Journalist Eva Bartlett interviews DPR Civilians on referendum to join Russia

[AmNat]

Well worth a look at for those who think that Russia forced people to vote in this referendum...



Eva's summary of the video:

**
Western commentators would do well to listen to them (but we know they won't). Summary:
-they waited 8 years for this
-they are tired of being bombed by Ukraine, they want peace & feel joining Russia will bring this
-they were not intimidated or forced to vote, many (like Syrians) faced potential shelling in order to do so, many volunteered in order to ensure the referendum went ahead
-they've long since given up caring what western commentators & "news" say about them (the same who whitewashed Ukraine's 8+ years of war crimes against the civilians of the Donbass).

For my commentary, see this recent interview:


**

Obviously the great majority of people in the Donbass support Russia. But no one cares what they think; for liberals, a legitimate election just is one they win. What the voters actually think has nothing to do with it.

 

[Geoist]

Why is it illegitimate?

I've already stated why. Refer back to my more recent posts.

As to the strong votes to join Russia in DPR and LPR, I think it stands to reason, considering that they've been attacked by their own alleged country for the past 8 years. Nothing like fearing for your life for 8 years to encourage you to join a country that is trying to get the bombings to stop.

Ukraine has been fighting pro-Russian insurrectionists. It's no different than how any other country would react. What is your stance on the Chechnyan War?

 

[Fledermaus]

Sure, though the source is the same, the Russian government, as they ran the referendum:

**
According to the results released by the Russian Central Election Commission through its sections in the DPR and the LPR, 99.23% (2,116,800 voters) supported the annexation in Donetsk and 98.42% (1,636,302 voters) in Luhansk. The turnouts were 97.51% (2,131,207 voters) and 94.15% (1,662,607 voters), respectively.[45][46][47]

[snip]

According to the figures released by the Kherson regional section of the Russian Central Election Commission, 87.05% (497,051) supported the annexation to the Russian Federation, with 12.05% (68,832) against and 0.9% of ballots invalid, on a turnout of 76.86%.[62][45] They claim 571,001 voters took part.[46]

[snip]

On 27 September, Russian officials of the Central Election Commission in Zaporizhzhia claimed that the referendum passed, with 93.11% (of 541,093 voters) favoured joining the Russian Federation.[72][46] The turnout was 85.4%.[73] According to the data provided by the commission, the support for the annexation was 90.01% in the Melitopol Raion, while in its administrative center, Melitopol, it was 96.78%.[74]
**

Source:

2022 annexation referendums in Russian-occupied Ukraine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In late September 2022, Russian-installed officials in Ukraine staged referendums on the annexation of occupied territories of Ukraine by Russia.[1][2][3][4] They were widely described as sham referendums by commentators and denounced by various countries. The validity of the results of the "referendums" have not been accepted by any sovereign state.

 

[Fledermaus]

Why is it illegitimate? As to the strong votes to join Russia in DPR and LPR, I think it stands to reason, considering that they've been attacked by their own alleged country for the past 8 years. Nothing like fearing for your life for 8 years to encourage you to join a country that is trying to get the bombings to stop.

Asked, answered and ignored.

 

[Geoist]

@phoenyx consider the company you are keeping here: slick, AmNat, EMNSeattle, etc. All rightwing authoritarians. All pro-Putin/invasion.

 

[Fledermaus]

No. slick explains why:

The same Oblasts that voted 85%+ to separate from the USSR/RF in 1991.....

Hmmmmmm

 

[Rogue Valley]

Do you have evidence of this?

Give us some stories by renowned international journalist Richard Engel reporting from Russia-occupied Donbas.

I'm much more interested in what the moral/ethical thing to do is, and I think that Russia's decision to hold referendums in the Ukraine areas it controls was a good one.

Of course you do. You've been shilling for Moscow ever since Putin's February invasion of Ukraine.

She has written some articles for RT, and I imagine she got paid to do so.

Indeed.....

Since April 2022, Bartlett has been in Ukraine, reporting on the Russian invasion of Ukraine from a pro-Russian perspective, frequently featuring collaborations with Russian state-owned channel Russia Today.[31] Bartlett has been frequently criticised for spreading Kremlin propaganda, and misinformation.[10] Bartlett regularly collaborates with RT propagandist Roman Kosarev, in her Donbas reports.[12]

Wikipedia - Eva Bartlett

Source:

Eva Bartlett | MintPress News

www.mintpressnews.com

Someone's basement blog.

 

[lwf]

Reminds me of the “If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?". Everyone was free back in 2014 to head to Crimea to observe the elections, just as they have been free to go to the Oblasts a few days ago. Many went, not from the chic west. If the west chosed not to observe the elections then I am not sure how it has any grounds for claiming lack of transparency.

Except the Russians didnt simply declare. Anyways, I am not so much arguing that elections cannot be illegitimate; I am challenging the declaration that an election is illegitimate by a party that deliberately chosed not to observe the elections.

The elections were observed, and journalists report that voting was conducted by armed Russian soldiers going door to door, and the process of counting votes was not observable. For these reasons, these elections were illegitimate.

 

[Juin]

The elections were observed,<<

Then what is your complaint?

and journalists report that voting was conducted by armed Russian soldiers going door to door, and the process of counting votes was not observable. <<

There were also coverages of massive crowds at public places gathered to vote. Festive crowds, as a matter of fact, waving flags. And keep in mind that a lot of those liberated areas have only Russian soldiers as law and order.

For these reasons, these elections were illegitimate.

The west was bound to find them illegitimate even if all your concerns were addressed

 

[W_Heisenberg]

Do you have a shred of evidence to support either assertion?

She is not doing this as some sort of volunteer effort. RT, for example, is a Russian government media channel, and she is frequent contributor to that channel, supplying both opinion pieces and video footage. Like any media channel, RT pays its contributors. Therefore, she has been paid by the Russian government.

I don't have access to her paycheck stubs or to any of the invoices she submitted to RT, and I don't know why you think I would.

More broadly, the Russian government has a sophisticated propaganda system and pays its shills through a variety of indirect methods as well (through NGOs/think tanks, and oligarch networks).

 

[lwf]

Do you know a single journalist that's actually in the election areas that are saying it's a sham referendum?

The fact that it is being conducted by an occupying military force automatically makes it a sham by default.

 

[Antiwar]

People like you give progressives a bad name. You just confirm the conservative stereotype that progressives only blame America and make excuses for other countries so long as they are anti-West.

Can you specify your progressive position on the Russo-Ukrainian war?

 

[reinaert]

Q

From an article on it in RT:

**
In Lugansk, over 98% of voters supported joining Russia, official figures show. Donetsk recorded similar results with more than 99% of voters supporting the proposal. Both Zaporozhye and Kherson regions had processed all ballots by late Tuesday, where respectively 93% and 87% of voters backed leaving Ukraine and unifying with Russia.
**

Source:

Four regions vote to join Russia: What’s next?

The legal procedure for admitting the Donbass republics and Kherson and Zaporozhye Regions to Russia requires several steps

www.rt.com

Fixed elections after "filtration" will have that effect.

 

[reinaert]

Can you specify your progressive position on the Russo-Ukrainian war?

Stop a genocidal invasion by a fascist antisemite jingoist.

 

[lwf]

Then what is your complaint?

There were also coverages of massive crowds at public places gathered to vote. Festive crowds, as a matter of fact, waving flags. And keep in mind that a lot of those liberated areas have only Russian soldiers as law and order.

The west was bound to find them illegitimate even if all your concerns were addressed

Trump rallies also draw big crowds in blue states. That doesn't mean that Trump is going to win them.

An occupying military force cannot hold a legitimate democratic election.

 

[Fledermaus]

Can you specify your progressive position on the Russo-Ukrainian war?

Russia progressively retreats from Ukraine.

 

[Geoist]

Can you specify your progressive position on the Russo-Ukrainian war?

You know my position. It is the progressive one.

 

[phoenyx]

Obviously the great majority of people in the Donbass support Russia. But no one cares what they think; for liberals, a legitimate election just is one they win. What the voters actually think has nothing to do with it.

Some care. Eva Bartlett, for one.

 

[Antiwar]

You know my position. It is the progressive one.

Can you explain your position and how it's progressive?

 

[Geoist]

Can you explain your position and how it's progressive?

You know my position. Now explain to me how it's 'wrong.'

 

[phoenyx]

Do you know a single journalist that's actually in the election areas that are saying it's a sham referendum?

The fact that it is being conducted by an occupying military force automatically makes it a sham by default.

In the case of the DPR and the LPR, they specifically requested Russia's aid in dealing with a renewed Ukrainian assault that started on February 16th. In other words, Russia did not enter these Donbass republics as occupiers, but as its saviors. Small wonder that the referendums in these republics came out with such high support for joining Russia.

 

[lwf]

In the case of the DPR and the LPR, they specifically requested Russia's aid in dealing with a renewed Ukrainian assault that started on February 16th. In other words, Russia did not enter these Donbass republics as occupiers, but as its saviors. Small wonder that the referendums in these republics came out with such high support for joining Russia.

This isn't what happened. This is the Russian narrative of what happened. What really happened is Russia invaded a sovereign country for the purpose of territorial expansion, and when they realized that they were not strong enough to take the country by force, they tried to stage a fake election in a desperate bid to lend legitimacy to their military occupation. But all it did was preclude any further diplomacy and doom more Russian citizens to die and be left on the battlefield in a foreign war that they never asked for.

 

[Antiwar]

You know my position. Now explain to me how it's 'wrong.'

If I knew your position, I would critique it.

 

[Geoist]

In other words, Russia did not enter these Donbass republics as occupiers, but as its saviors.

Russia entered way further than the Donbas, so your theory of a 'Russian savior' completely falls on its face.

 

[Geoist]

If I knew your position, I would critique it.

How many times have you asked me this question? This has to be the third or fourth. At this point I wonder if you are trolling.