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Jeb Bush Confronted By College Student: 'Your Brother Created ISIS'


In an interview with Vice News, President Obama said the rise of Islamic State (IS, also known as ISIS/ISIL) can be directly linked to America’s excursion into Iraq under Bush.

The group originated as Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad in 1999, which pledged allegiance to al-Qaeda in 2004. The group participated in the Iraqi insurgency, which had followed the March 2003 invasion of Iraq. In January 2006, it joined other Sunni insurgent groups to form the Mujahideen Shura Council, which in October 2006 proclaimed the formation of the Islamic State of Iraq (ISI).

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant
 

Spoken like a true neocon and of course totally false. Saddam for all his brutality was not a follower of "radical Islam". He was a secular dictator who feared Islamic radicals and would not let them take hold in Iraq. Removing him is what emboldened the radicals and it revived the Sunni/Shiite war by upsetting the balance in favor of Iranian Shiites. ISIS rose out of the veterans of the war in Iraq and was fueled there by the oppressive Shiite Govt. we installed there. The idea that we could install functioning democracies in the ME was the stupidest foreign policy idea in US history. So stupid that I suspect that it was just a cover for endless wars to satisfy what Eisenhower called the "miltary industrial complex".
 
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while it's more complicated than that and the foreign policy mistakes go back much further than GWB, yeah, the Iraq war and interventionism in the region led to the rise of IS. they are an offshoot of Al Qaeda, which traces its roots back to the Mujahideen. i have argued multiple times on this site that the best thing that we can do is to get completely out of that region for thirty or forty years and give it a chance to stabilize. this will have the added benefit of forcing the regional hegemons to do their own jobs rather than to sit there waiting for a foreign power to do it for them.
 
shrubnose said:
Ignorance can be cured by education, but there's no cure for stupidity.
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True, but doesn't seem like this particular person is getting their money's worth from their higher educational institution. I wonder which left wing prof whispered this little false meme into her brain.

It's pretty clear that Obama's failure in achieving Status of Forces agreements with Iraq and Afghanistan, causing the troop pull out, and his injecting himself in to the Syrian situation is what allowed ISIS to flourish and grow.

ludin said:
evidently that college isn't doing a good job, of course most college aren't learning institutions anymore they are political spin machines.
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Yup.
 
I would think it was Mohammed who created ISIS.
 

Nice to see Bush getting out there and confronting issues the American people want to discuss. No one ever said it should be easy to win the greatest job in the world.

Meanwhile, back in Hillaryville, you're lucky to get a sighting of woman who feels entitled to the Presidency, even a glimpse of her plastic smile, let alone have her face media questioning or confrontation with real Americans.
 

Totally agree. Neocon interventionist warmongers will have no part of that.
 
CRUE CAB said:
Yea, ok. So the Bush administration didn't recommend a residual force?Obama flip-flops on Iraq: Not having residual forces
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That's beside the point of the op, which is that the Islamic State was organizing in Iraq while Bush was looking for his phantom WMD that could have created a mushroom cloud over a US city, and so named themselves the Islamic State in Iraq in 2006 and added the second S (Syria) when that power vacuum of opportunity opened up for them as well.
 
George W. Bush did not create Isis. He has nothing to do with the doctrine they follow, did not cause them to be born of such an inbred culture, and did not really influence their creation. What he did was to remove that which kept them from exploding.

There are countless bottles of champagne lining store shelves everywhere. It is only when the cork is popped that all the bubbly starts pouring out, and so it isn't the popping of the cork that created the champagne. The champagne was already there. Similarly, Bush's misadventure in Iraq didn't "create" Isis. He simply popped the cork on the bottle that kept them from exploding.
 

They have been around since 1999, so I guess we can blame Clinton.
 
LOL @ Jeb Bush, thinking he could avoid this question throughout the election. Wait till the primaries start and we see his signature on the PNAC, which called for an Iraq invasion prior to his brother's presidency.
 

Its the total point. Bush wanted to keep troops there so this WOULDNT HAPPEN.
 
Had Assad remained in firm control of Syria, ISIS would not exist. True, ISIS has remnants of AQ in Iraq, but where did AQ in Iraq come from? It came from AQ in Afghanistan. Where did they come from? From a religious ideology stuck in the Dark Ages. Islam is to blame for ISIS, Bush isn't.
 

It seems pretty obvious that Muhamed created ISIS, given thats exactly what they have said. They claim to be descended from Muhamed and told by God to establish an Islamic state. Perhaps what the student meant was that a complex set of foreign policis and circumstances allowed ISIS to succeed.
 
CRUE CAB said:
Yea, ok. So the Bush administration didn't recommend a residual force?
Obama flip-flops on Iraq: Not having residual forces
On Decision to Leave No Troops in Iraq, Hillary Clinton Points to Bush
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Recommend is one thing, but without Iraqi compliance with the idea all we are talking about is forced occupation.

The reality is this chain of events started with a choice, one that predates Obama. In all fairness, in some ways even predates Bush 43. But it was Bush 43 who removed Saddam and replaced it with a government that was unable to secure their own nation. The only alternative is the South Korea model, were we stay indefinitely at our fiscal budget cost.
 

First of all, I don't really care what Obama has to say on the subject. Second, your history needs to go back a bit farther than your own political bias. They seek a Caliphate in the Levant. So you would have to understand what those are and how Bush has nothing to do with either.
 
iguanaman said:
S The idea that we could install functioning democracies in the ME was the stupidest foreign policy idea in US history. S".
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And why is that? Because it failed so miserably in Europe and Japan?

Are you one of those bigots who believe the Arab people are too stupid to rule themselves?.
I thought 'progressives' ( choke gag) were supposed to believe the best in people ,not the worst.
 

But he didn't, and while al-Assad has that culpability it does not remove the culpability we set up in Iraq. They are all moving parts and we cannot pick one to blame and ignore everyone else, we have to evaluate it all. Which is why I said in my original post #3, that "In an odd way, she is right."

To your point, that is strong one. It takes this religious ideology to engage in the practice we see. My point it is, we see degrees of it anyway. All over the place all over this region including in nations we call a "friend."
 
ludin said:
evidently that college isn't doing a good job, of course most college aren't learning institutions anymore they are political spin machines.
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Just curious, do you have a college degree? If so, what level and what in?

CRUE CAB said:
Not even close.
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Please explain why you believe there is no connection - direct or indirect - to the formation and subsequent uprising of ISIS in the aftermath of the War in Iraq?
 
iguanaman said:
Spoken like a true neocon and of course totally false. Saddam for all his brutality was not a follower of "radical Islam". He was a secular dictator who feared Islamic radicals and would not let them take hold in Iraq.ex".
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Small thinking. Thinking inside the box.

The basic premise was that terrorists tend not to exist in functional democracies. Saddam Hussein was an impediment to that, thus needed to be romoved. ( that and about a dozen other reason)
 
CRUE CAB said:
Its the total point. Bush wanted to keep troops there so this WOULDNT HAPPEN.
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You support keeping our troops in every place on the planet indefinitely without raising taxes. Let me guess you also believe in personal responsibility except when it comes to putting our troops in harms way.
 
KLATTU said:
Small thinking. Thinking inside the box.

The basic premise was that terrorists tend not to exist in functional democracies. Saddam Hussein was an impediment to that, thus needed to be romoved. ( that and about a dozen other reason)
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Saddam Hussein needed to be removed because he was preventing terrorists from overrunning the region? Spoken like a true neocon...
 

What Jeb Bush is essentially saying is "the war was won, we gained stability in Iraq and that stability would have held had a 10,000 strong U.S. residual force had been allowed to remain in Iraq". But here's the problem with that narrative: ISIS was already forming long before the decision was made to withdraw U.S. combat forces from Iraq.

Now, while I would agree that not having U.S. troops in country to act as a buffer between peaceful Iraqis and rebel/insurgent factions helped ISIS to spread because the Iraqi government/military was unable to curtail the sectarian violence that was happening in their country, I disagree with the notion that Pres. Obama and his Administration was responsibly for ISIS to come into existence. That, ladies and gentlemen, is the focus of the young lady's question.

Here is a very good article detailing how ISIS came to be.

http://thediplomat.com/2014/08/iran-didnt-create-isis-we-did/

From the article:



Here is a very good article that helps to explain how ISIS was able to go on the rise and spread outside of Iraq.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/origin-isis_804002.html?page=2

From the article:

 
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