Journalist Eva Bartlett interviews DPR Civilians on referendum to join Russia

[Fledermaus]

.
Juin said:
Tell me something new. Was the elections in Crimea in 2014 at gunpoint? It was also declared illegitimate by the "golden billion".

Is it possible for any elections conducted by Russians to be transparent and illegitimate? The reason I mention this is that we are reaching a certain surreal situation where if a Russian says the world is round the west will denounce that assertion as false.

The "golden billion"* has crafted a profile of Russians in Ukraine out of fantasy. In the delicate hands of the "golden billion" ethnic Russians in Ukraine hate Putin, hate Russia, prefer being minorities under ethnic Ukrainians than part of majority ethnic Russian Russia, believe the eradication of Russian culture and literature by the newly minted ethnic Ukrainian State is salvation for them....

* golden billion is the Russian Dictator's jab at the billion population of the EU and America who have arrogated to themselves the arbiters of global matters. Maybe the Dictator is wrong, but that is how he referred to his nemesis in the west

Was or was not Crimea occupied by Russians at the time of the bogus "referendum"?

 

[Fledermaus]

Turkey also held some preliminary meeting early in the war.
Which is much more then the warmongering USA ever did .

We didn't participate in Syrian peace talks either -those were led by Russia

So what?

Relevance to the warmongering Russians who went beyond warmongering straight to war?

 

[Fledermaus]

newsflash!
doesn't mean I can't criticize the needless escalation .utter lack of facilitating peace (Turkey did much more) avenues
and of course all the stupid sanctions+militarization of Ukraine into a defcto NATO state that got us here

Santions and militarizing were BECAUSE OF RUSSIA'S AGGRESSION AGAINST UKRAINE.

 

[Hamish Howl]

newsflash!
doesn't mean I can't criticize the needless escalation .utter lack of facilitating peace (Turkey did much more) avenues
and of course all the stupid sanctions+militarization of Ukraine into a defcto NATO state that got us here

I gotta wonder who it is you think you're fooling.

 

[Fledermaus]

Not sure what you are referring to as the 'same thing'.

Who are you talking to?

 

[phoenyx]

Who are you talking to?

I was talking to you.

 

[Fledermaus]

I was talking to you.

What 'same thing' are you babbling about then?

 

[phoenyx]

What if southern California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas put forth a referendum asking the citizens if they would rather be Mexican or American?

Would we be willing to give up all that land if the referendum did not go America's way? Maybe give back 1/2 of California and 1/2 of Texas to Mexico?

I doubt the U.S. would allow it. From what I've seen, national governments tend to strongly resist losing land. That doesn't mean they can't. There just has to be significant amount of force to make it happen. A good example is the former Republic of Texas. It used to be Mexican territory. Then Texas decided they wanted to become independent and some were willing to fight to the death to make it so. That alone wasn't enough, but after they held a referendum to join the U.S., things changed. The next time Mexico attacked them, the U.S. walloped them and took a good chunk of their land in return. History doesn't repeat itself, but it rhymes.

 

[phoenyx]

Well worth a look at for those who think that Russia forced people to vote in this referendum...



Eva's summary of the video:

**
Western commentators would do well to listen to them (but we know they won't). Summary:
-they waited 8 years for this
-they are tired of being bombed by Ukraine, they want peace & feel joining Russia will bring this
-they were not intimidated or forced to vote, many (like Syrians) faced potential shelling in order to do so, many volunteered in order to ensure the referendum went ahead
-they've long since given up caring what western commentators & "news" say about them (the same who whitewashed Ukraine's 8+ years of war crimes against the civilians of the Donbass).

For my commentary, see this recent interview:


**

Yeah but the vast majority of journalists by far are saying it's a sham referendum

Do you know a single journalist that's actually in the election areas that are saying it's a sham referendum?

 

[phoenyx]

Eva Barlett is being paid by the Russian government to say that.

Patrick Lancaster is being paid by the Russian government to say that.

Do you have a shred of evidence to support either assertion?

 

[Fledermaus]

Do you know a single journalist that's actually in the election areas that are saying it's a sham referendum?

It is a sham referendum because of international law.

Do you have a shred of evidence to support either assertion?

Do they work for RT.com?

 

[phoenyx]

Please tell us, what were the referendum results in each region?

From an article on it in RT:

**
In Lugansk, over 98% of voters supported joining Russia, official figures show. Donetsk recorded similar results with more than 99% of voters supporting the proposal. Both Zaporozhye and Kherson regions had processed all ballots by late Tuesday, where respectively 93% and 87% of voters backed leaving Ukraine and unifying with Russia.
**

Source:

Four regions vote to join Russia: What’s next?

The legal procedure for admitting the Donbass republics and Kherson and Zaporozhye Regions to Russia requires several steps

www.rt.com

 

[Fledermaus]

From an article on it in RT:

**
In Lugansk, over 98% of voters supported joining Russia, official figures show. Donetsk recorded similar results with more than 99% of voters supporting the proposal. Both Zaporozhye and Kherson regions had processed all ballots by late Tuesday, where respectively 93% and 87% of voters backed leaving Ukraine and unifying with Russia.
**

Source:

Four regions vote to join Russia: What’s next?

The legal procedure for admitting the Donbass republics and Kherson and Zaporozhye Regions to Russia requires several steps

www.rt.com

Do yo have a non-Russian government site?

 

[phoenyx]

Do yo have a non-Russian government site?

Sure, though the source is the same, the Russian government, as they ran the referendum:

**
According to the results released by the Russian Central Election Commission through its sections in the DPR and the LPR, 99.23% (2,116,800 voters) supported the annexation in Donetsk and 98.42% (1,636,302 voters) in Luhansk. The turnouts were 97.51% (2,131,207 voters) and 94.15% (1,662,607 voters), respectively.[45][46][47]

[snip]

According to the figures released by the Kherson regional section of the Russian Central Election Commission, 87.05% (497,051) supported the annexation to the Russian Federation, with 12.05% (68,832) against and 0.9% of ballots invalid, on a turnout of 76.86%.[62][45] They claim 571,001 voters took part.[46]

[snip]

On 27 September, Russian officials of the Central Election Commission in Zaporizhzhia claimed that the referendum passed, with 93.11% (of 541,093 voters) favoured joining the Russian Federation.[72][46] The turnout was 85.4%.[73] According to the data provided by the commission, the support for the annexation was 90.01% in the Melitopol Raion, while in its administrative center, Melitopol, it was 96.78%.[74]
**

Source:

2022 annexation referendums in Russian-occupied Ukraine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Geoist]

From an article on it in RT:

**
In Lugansk, over 98% of voters supported joining Russia, official figures show. Donetsk recorded similar results with more than 99% of voters supporting the proposal. Both Zaporozhye and Kherson regions had processed all ballots by late Tuesday, where respectively 93% and 87% of voters backed leaving Ukraine and unifying with Russia.
**

Source:

Four regions vote to join Russia: What’s next?

The legal procedure for admitting the Donbass republics and Kherson and Zaporozhye Regions to Russia requires several steps

www.rt.com

And those results don't ring any alarm bells for you?

 

[phoenyx]

From an article on it in RT:

**
In Lugansk, over 98% of voters supported joining Russia, official figures show. Donetsk recorded similar results with more than 99% of voters supporting the proposal. Both Zaporozhye and Kherson regions had processed all ballots by late Tuesday, where respectively 93% and 87% of voters backed leaving Ukraine and unifying with Russia.
**

Source:

Four regions vote to join Russia: What’s next?

The legal procedure for admitting the Donbass republics and Kherson and Zaporozhye Regions to Russia requires several steps

www.rt.com

And those results don't ring any alarm bells for you?

No. slick explains why:

These numbers were expected in these oblasts. Don't forget that in the last legitimate Ukranian election when Ukraine was still
whole 2010. The four oblasts now counting votes were almost unanimously supporting the Russian leaning candidate in 2010:
Donetsk: Yanukovich 90.44
Luhansk: Yanukovich 88.96
Kherson: Yanukovich 59.86
Zaporiz....: Yanukovich 71,55

 

[Rogue Valley]

Do you know a single journalist that's actually in the election areas that are saying it's a sham referendum?

Russia controls ALL media in the occupied areas.

Additionally, it is illegal for an occupying power to hold elections/referendums in the foreign territory they control.

Ergo... a sham operation.

And you know Eva Barrett works for RT.

 

[Geoist]

No. slick explains why:

How many pro-Ukrainian citizens do you think stick more than half a year into a Russian invasion? They either fled, dead, or too afraid to even vote. You cannot possibly claim this is a legitimate vote.

 

[phoenyx]

Do you know a single journalist that's actually in the election areas that are saying it's a sham referendum?

Russia controls ALL media in the occupied areas.

Do you have evidence of this? In any case, even if true, there are some journalists who I trust implicitly, like Canadian journalist Eva Bartlett and American journalist Patrick Lancaster. I believe that if they didn't believe that the elections were conducted fairly and they weren't allowed to say so, they wouldn't be saying anything at all.

Additionally, it is illegal for an occupying power to hold elections/referendums in the foreign territory they control.

Tell that to the U.S. as it held elections in Afghanistan and Iraq. I think journalist and sci fi author Frank Herbert's line on the law is apt:

"Law always chooses sides on the basis of enforcement power. Morality and legal niceties have little to do with it when the real question is: Who has the clout?"

I'm much more interested in what the moral/ethical thing to do is, and I think that Russia's decision to hold referendums in the Ukraine areas it controls was a good one.

And you know Eva Barrett works for RT.

She has written some articles for RT, and I imagine she got paid to do so. We all need to eat. The important thing is not whether or not Eva Bartlett received remuneration for her work, but whether she's honest. I came to believe she's honest long before Russia's military operation. Mint Press has a good short bio of her:

**
Eva Bartlett is a Canadian independent journalist and activist. She has spent years on the ground covering conflict zones in the Middle East, especially in Syria and occupied Palestine, where she lived for nearly four years. She is a recipient of the 2017 International Journalism Award for International Reporting, granted by the Mexican Journalists’ Press Club (founded in 1951), was the first recipient of the Serena Shim Award for Uncompromised Integrity in Journalism, and was short-listed in 2017 for the Martha Gellhorn Prize for Journalism.
**

Source:

Eva Bartlett | MintPress News

www.mintpressnews.com

 

[Geoist]

Eva Bartlett is a Canadian independent journalist and activist. She has spent years on the ground covering conflict zones in the Middle East, especially in Syria and occupied Palestine, where she lived for nearly four years. She is a recipient of the 2017 International Journalism Award for International Reporting, granted by the Mexican Journalists’ Press Club (founded in 1951), was the first recipient of the Serena Shim Award for Uncompromised Integrity in Journalism, and was short-listed in 2017 for the Martha Gellhorn Prize for Journalism.
**

Source:

Eva Bartlett | MintPress News

www.mintpressnews.com

Isn't it great how we can access all of the pro-Russian propaganda here in America/Canada? Do you think they have this kind of access to ant-Kremlin/Western media in Russia?

 

[phoenyx]

No. slick explains why:

How many pro-Ukrainian citizens do you think stick more than half a year into a Russian invasion? They either fled, dead, or too afraid to even vote.

Did you even read the quote from slick? All the regions that held referendum votes were solidly pro Russian long before the Donbass war even started.

 

[Geoist]

Did you even read the quote from slick? All the regions that held referendum votes were solidly pro Russian long before the Donbass war even started.

I never said those regions weren't pro-Russian. I've known for years it is pro-Russian. But 97% is going to raise eyebrows and even if there was no blatant 'stuffing ballots' it is still illegitimate considering the circumstances.

 

[phoenyx]

She has written some articles for RT, and I imagine she got paid to do so. We all need to eat. The important thing is not whether or not Eva Bartlett received remuneration for her work, but whether she's honest. I came to believe she's honest long before Russia's military operation. Mint Press has a good short bio of her:

**
Eva Bartlett is a Canadian independent journalist and activist. She has spent years on the ground covering conflict zones in the Middle East, especially in Syria and occupied Palestine, where she lived for nearly four years. She is a recipient of the 2017 International Journalism Award for International Reporting, granted by the Mexican Journalists’ Press Club (founded in 1951), was the first recipient of the Serena Shim Award for Uncompromised Integrity in Journalism, and was short-listed in 2017 for the Martha Gellhorn Prize for Journalism.
**

Source:

Eva Bartlett | MintPress News

www.mintpressnews.com

Isn't it great how we can access all of the pro-Russian propaganda here in America/Canada?

You haven't shown any evidence that Mint Press News is "pro-Russian propaganda".

Do you think they have this kind of access to ant-Kremlin/Western media in Russia?

I'm not sure.

 

[phoenyx]

I never said those regions weren't pro-Russian. I've known for years it is pro-Russian. But 97% is going to raise eyebrows and even if there was no blatant 'stuffing ballots' it is still illegitimate considering the circumstances.

Why is it illegitimate? As to the strong votes to join Russia in DPR and LPR, I think it stands to reason, considering that they've been attacked by their own alleged country for the past 8 years. Nothing like fearing for your life for 8 years to encourage you to join a country that is trying to get the bombings to stop.

 

[Geoist]

You haven't shown any evidence that Mint Press News is "pro-Russian propaganda".

I never said anything about Mint Press News as I am unfamiliar with them. From what I've read about Eva Bartlett, though, she definitely pushes the Kremlin's narrative:

Pro-Assad? Check
Pro-invasion of Ukraine? Check
North Korean regime apologist? Check
Collaborates with Russian media? Check

I'm not sure.

Lol, of course, feign ignorance.

People like you give progressives a bad name. You just confirm the conservative stereotype that progressives only blame America and make excuses for other countries so long as they are anti-West.