Detroit has had a Democrat in the Mayor's office since January 2, 1962. That's 51 years! Your 2 points are also gross misrepresentations. Detroit has suffered from corruption and financial mismanagement for decades. They put all of their eggs in one basket with the auto industry and they lacked any vision what so ever once it became clear that the auto industry could not carry their water. Bringing up two republican governors from more than half a century ago is just plain hackery... and really, REALLY stupid hackery at that.
no, the creditors include every entity owed money by the city of detroit; from bond holders, to the office supply company which extends credit, to the current employees who are owed their wages, to the retirees who were promised a pension as part of the compensation for their laborThe creditors you are referring to are the bond holders. Whenever a city needs money for a construction project or something, they sell bonds. These bonds are bought by many different sources, most of which wind up being part of someone's IRA or 401k. It is incredibly inaccurate and disingenuous to refer to this as "corporate interests". Without bond holders the city could not function because municipal bonds provide the exclusive means that the city has used to finance itself.
and that is the point of the judge's ruling, based on the state constitution prohibiting any diminution of pension benefitsThere is going to have to be shared sacrifice here.
sure doesI just read that Detroit has annual revenues of about $1.1 billion and has been running a $300+ million dollar deficit and they're losing about $100 million in revenue every year due to population loss. Looks to me like their budget needs some drastic trimming.
i think the decision to file chapter 9 bankruptcy was the starting pointThis SHOULD be the starting point.
Of course the problem is economic! Find me a bankruptcy that isn't.:lol: As far as racism... meh. Racism doesn't cause economic meltdowns like this. Corruption, mismanagement, and poor planning does.By all means, find me an expert who agrees that the problem is not principally economic and racial.
Show me where I attacked Democrats.You wanna know what hackery is Jack. Its people who express the nonsense that you just did. Than and your denial of reality. In your blind desire to attack the Democrats you ignore the fact that the slide began with 2 republicans and then continued with the democrats. In point of fact, the problem is economic and racial and politicians of both stripes contributed to it, messed it up a bit, and sure did not help or reverse it.
Again, show me where I attacked Democrats. You can't. I didn't. You're just way over sensitive here because this whole mess is reflecting poorly upon the leadership of Detroit... which happens to be Democrat.But the worst sort of stupid hackery is the people who want to turn this into a hate the democratic party lynching when they conveniently ignore that 10% of the population was lost under two republican mayors and that was the BEGINNING of the slide.
I'll have it any way I want it and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. I'm not the one who checked out into Hacksterville here. That one's all you, buddy.So you just will NOT be allowed to have it both ways Jack. You will not.
I can accept that source as long as we all remember that haymarket supports this quote from that same source too: Unions helped drive a stake in the auto industry. We all know this, some just hate admitting it, I think there is a recent thread about "the myth that unions hurt the auto industry". What's important is that Detroit faced nothing that to some degree many other cities have faced to one degree or another. They were hit hardest, but everyone understands that's because they were so heavily invested in one specific industry. All their eggs in one basket, of course that was high risk, and the severity of the collapse directly related to that ultra-high-risk investment in that one industry. When it declined, people understandably left. Maybe you should have put in the constitution that the white taxpayers were forbidden to leave, or they still have to pay Detroit taxes once they move....I mean, why stop with insane, just go for bat-****-crazy?
By all means, find me an expert who agrees that the problem is not principally economic and racial.
Do it.
You wanna know what hackery is Jack. Its people who express the nonsense that you just did. Than and your denial of reality. In your blind desire to attack the Democrats you ignore the fact that the slide began with 2 republicans and then continued with the democrats. In point of fact, the problem is economic and racial and politicians of both stripes contributed to it, messed it up a bit, and sure did not help or reverse it.
But the worst sort of stupid hackery is the people who want to turn this into a hate the democratic party lynching when they conveniently ignore that 10% of the population was lost under two republican mayors and that was the BEGINNING of the slide.
So you just will NOT be allowed to have it both ways Jack. You will not.
...the fact that the slide began with 2 republicans and then continued with the democrats...
That I knew. I was speaking about your mentioning of a possible state bankruptcy proceeding.
Why doesn't Detroit just print some more? It works for the US. We print about 85 billion a month in funny money. That's working, isn't it?There...is...no...money.
Democrats just don't get the concept.
signs of progress
you can now admit that republicans as well as democrats are responsible for welfare, in its various forms. kudos for being able to finally admit that reality
now that you know about the kool aid, lay off of it
so, are you saying that having pensions is a bad thing?
if so, tell us why ... and explain what would be a better system to provide for those who are no longer employed
and it's obvious you have no understanding of basic economics
those employees already paid for those pensions
with years of their labor
now that they have satisfied their obligation to earn that income stream in their twilight years, when they are beyond the ability to return to their careers, you would opt to deny them the benefits they have paid for: with the sweat of their brow
your brand of compassionate conservatism has been found to be an illogical sham
based on your posts, you have yet to figure that out
really? you were asking a question and not making a statement?
it is a fabulous thing. its a constitutional provision to assure that those who have earned a pension can expect to receive it. ALL of it
it says pensioners have a right to the pension income they have earned by their labors
Perhaps this brand of socialism, like every other brand, was just not done by the right people. If only they had a little more power to make the lives of their citizens miserable. If only there had been a wall to keep the city's victims from escaping the tyranny.Detroit began its slide under two consecutive Republican mayors from 1950 through 1961. During that time, under Cobo and Mariani, Detroit lost 10% of its population. That was the beginning of the end of a trend that is still in effect today.
But to blame this on a party is silly as no mayor is responsible for the two huge factors that killed Detroit:
1 - economic desertion of the city causing it to be abandoned by business and the middle class
2 - deeply ingrained racial problems
It was those two things which have taken Detroit from 1.8 million down to just over 700,000. And that is not the fault of a Republican or Democratic mayor.
Perhaps this brand of socialism, like every other brand, was just not done by the right people. If only they had a little more power to make the lives of their citizens miserable. If only there had been a wall to keep the city's victims from escaping the tyranny.
Of course the problem is economic! Find me a bankruptcy that isn't.:lol: As far as racism... meh. Racism doesn't cause economic meltdowns like this. Corruption, mismanagement, and poor planning does.
Racism doesn't cause economic meltdowns like this. Corruption, mismanagement, and poor planning does.
By all means, find me an expert who agrees that the problem is not principally economic and racial.
A long term commitment back to the constitution is the only way to turn the mess around on a national level.
I'm sorry but 60 years of Liberal socialist mayors along with organized Labor aka the mob, running the show..... you cant possibly be claiming these people were following the letter of the constitution? lolDetroit's fiscal catastrophe has nothing to do with the U.S. constitution.
I'm sorry but 60 years of Liberal socialist mayors along with organized Labor aka the mob, running the show..... you cant possibly be claiming these people were following the letter of the constitution? lol
Lets compare your posts and mine.
earlier in the day I was challenged by another poster to supply evidence for the claim that race played a major role in Detorits downfall. I supplied at least a half dozen sources to document this including several award winning books on the subject.
What do you do in your post? Attack me for one. Failing to provide any evidence that it was corruption that was the major factor in Detroit declaring bankruptcy is the second. But its not too late. Lets see the objective verifiable evidence to support your claim that
So step up and show us.
As for your sensitivity about democrats - do you really think this is about you? This thread has been filled with people vilifying democrats which ignoring republicans. Got it?
I told you this in post 401 when you did not want to hear about the two main causes of Detroits problems
You have been woefully impotent to present that expert. Why is that?
I'm not saying that there hasn't been corruption. Indeed, corruption is being investigated with regard to some of the pension funds.
Detroit emergency manager launches pension corruption probe | Reuters
My point is that this fiscal crisis is much more than a matter of corruption. Corruption exacerbated Detroit's challenges, but the challenges had their roots beyond corruption e.g., dramatic population decline, particularly better educated persons.
Detroit began its slide under two consecutive Republican mayors from 1950 through 1961. During that time, under Cobo and Mariani, Detroit lost 10% of its population. That was the beginning of the end of a trend that is still in effect today.
But to blame this on a party is silly as no mayor is responsible for the two huge factors that killed Detroit:
1 - economic desertion of the city causing it to be abandoned by business and the middle class
2 - deeply ingrained racial problems
It was those two things which have taken Detroit from 1.8 million down to just over 700,000. And that is not the fault of a Republican or Democratic mayor.
Why does this sound a lot like blame Bush for the mess that was inherited, but never mind that was not simply a couple of years ago, but 50 years ago. You to have that race card in the deck, that surely explains the lack of accounting skills to see this comming and make necessary adjustments. When the rats are fleeing the sinking ship it might be wise to see to the leak; actually, in Detroit's case, it was more like the rats stayed but the crew fled.
Which still doesn't change the reality that THERE IS NO MONEY!
When are you going to get that through your head?
Absolutely. Every single ounce of my retirement planning is being done with the notion that my government pention will not actually occur. If it ends up still being something that is supported by the time I retire...excellent, bonus. But I'm RESPONSABLE enough and REALISTIC enough to understand that banking on being paid in perpetuity while I don't do a damn thing is a dumb exercise and not one I plan to partake in.
As a kid in his mid to late 20's I was already working with my wife in planning how we were going about planning for our retirement, and we're doing it without any expectation of my government pension. To me, that pension is a gamble just like any other form of retirement...not something I'm guaranteed.
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