Joe Wilson: A Perfect Example of Left AND Right Wing Hyper Partisanship

[Bassman]

The only problem I would have with censure is that the Democrats refused to censure one of their own back when Bush was President for the incredible disrespect he showed the President on the floor of Congress. After doing that, censure would've been a very hypocritical act on their part. But that doesn't mean Wilson wouldn't have deserved it.

Not to mention it would pump a whole mintful of money into wilson's in particular, but also the GOPs war chests.

 

[Rightarrow]

Obviously, this is a topic that has everyone's blood boiling on both sides of the aisle.

Democrats - Doesn't the argument that "the Republicans did it to us" fall short of the expectations set by our President calling for the bickering to end? Wouldn't your cause be more served by showing that you are above the petty arguments of the past, and are willing to accept Wilson's apology, sufficient or no?

Republicans - The truth of the matter is that Rep. Wilson should have apologized to the House of his own will. I expected more of him. We know he is not a racist. I don't know him personally, but his success and that of his four sons in the military (probably the most difficult institution to retain racist ideas that exists in this country if you want to succeed) is enough evidence for me. Though I think that Rep. Wilson should be applauded for his many achievements, I think that to retain some dignity, we as Republicans, should not applaud this one.

We need to move past our differences and try to make the country better the best we can. We need to stop trying to become like other countries, and return to making other countries want to become like us. This means approaching matters of large change with caution, but resolve.

 

[j-mac]

Obviously, this is a topic that has everyone's blood boiling on both sides of the aisle.

Actually I see it as a distraction fomented by the demo's in order to detract the countries attention from ACORN being outright busted on tape.

Democrats - Doesn't the argument that "the Republicans did it to us" fall short of the expectations set by our President calling for the bickering to end?

Obama doesn't want any bickering to end. He furthers it. What Obama wants is for the opposition to fall in line and blindly go along with what ever he proposes.

Wouldn't your cause be more served by showing that you are above the petty arguments of the past, and are willing to accept Wilson's apology, sufficient or no?

Obama is all about pettiness. When Wilson called the WH immediately after the speech, Obama would not take his call, he had his little thug Emmanuel accept the apology.

Republicans - The truth of the matter is that Rep. Wilson should have apologized to the House of his own will.

No, I don't think so. When those members in the house, the demo's that were among the most classless individuals for the past 8 years apologize for dividing the country then maybe Wilson could think about it.

We know he is not a racist.

Racist as a term has been rendered meaningless thanks to demo's pulling it out every time someone disagrees with what Obama wants to do.

Though I think that Rep. Wilson should be applauded for his many achievements, I think that to retain some dignity, we as Republicans, should not applaud this one.

Why not? I think that a party unifying around what they believe is a good thing. Surely you are not arguing that we need to go along to get along are you?

We need to move past our differences and try to make the country better the best we can. We need to stop trying to become like other countries, and return to making other countries want to become like us. This means approaching matters of large change with caution, but resolve.

Again, nothing is for the better in this country if the reps lay down and just become demo lite in order to not have what some mushy members of the party are embarrassed by. We need bold leadership, not a party of McCain's!


j-mac

 

[Rightarrow]

Actually I see it as a distraction fomented by the demo's in order to detract the countries attention from ACORN being outright busted on tape.

Of course it is a distraction. However, ACORN has had it's previous ties cut to the Census Bureau and to many many others.

Obama doesn't want any bickering to end. He furthers it. What Obama wants is for the opposition to fall in line and blindly go along with what ever he proposes.

I disagree. I agree that he has not sufficiently looked to our side of the aisle, and I think that it has hurt him, and continue to hurt him. I don't think that this kind of bickering is what he wants though, because he knows it makes him look bad.

Obama is all about pettiness. When Wilson called the WH immediately after the speech, Obama would not take his call, he had his little thug Emmanuel accept the apology.

I concede to your point here. The President did, however, formally accept the apology. I also think the President played a horrible hand with the cop a couple months ago.

No, I don't think so. When those members in the house, the demo's that were among the most classless individuals for the past 8 years apologize for dividing the country then maybe Wilson could think about it.

You see, these are the kind of arguments that get us nowhere. The only reason why it's not a detriment to us is that the Dems continue to do the same. Why can't we Republicans be the first to show some class and surprise the American people with how we can be above the pettiness.

Racist as a term has been rendered meaningless thanks to demo's pulling it out every time someone disagrees with what Obama wants to do.

I started a whole thread on this, my position is very well stated there.

Why not? I think that a party unifying around what they believe is a good thing. Surely you are not arguing that we need to go along to get along are you?

A unified party is worthless if we can't get the independent votes in 2010. If we can't gain back the House and the Senate, then the Dems still won't have to look to our side of the aisle. Is that what you want?

Again, nothing is for the better in this country if the reps lay down and just become demo lite in order to not have what some mushy members of the party are embarrassed by. We need bold leadership, not a party of McCain's!

I heartily agree with you here. I am not against the opposition at the Townhall meetings or the estimated 1.8 million that showed up at Washington. I am all for it, and wished I could have been a part of it. However, on these little issues that don't matter much, I don't call Rep. Wilson apologizing to the institution that he disgraced laying down, I call it showing some backbone.

 

[j-mac]

Of course it is a distraction. However, ACORN has had it's previous ties cut to the Census Bureau and to many many others.

Not until after their own Illensky tactics were used against them. And what is ACORN's response? Sue the kids that exposed them, with the backing of a demo in the house.....Reminds me somewhat of sicking the KGB on them.

I disagree.

Not good enough, you can disagree all you want, but in order to actually prevail with your viewpoint you must break the argument.

I agree that he has not sufficiently looked to our side of the aisle, and I think that it has hurt him, and continue to hurt him. I don't think that this kind of bickering is what he wants though, because he knows it makes him look bad.

Is that so? So when the POTUS stands before a joint session of congress and exclaims this

Some of people's concerns have grown out of bogus claims spread by those whose only agenda is to kill reform at any cost. The best example is the claim made not just by radio and cable talk show hosts, but by prominent politicians, that we plan to set up panels of bureaucrats with the power to kill off senior citizens. Now, such a charge would be laughable if it weren't so cynical and irresponsible. It is a lie, plain and simple.

The White House - Press Office - Remarks by the President to a Joint Session of Congress on Health Care

Calling those in disagreement with his horrible take over of 1/6 of this nations economy, liars. Then that's ok with you eh?

I concede to your point here. The President did, however, formally accept the apology. I also think the President played a horrible hand with the cop a couple months ago.

he has played this race card since the campaign, and it is a weak hand offered by a weak person.

You see, these are the kind of arguments that get us nowhere. The only reason why it's not a detriment to us is that the Dems continue to do the same. Why can't we Republicans be the first to show some class and surprise the American people with how we can be above the pettiness.

Repubs are the first to throw their members to the door when wrong doing is exposed. We are constantly hearing how we must be the high road. What do demo's do? Ask Rangold. Ask Jefferson, or Dodd, or Frank! All of them should be in jail not congress.

I started a whole thread on this, my position is very well stated there.

Yes, and I am calling for a spine within the party.

A unified party is worthless if we can't get the independent votes in 2010. If we can't gain back the House and the Senate, then the Dems still won't have to look to our side of the aisle. Is that what you want?

Sacrificing principles for votes is not going to be a winning strategy either. Ask McCain.

I heartily agree with you here. I am not against the opposition at the Townhall meetings or the estimated 1.8 million that showed up at Washington. I am all for it, and wished I could have been a part of it. However, on these little issues that don't matter much, I don't call Rep. Wilson apologizing to the institution that he disgraced laying down, I call it showing some backbone.

Really? Because I call what Wilson has said, courage in the face of party members like you that would throw him to the wolves so as not to sacrifice your own hide.


j-mac

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Not until after their own Illensky tactics were used against them. And what is ACORN's response? Sue the kids that exposed them, with the backing of a demo in the house.....Reminds me somewhat of sicking the KGB on them.





Not good enough, you can disagree all you want, but in order to actually prevail with your viewpoint you must break the argument.





Is that so? So when the POTUS stands before a joint session of congress and exclaims this




Calling those in disagreement with his horrible take over of 1/6 of this nations economy, liars. Then that's ok with you eh?





he has played this race card since the campaign, and it is a weak hand offered by a weak person.





Repubs are the first to throw their members to the door when wrong doing is exposed. We are constantly hearing how we must be the high road. What do demo's do? Ask Rangold. Ask Jefferson, or Dodd, or Frank! All of them should be in jail not congress.





Yes, and I am calling for a spine within the party.





Sacrificing principles for votes is not going to be a winning strategy either. Ask McCain.





Really? Because I call what Wilson has said, courage in the face of party members like you that would throw him to the wolves so as not to sacrifice your own hide.


j-mac

This post is an excellent example of what the OP was trying to illustrate.

 

[Psychoclown]

I was going to say that about his previous post, but that one works too. The hacks just keep on coming.

 

[Rightarrow]

Not good enough, you can disagree all you want, but in order to actually prevail with your viewpoint you must break the argument.
Is that so? So when the POTUS stands before a joint session of congress and exclaims this
Calling those in disagreement with his horrible take over of 1/6 of this nations economy, liars. Then that's ok with you eh?

Ok, you do have a good point here. The President's speech, although delivered expertly, was a slap in the face to any one who opposed him. Although with words he expressed interest in hearing what we Republicans have to say, he showed by the rest of the content of his speech that he really didn't care what we think.
So do you think he should be a role model for how we Republicans do politics, or should we appeal to conservatives and moderates everywhere by showing just how petty the President can be in comparison to us? Rep. Wilson showed the truthfulness of the bickering better than anything else could have, and stole from us the opportunity to show the public just how wrong the President was.
Is the President a liar? He knows how to choose his words carefully enough to defend himself from that accusation. Did he deceive the American people? Absolutely.

Don't get me wrong. I think a lot of good has come from Rep. Wilson's outcry in the way of carefully reviewing the President's remarks. I hope that Wilson is re-elected. I still think he is a great man. And I assure you that if you asked him personally he would tell you he regrets breaking decorum. He is a military man, and he knows the value of order.

Repubs are the first to throw their members to the door when wrong doing is exposed. We are constantly hearing how we must be the high road. What do demo's do? Ask Rangold. Ask Jefferson, or Dodd, or Frank! All of them should be in jail not congress.

And the more we continue to strive for the high road, the better for us.

Sacrificing principles for votes is not going to be a winning strategy either. Ask McCain.

McCain had the support of at least if not more conservatives than Bush did in 2004. Moderates decide elections! If we cannot appeal to the moderates effectively in every election, we will fail again and again and again. I am not calling for sacrificing anything except for fringe talking (ie. birthers, cries of "Hitler", "the anti-christ", and "bury ObamaCare with Ted Kennedy"). These kinds of radical statements push moderate votes away from us and are all-out degrading to our cause anyway. We have soooo much great material to beat the Democrats with: The deficit, wasteful spending, the Democrats being unwilling to regulate Freddie Mae and Fanny Mac, Obama's ridiculous health care statements that we can cover more people, raise the amount of coverage, while lowering costs. These are the kinds of things that will not win liberals, but it will and it is winning moderates, all the polls show it.

Really? Because I call what Wilson has said, courage in the face of party members like you that would throw him to the wolves so as not to sacrifice your own hide.

When have I advocated throwing Rep. Wilson to the wolves? He is a great American that did a disgraceful thing. No one wants to be judged for the worst moment in their life. All I stated was he should have apologized to the House for his actions, of his own free will. I do not agree with forcing him to do it.[/QUOTE]

 

[The silenced majority]

I just watched Barack Obama on TV make yet another of his myriad of anti-hyper-partisan statements, then I thought of the policies he's enacted or tried to enact since becoming POTUS, his past history of radical philosophical statements and his radical past & present associations, then I thought of this thread and the many like it on DP, then I chuckled to myself a bit.

 

[Wessexman]

You keep saying noone would care, however the rules outline what would happen. If the member refused to retract the statement, the member risks being named (includes a suspension) and being required to withdraw from the chamber.

What would trigger this happening, if the member was so churlish as to refuse to retract the offending statement, would be a single member standing up and saying, for example, "I name Joe Wilson".

You're quite wrong that noone would care, and there would be consequences.


The consequences in the British House of Commons are more severe than a simple resolution of disapproval. Which would have been avoided had the garbage simply gone to the well of the floor and apologized.

None of this changes the fact that no one, as in the public would really care. You would get at best a few jokes at the end of the news about politicians acting like children. You would not get hyperpartisan outrage. By no one I mean no one beyond the speaker doing what he is obligated to do. This is true in Britain and Australia. It certainly would not be a constant topic of debate for one political side for weeks.

 

[j-mac]

This post is an excellent example of what the OP was trying to illustrate.

Hmmm.....Just thinking to myself if I really care too awful much what a liberal thinks of what I write? Um....Nope! :2wave:

I was going to say that about his previous post, but that one works too. The hacks just keep on coming.

Hacks?! What did you find a mirror? What's your real name? Stanley? :rofl


j-mac

 

[j-mac]

Ok, you do have a good point here. The President's speech, although delivered expertly, was a slap in the face to any one who opposed him.

And this in the age, or at least what we are told as the One constantly reaching out to the opposition? Yet another lie of the current admin.

Although with words he expressed interest in hearing what we Republicans have to say, he showed by the rest of the content of his speech that he really didn't care what we think.

Exactly! But yet we are supposed to lay down and go along with the plan, otherwise we are obstructionists, or offering nothing. I say BS to that!

So do you think he should be a role model for how we Republicans do politics, or should we appeal to conservatives and moderates everywhere by showing just how petty the President can be in comparison to us? Rep. Wilson showed the truthfulness of the bickering better than anything else could have, and stole from us the opportunity to show the public just how wrong the President was.

NO! Something that liberals have been getting away with for years is listening to Repubs like yourself and the tone of conciliatory, gentleman like, adherence to standards of conduct and then hold us to those rules while they can break them at will. What Joe Wilson did was to show that we are not going to be beat by Illensky type tactics anymore. I am glad he called the President on his lie, and the entire party including Wilson should have turned their back on Pelosi, and walked out when she wanted that rebuke.

Is the President a liar?

Yes

He knows how to choose his words carefully enough to defend himself from that accusation.

So he's a good liar.

Did he deceive the American people? Absolutely.

Why do I feel there is a "but" coming?

Don't get me wrong. I think a lot of good has come from Rep. Wilson's outcry in the way of carefully reviewing the President's remarks. I hope that Wilson is re-elected. I still think he is a great man. And I assure you that if you asked him personally he would tell you he regrets breaking decorum. He is a military man, and he knows the value of order.

There it is.....You know my father RIP, used to tell me that anything said before the word "but" either inferred, or expressed is total BS.

And the more we continue to strive for the high road, the better for us.

We achieve the high road by adhering to our principles, not backing down from lying liberals.

McCain had the support of at least if not more conservatives than Bush did in 2004. Moderates decide elections! If we cannot appeal to the moderates effectively in every election, we will fail again and again and again. I am not calling for sacrificing anything except for fringe talking (ie. birthers, cries of "Hitler", "the anti-christ", and "bury ObamaCare with Ted Kennedy").

McCain was a useful Idiot. played expertly by the left. If moderates win elections then McCain would have been their poster boy. Instead a teaching moment for repubs was had in 2008, lets hope they learn the lesson. Wilson did.

We have soooo much great material to beat the Democrats with: The deficit, wasteful spending, the Democrats being unwilling to regulate Freddie Mae and Fanny Mac, Obama's ridiculous health care statements that we can cover more people, raise the amount of coverage, while lowering costs. These are the kinds of things that will not win liberals, but it will and it is winning moderates, all the polls show it.

Great! We don't have to be weak sticks in putting it out there now do we?

When have I advocated throwing Rep. Wilson to the wolves? He is a great American that did a disgraceful thing. No one wants to be judged for the worst moment in their life. All I stated was he should have apologized to the House for his actions, of his own free will. I do not agree with forcing him to do it.

Um....No...no way. These liberals have been "at war" with America for decades now. Trying to tear it down, and conservatives are the only ones out there standing up for what America should be! What do we get? Called Jingoistic, Nationalists, Nazi's or worse. And what we are supposed to kiss the jack boot of Pelosi? Screw her!


j-mac

 

[Psychoclown]

Hacks?! What did you find a mirror? What's your real name? Stanley? :rofl

LOL. You deny your hackery, but you resort to the "tactic" all right wing hacks love, calling anyone who disagrees with you a liberal. Which for anyone that knows me or has read my posts is laughable. But keep going, please, you're just proving my point.

 

[Rightarrow]

Exactly! But yet we are supposed to lay down and go along with the plan, otherwise we are obstructionists, or offering nothing. I say BS to that!

WHAT ARE YOU OFFERING? All I have heard you say is that Democrats are the Devil and that Democrats are the reason for everything bad that happens in the world? Do you think a one party system is better? Competing for American votes is the only thing that keeps our politicians semi-responsible. Any party in power too long begins to abuse their power. Look at the Republicans that took over the House and Senate in 1994. They were awesome at making cuts and bringing spending into reign. Then they got comfortable and starting spending almost as bad as the Democrats!

NO! Something that liberals have been getting away with for years is listening to Repubs like yourself and the tone of conciliatory, gentleman like, adherence to standards of conduct and then hold us to those rules while they can break them at will.

I'd rather get listened to than to be rejected as a fringy because people like you make us look bad to the American people.

What Joe Wilson did was to show that we are not going to be beat by Illensky type tactics anymore. I am glad he called the President on his lie, and the entire party including Wilson should have turned their back on Pelosi, and walked out when she wanted that rebuke.

Do you realize where we would be right now without Blue Dog Democrats? If it weren't for them, we would be getting trampled on with Obama Care, Cap and Tax, and many more irresponsible bills. If we turn our backs on them, the country is lost. What you are talking about is not courage. It is cowardice in its worst form. Sticking it out and fighting with every last breath for the life savings of every American out there, even though it seems like nobody is listening, is the noble, courageous thing to do.

We achieve the high road by adhering to our principles, not backing down from lying liberals.

Since when is a simple apology "backing down"? He has already apologized. Does that mean that he already backed down? Recognizing ones own mistakes, especially when a politician does the recognizing, is something to be honored. When it comes to policy, we should never back down. But this... this is just ridiculous politics.

McCain was a useful Idiot. played expertly by the left. If moderates win elections then McCain would have been their poster boy. Instead a teaching moment for repubs was had in 2008, lets hope they learn the lesson. Wilson did.

I never said that moderates win elections. They never have and they never will. Moderates decide elections. There are more moderates in this country than either liberals or conservatives. If you purge the whole Republican party of moderates, just because they don't agree with you 100% of the time, you will be left with a shadow of a party. No party is successful by being exclusive.

And by the way, on just what policy has McCain EVER BEEN MODERATE? He has led the fight against every single irresponsible legislation that has come at us from the left. He is not my favorite politician, but he is a very useful one.

Um....No...no way. These liberals have been "at war" with America for decades now. Trying to tear it down, and conservatives are the only ones out there standing up for what America should be! What do we get? Called Jingoistic, Nationalists, Nazi's or worse. And what we are supposed to kiss the jack boot of Pelosi? Screw her!

We get called those names because of idiots like you that make us look bad. Do you realize that most Republicans don't think like you? The 9/12 protest was amazingly orderly and unlike Wilson in every way, except for the few fringies like you that the leftist media portrayed. Do you realize they didn't even leave any trash? Very unlike the huge mess that was left at the inaugural speech of Obama. Even more unlike the Vietnam protest where they were glad nobody was killed. And there were at least over 1 million people there, probably closer to 1.8 million (there were only 750,000 at the vietnam protest).

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Hmmm.....Just thinking to myself if I really care too awful much what a liberal thinks of what I write? Um....Nope! :2wave:

j-mac

As long as you recognize that you are a hyperpartisan hack, it's OK with me whether you care or not. I'll just keep pointing it out each time I see you do it. :2wave:

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

WHAT ARE YOU OFFERING? All I have heard you say is that Democrats are the Devil and that Democrats are the reason for everything bad that happens in the world? Do you think a one party system is better? Competing for American votes is the only thing that keeps our politicians semi-responsible. Any party in power too long begins to abuse their power. Look at the Republicans that took over the House and Senate in 1994. They were awesome at making cuts and bringing spending into reign. Then they got comfortable and starting spending almost as bad as the Democrats!



I'd rather get listened to than to be rejected as a fringy because people like you make us look bad to the American people.



Do you realize where we would be right now without Blue Dog Democrats? If it weren't for them, we would be getting trampled on with Obama Care, Cap and Tax, and many more irresponsible bills. If we turn our backs on them, the country is lost. What you are talking about is not courage. It is cowardice in its worst form. Sticking it out and fighting with every last breath for the life savings of every American out there, even though it seems like nobody is listening, is the noble, courageous thing to do.



Since when is a simple apology "backing down"? He has already apologized. Does that mean that he already backed down? Recognizing ones own mistakes, especially when a politician does the recognizing, is something to be honored. When it comes to policy, we should never back down. But this... this is just ridiculous politics.



I never said that moderates win elections. They never have and they never will. Moderates decide elections. There are more moderates in this country than either liberals or conservatives. If you purge the whole Republican party of moderates, just because they don't agree with you 100% of the time, you will be left with a shadow of a party. No party is successful by being exclusive.

And by the way, on just what policy has McCain EVER BEEN MODERATE? He has led the fight against every single irresponsible legislation that has come at us from the left. He is not my favorite politician, but he is a very useful one.



We get called those names because of idiots like you that make us look bad. Do you realize that most Republicans don't think like you? The 9/12 protest was amazingly orderly and unlike Wilson in every way, except for the few fringies like you that the leftist media portrayed. Do you realize they didn't even leave any trash? Very unlike the huge mess that was left at the inaugural speech of Obama. Even more unlike the Vietnam protest where they were glad nobody was killed. And there were at least over 1 million people there, probably closer to 1.8 million (there were only 750,000 at the vietnam protest).

Good post.

You know, j-mac, when conservatives are pointing out you're a hack, it might be time to look at your behavior. Just saying.