicians. No better way to be cured of any good complexes regarding them. I’m pretty sure they all suck.

 

[gbg3]

As per usual - this isn’t Kamala’s idea. Elizabeth Warren has been pushing this for a long time and it doesn’t make any economic sense no matter who parrots it.

Yeah, I remember it first coming up from Warren but maybe she wasn't even the first Dem to discuss it. Then the current administration rolled out their tax policy proposals in March, inclusive of taxing unrealized gains. At that time, it received a lot of news, including some feeling it was so ludicrous that they summed it up to a "that will never happen" scenario.

Harris discussed one change she'd make to those March proposals, yesterday in NH (see the short link in comment 64, if you missed her speech) and she discussed a new tax deduction for new small businesses, but that's all we yet know of any changes to the Biden/Harris administration March tax proposal.

So far, from Harris regarding policy, all we have in terms of changes from her previous strong statements and her previous policy support - are things like price controls, child tax credits of 10k, the two things she discussed in NH yesterday, no fracking (with no explanation as to why the radical change in that view), and $25,000 to first time homebuyers. I may be missing some things other posters can add, but it's been the drips and drabs information experience for voters.

Ro Khanna has been very vocal about his opposition to the taxing of unrealized gains (and why) - and his alternative ideas. Here he is discussing it very recently.

MSN

 

[Cosmo]

It is the best way to tax wealth. Do you think that people of massive wealth that don't earn income should live effectively tax free in America?

They don't, because they still pay:

• Sales tax
• Property tax
• (unless they keep it all in non-interest cash or only growth stocks) Income taxes on Dividends

 

[Cosmo]

The reason this is dumb is, well, there are plenty of reasons, but one is that it isn't a true representation of wealth. For example, Tesla has however many shares and the shares are worth X, however if Musk were to sell all of his shares, then the value would plummet as the price would have to be progressively lower for each share sold (since for every sale, there has to be a buyer). So Musk's functional wealth is not really share price x shares.

Also the market is cyclical, so what happens if this year the shares go from $1B to $2B, then $2B to $1B the next year, then $1B to $2B? Then $2B to $1B the following year? Does the taxpayer pay tax on $2B in gain ($1B/yr in the years of rising prices) even though his wealth is still what it was at the beginning? Does he get a credit on his tax return? Does he get the taxes paid back? It's a tax reporting nightmare.

But don't expect the commie eat the rich types on the left to understand any of this...

 

[Callen]

The reason this is dumb is, well, there are plenty of reasons, but one is that it isn't a true representation of wealth. For example, Tesla has however many shares and the shares are worth X, however if Musk were to sell all of his shares, then the value would plummet as the price would have to be progressively lower for each share sold (since for every sale, there has to be a buyer). So Musk's functional wealth is not really share price x shares.

Also the market is cyclical, so what happens if this year the shares go from $1B to $2B, then $2B to $1B the next year, then $1B to $2B? Then $2B to $1B the following year? Does the taxpayer pay tax on $2B in gain ($1B/yr in the years of rising prices) even though his wealth is still what it was at the beginning? Does he get a credit on his tax return? Does he get the taxes paid back? It's a tax reporting nightmare.

But don't expect the commie eat the rich types on the left to understand any of this...

There is no such proposal on the table........

 

[Cosmo]

There is no such proposal on the table........

I'm not sure Harris puts much "on the table." It's just the usual "tax the rich" and "fair share"-type vague slogans.

“It’s just not right that those who can most afford it are often paying a lower tax rate than our teachers and our nurses and our firefighters,” Harris said at a campaign event Wednesday in New Hampshire. “That’s why I support a billionaire minimum tax and corporations paying their fair share.”

"Billionaire" and "corporations" - typical leftist dog whistles.

 

[Grizzly Adams]

Pardon me for not getting my panties in a twist about a tax proposed on a fraction of the 1%

If you're not a Jew, why worry about the Holocaust?

 

[BirdinHand]

If you're not a Jew, why worry about the Holocaust?

What a weird attempt at a comparison.