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John Stossel called for repeal of public accommodations section of Civil Rights Act

Do you agree with John Stossel?


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MaggieD

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Re: John Stossel called for repeal of public accommodations section of Civil Rights A

Disagree. Good Lord. What is he thinking? I can't believe it. *Shakin' head here*

Fortunately, it'll never happen.
 

DrunkenAsparagus

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Re: John Stossel called for repeal of public accommodations section of Civil Rights A

Well it's a right of association thing. Store owners can throw out people for all kinds of stupid things without legal recourse.

Maybe it was necessary in the 1960s, but today I can't imagine a more than a few openly discriminating stores staying in business for long or being forced to recant due to public outrage.
 

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Re: John Stossel called for repeal of public accommodations section of Civil Rights A

I happen to agree. I feel as a business owner I should be able to refuse service to anyone and for any reason I choose. Sure there will be racist pigs out there that refuse to serve based on race but I believe the market place will quickly weed these out.
 

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Re: John Stossel called for repeal of public accommodations section of Civil Rights A

I happen to agree. I feel as a business owner I should be able to refuse service to anyone and for any reason I choose. Sure there will be racist pigs out there that refuse to serve based on race but I believe the market place will quickly weed these out.
That's kind of akin to saying, "We've all learned our lesson." We haven't. We've got a long way to go.
 

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Re: John Stossel called for repeal of public accommodations section of Civil Rights A

Disagree. Good Lord. What is he thinking? I can't believe it. *Shakin' head here*

Fortunately, it'll never happen.
Just out of curiosity, what do you think would happen if that section were repealed?
 

Harry Guerrilla

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Re: John Stossel called for repeal of public accommodations section of Civil Rights A

Just out of curiosity, what do you think would happen if that section were repealed?
I'd like to think the best of people. But in the case of discrimination against Blacks orrrr the ethnic/racial group du jour, I have absolutely no faith in the American people to just simply do the right thing.
 

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Re: John Stossel called for repeal of public accommodations section of Civil Rights A

Strongly disagree. When my great grandmother raised my grandfather, they had an extremely difficult life. She was a single-mother Jewish woman who was denied one job after another after another. Real estate agents refused to show them houses in certain neighborhoods, it was common knowledge that Jews couldn't eat at certain restaurants, and they were once denied a room at a hotel for being Jewish when their house was mysteriously set on fire.

Did the business owners who refuse her a job suffer from protests or fewer customers? No. Did the real estate agents or restaurant managers or hotel owner sufferr any consequences of their policies? No. She finally got a government job transcribing courtroom statements. Allowing businesses to discriminate based on gender, race, religion, or sexual preference is wrong. A lot of libertarians agree with Stossel, and they are wrong.
 

MaggieD

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Re: John Stossel called for repeal of public accommodations section of Civil Rights A

I have all the right in the world to be an asshole, even if I own a business.
Oh, you can still be an asshole, Harry. You just can't discriminate against protected classes. ;-)
 

pbrauer

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Re: John Stossel called for repeal of public accommodations section of Civil Rights A

I have all the right in the world to be an asshole, even if I own a business.
This is true, but the government protects your ass, so they have the right to forbid you from discriminating.
 

MaggieD

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Re: John Stossel called for repeal of public accommodations section of Civil Rights A

Strongly disagree. When my great grandmother raised my grandfather, they had an extremely difficult life. She was a single-mother Jewish woman who was denied one job after another after another. Real estate agents refused to show them houses in certain neighborhoods, it was common knowledge that Jews couldn't eat at certain restaurants, and they were once denied a room at a hotel for being Jewish when their house was mysteriously set on fire.

Did the business owners who refuse her a job suffer from protests or fewer customers? No. Did the real estate agents or restaurant managers or hotel owner sufferr any consequences of their policies? No. She finally got a government job transcribing courtroom statements. Allowing businesses to discriminate based on gender, race, religion, or sexual preference is wrong. A lot of libertarians agree with Stossel, and they are wrong.
I agree with you completely. And racism, as much as we'd like to believe it's a thing of the past, is not. Evidenced by a homeowner in Chicago, their real estate agent, and the real estate company being used by HUD for refusing to sell their $1.3 million home to a black family. Latest from Breaking Business
 

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Re: John Stossel called for repeal of public accommodations section of Civil Rights A

That's kind of akin to saying, "We've all learned our lesson." We haven't. We've got a long way to go.
Of course there are still racists out there, but it isn't really acceptable to do it out in public. It's simply bad business.
 

RightinNYC

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Re: John Stossel called for repeal of public accommodations section of Civil Rights A

I'd like to think the best of people. But in the case of discrimination against Blacks orrrr the ethnic/racial group du jour, I have absolutely no faith in the American people to just simply do the right thing.
But how do you think that would play out in day-to-day life?
 

RightinNYC

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Re: John Stossel called for repeal of public accommodations section of Civil Rights A

I agree with you completely. And racism, as much as we'd like to believe it's a thing of the past, is not. Evidenced by a homeowner in Chicago, their real estate agent, and the real estate company being used by HUD for refusing to sell their $1.3 million home to a black family. Latest from Breaking Business
The mere allegation that this family preferred not to sell to a black family has become national news - Doesn't that tell you something?
 

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Re: John Stossel called for repeal of public accommodations section of Civil Rights A

I don't think it should be repealed. After all, you're gonna get stupid scenarios like a black guy who's dying of thirst and the only store that has any bottled water is owned by a neo-nazi, stupid stuff like that. People shouldn't have to be turned away from a store unless they are causing a disturbance.
 

MaggieD

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Re: John Stossel called for repeal of public accommodations section of Civil Rights A

Harry said: -- Betcha money I can and get away with it but I'm not that kind of person.
Knew that!! Ha!

The mere allegation that this family preferred not to sell to a black family has become national news - Doesn't that tell you something?
Doesn't tell me as much as maybe it tells you, Right. I'm a Realtor in suburban Chicago. I have been involved in a number of instances where my client told me right up front, "I'm not selling to Blacks." That's when ya' push your chair back from the table, and say, "Find somebody else to list your house. I'm not going to jail." (Realtors who even ACKNOWLEDGE a statement like that are in soooo much trouble.) Also had two sellers who refused to sign contracts when they found out the buyers were Black. In both instances, my broker and I pointed to the error of their ways clearly enough so that they SIGNED. But they never would have signed without a serious Come ta' Jesus meeting. On the buy end, when I've represented Blacks, I've had Sellers say things to me when I've shown their home that clearly indicate prejudice is alive and kickin' -- even in Chicago. Imagine the south.

Remember Denny's a few years back? Some restaurant in the south refused to seat blacks? It'd spring up so fast it'd make people's heads swim.
 

Harry Guerrilla

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Re: John Stossel called for repeal of public accommodations section of Civil Rights A

Doesn't tell me as much as maybe it tells you, Right. I'm a Realtor in suburban Chicago. I have been involved in a number of instances where my client told me right up front, "I'm not selling to Blacks." That's when ya' push your chair back from the table, and say, "Find somebody else to list your house. I'm not going to jail." (Realtors who even ACKNOWLEDGE a statement like that are in soooo much trouble.) Also had two sellers who refused to sign contracts when they found out the buyers were Black. In both instances, my broker and I pointed to the error of their ways clearly enough so that they SIGNED. But they never would have signed without a serious Come ta' Jesus meeting. On the buy end, when I've represented Blacks, I've had Sellers say things to me when I've shown their home that clearly indicate prejudice is alive and kickin' -- even in Chicago. Imagine the south.

Remember Denny's a few years back? Some restaurant in the south refused to seat blacks? It'd spring up so fast it'd make people's heads swim.
Think about what you're saying though.

Did it require the government to make a law for you to think that? or did you do it on your own?
 

RightinNYC

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Re: John Stossel called for repeal of public accommodations section of Civil Rights A

Knew that!! Ha!



Doesn't tell me as much as maybe it tells you, Right. I'm a Realtor in suburban Chicago. I have been involved in a number of instances where my client told me right up front, "I'm not selling to Blacks." That's when ya' push your chair back from the table, and say, "Find somebody else to list your house. I'm not going to jail." (Realtors who even ACKNOWLEDGE a statement like that are in soooo much trouble.) Also had two sellers who refused to sign contracts when they found out the buyers were Black. In both instances, my broker and I pointed to the error of their ways clearly enough so that they SIGNED. But they never would have signed without a serious Come ta' Jesus meeting. On the buy end, when I've represented Blacks, I've had Sellers say things to me when I've shown their home that clearly indicate prejudice is alive and kickin' -- even in Chicago. Imagine the south.

Remember Denny's a few years back? Some restaurant in the south refused to seat blacks? It'd spring up so fast it'd make people's heads swim.
When the person said they didn't want to sell to blacks, why did you refuse to represent them - was it because you didn't want to go to jail or because you oppose racism?
When you advised those people to follow through with the sales, did you do that because you were required to by law or because you thought it was the right thing to do?
 
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Re: John Stossel called for repeal of public accommodations section of Civil Rights A

I'd like to think the best of people. But in the case of discrimination against Blacks orrrr the ethnic/racial group du jour, I have absolutely no faith in the American people to just simply do the right thing.
I think white businesses would stay the same.
 

Jucon

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Re: John Stossel called for repeal of public accommodations section of Civil Rights A

Someone please give a situation that this act currently forbids where a non-racist could refuse service to someone.
 

MaggieD

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Re: John Stossel called for repeal of public accommodations section of Civil Rights A

When the person said they didn't want to sell to blacks, why did you refuse to represent them - was it because you didn't want to go to jail or because you oppose racism?
When you advised those people to follow through with the sales, did you do that because you were required to by law or because you thought it was the right thing to do?
To HarryG, too...

My personal feelings didn't enter into it. The way to get in a client's face when they come out with something like that is to make a really big impression. Saying what I said did that. I'm not trying to make a moral statement. I'm in business to make money. I wanted -- and got -- the client's listing with the clear understanding that there would be absolutey no racial discimination in the sale of his home. The second incident? I did it because I didn't want to get sued by HUD. That's the only power I had over the client, after all. Telling him, "Awwww, that's just not right," would get me thrown out of his house.

Without Civil Rights laws, certainly in the area of real estate, our country would quickly revert to a segregated mess.

Now, if my personal feelings are of interest to you, I do not consider myself prejudiced.
 

MaggieD

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Re: John Stossel called for repeal of public accommodations section of Civil Rights A

Someone please give a situation that this act currently forbids where a non-racist could refuse service to someone.
If I understand your question, you're asking, "What other reason could a business refuse service to someone other than racism?" If that's your question, I would say that a restaurant could refuse service to anyone who was stereotyped as being a bad tipper, for example. Guess who fits that stereotype.
 

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Re: John Stossel called for repeal of public accommodations section of Civil Rights A

To HarryG, too...

My personal feelings didn't enter into it. The way to get in a client's face when they come out with something like that is to make a really big impression. Saying what I said did that. I'm not trying to make a moral statement. I'm in business to make money. I wanted -- and got -- the client's listing with the clear understanding that there would be absolutey no racial discimination in the sale of his home. The second incident? I did it because I didn't want to get sued by HUD. That's the only power I had over the client, after all. Telling him, "Awwww, that's just not right," would get me thrown out of his house.

Without Civil Rights laws, certainly in the area of real estate, our country would quickly revert to a segregated mess.

Now, if my personal feelings are of interest to you, I do not consider myself prejudiced.
It pretty much already is, most of it is de facto segregation though.
 
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