I've noticed something has changed about the abortion debate on DP

[Gordy327]

So you think everything in the U.S. Constitution should be taken literally.

Do you use the same reasoning about the lack of mention of "privacy" in the Constitution?

I have my doubts that you do.

The constitution should be considered in word and spirit. Just because something is not explicitly mentioned in the constitution doesn't mean it does not have legal and constitutional weight, especially when it's supported by SCOTUS precedents, such as privacy, which confers with the spirit if the constitution.

 

[Gordy327]

You ladies should are hell bent on murdering your babies.

Let it go. No "right" is worth that.

Murdering babies is already illegal. But there are no babies in an abortion.

 

[Gordy327]

Notice how @Dayton3 made some strange insult first and then turned around and claimed to be the victim? LOL

Yes, I've noticed. Not to mention the use of emotionally charged words or appeal to emotion.

 

[Gordy327]

I’ll bet that one is an “originalist,” too.

A Justice Scalia wannabe maybe?

 

[Bodi]

You ladies should are hell bent on murdering your babies.

Killing our fetuses is not murdering a baby...

 

[NatMorton]

I don't believe there to be a distinction between federal and state rights. Persons either possess a right or they do not. It's as simple as that.

So, for example, if Massachustetts passed a law that gave everyone in the state a right to healthcare, you wouldn’t believe it?

 

[NatMorton]

It was and is true...

Read Roe. You’re going to be surprised.

That is a stupid non-argument. It doesn't happen. Okay

Even if that were true, it’s not the point. The point is that third trimester bans exist and they exist because states declare a fetal right to life.

 

[The Baron]

Yup.

And you holding women as broodmares (aka- forced pregnancy)...

You may find this difficult to believe but most women get pregnant because they engage in behavior that will result in a pregnancy. As they do this willingly it can't be forced.

...is 1000% against my religious/spiritual beliefs.

And just what is your "religion"?

How does this translate in practice?

Where’s the common ground? RvW was a compromise and ruled 7-2 with a conservative majority.

The extreme nutters have put us back 40 plus years...

I find it difficult to believe that not wanting to murder children is an "extreme nutters" view.

That is a description I would save for those that actually want to kill the unborn.

....if you think women won’t fight back, I have 7 bridges over the willamette river to sell you.

You do realize that there will be women fighting against you, as well, don't you?

Why do you think your opinion matters at all in the lives of strangers?

That blade cuts both ways...why do you think you're opinion matters to strangers...or at all?

 

[minnie616]

You may find this difficult to believe but most women get pregnant because they engage in behavior that will result in a pregnancy. As they do this willingly it can't be forced.

And just what is your "religion"?
……

Rape is forced sex.

I am not @Doppelgangirl
But there are many Protestant religions & religious groups and a the vast majority of Jewish sects are pro choice.

Here is a list of Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice( RCRC )members from Wiki:

Member organizations

Coalition Council Members:[5]


Rabbinical Assembly
United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism
Women's League for Conservative Judaism
The Episcopal Church
American Ethical Union National Service Conference
Society for Humanistic Judaism
Presbyterians Affirming Reproductive Options (PARO) of the Presbyterian Church (USA)
Jewish Reconstructionist Federation
Reconstructionist Rabbinical Association
Central Conference of American Rabbis
North American Federation of Temple Youth
Women of Reform Judaism, The Federation of Temple Sisterhoods
Women's Rabbinic Network of Central Conference of American Rabbis
The United Church of Christ
Unitarian Universalist Association
Unitarian Universalist Women's Federation website
Young Religious Unitarian Universalists
Continental Unitarian Universalist Young Adult Network
American Jewish Committee
American Jewish Congress
Anti-Defamation League
Catholics for Choice
Christian Lesbians Out (CLOUT)
Church of the Brethren Women's Caucus
Disciples for Choice
Episcopal Urban Caucus
Episcopal Women's Caucus
Hadassah, WZOA
Jewish Women International
Lutheran Women's Caucus
Methodist Federation for Social Action
NA'AMAT USA
National Council of Jewish Women
Women's American ORT
YWCA of the USA

 

[Cordelier]

So, for example, if Massachustetts passed a law that gave everyone in the state a right to healthcare, you wouldn’t believe it?

If the State gives it, the State can take it away. Ip so facto, it is not a right but a privilege.

 

[minnie616]

If the State gives it, the State can take it away. Ip so facto, it is not a right but a privilege.

That’s a very good point.

And I will add that :
If the state can ban abortions, the state can also force abortions on women to save the money.

Choice would allow a women to continue a pregnancy of a fetus with a catastrophic fetal defect.

But the state could force the woman to have an abortion on the grounds that if did survive birth it would cost the taxpayers millions of dollars in medical bills and die within the year perhaps never being able to leave the hospital.

 

[Cordelier]

That’s a very good point.
If the state can ban abortions, the state can also force abortions on women to save the money.

Choice would allow a women to continue a pregnancy of a fetus with a catastrophic fetal defect.

But the state could force the woman to have an abortion on the grounds that if did survive birth it would cost the taxpayers millions of dollars in medical bills and die within the year perhaps never being able to leave the hospital.

Good point. Of course the other side will say it will never happen all the while they give the power to do so to the State.

 

[Bodi]

Read Roe. You’re going to be surprised.

I never said that it was in Roe.

Even if that were true, it’s not the point. The point is that third trimester bans exist and they exist because states declare a fetal right to life.

Yeah. So?

 

[choiceone]

Go ahead. I've never had any kind of sex outside of marriage. Thus I have no problems whatsoever judging those of you who have. And no it matters not whether you care about what I think.

I'm the only one that matters in this regard.

This is not just about non-marital sex. Married women also have limits on the number of kids they want. Pregnancy is terrible for women, and women who have too many pregnancies ruin their health. Many married people can't afford more kids. And this is also about abortion for medical reasons, because abortion bans result in women with incomplete miscarriages and seriously deformed fetuses not having proper treatment by doctors afraid of getting arrested. Some rape victims are also already married.

 

[choiceone]

You ladies should are hell bent on murdering your babies.

Let it go. No "right" is worth that.

No right is worth what? There are girls and women who, as pregnant rape victims, commit suicide.

 

[Bodi]

You may find this difficult to believe but most women get pregnant because they engage in behavior that will result in a pregnancy. As they do this willingly it can't be forced.

Forced does not relate to getting pregnant... but against staying pregnant.

And just what is your "religion"?

I find it difficult to believe that not wanting to murder children is an "extreme nutters" view.

No children are being murdered during an abortion... that is one reason they are Nutters.

That is a description I would save for those that actually want to kill the unborn.

You do realize that there will be women fighting against you, as well, don't you?

Then they can Choose to not have an abortion... trying to force others makes anybody, male or female, a disgusting piece of trash.

That blade cuts both ways...why do you think you're opinion matters to strangers...or at all?

 

[Bodi]

No right is worth what? There are girls and women who, as pregnant rape victims, commit suicide.

Pro-Oppressors don't care any more than Pro-Gun advocates don't care about how many school children are executed with guns...

 

[Dayton3]

No right is worth what? There are girls and women who, as pregnant rape victims, commit suicide.

You people treat rape victims as your non religious icons.

Yet only a tiny portion of abortions are conducted on rape victims.

And for rape victims there is always the so called morning-after pill that prevents implantation (and thus pregnancy).

 

[Gordy327]

You people treat rape victims as your non religious icons.

Yet only a tiny portion of abortions are conducted on rape victims.

And for rape victims there is always the so called morning-after pill that prevents implantation (and thus pregnancy).

That post is completely dismissive of rape victims and the trauma they endure.

 

[Lursa]

Read Roe. You’re going to be surprised.


Even if that were true, it’s not the point. The point is that third trimester bans exist and they exist because states declare a fetal right to life.

You really need to stop lying about that. For months, thread after thread, you have failed to show anywhere that states have recognized a right to life for the unborn.

Please do so, or stop lying about it. It's just ridiculous for you to pretend you dont know there's no such thing.

 

[Lursa]

That blade cuts both ways...why do you think you're opinion matters to strangers...or at all?

The difference is that she's not trying to force her opinion on others that believe differently. That's why it's called 'choice.'

There's no justification for 'strangers' to demand women suffer thru the risks and pain of pregnancy/childbirth against their will. That's immoral.

 

[The Baron]

Rape is forced sex.

That is correct. Good for you!

I am not @Doppelgangirl
But there are many Protestant religions & religious groups and a the vast majority of Jewish sects are pro choice.

That's true.

And?

Here is a list of Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice( RCRC )members from Wiki:

Member organizations

Coalition Council Members:[5]


Rabbinical Assembly
United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism
Women's League for Conservative Judaism
The Episcopal Church
American Ethical Union National Service Conference
Society for Humanistic Judaism
Presbyterians Affirming Reproductive Options (PARO) of the Presbyterian Church (USA)
Jewish Reconstructionist Federation
Reconstructionist Rabbinical Association
Central Conference of American Rabbis
North American Federation of Temple Youth
Women of Reform Judaism, The Federation of Temple Sisterhoods
Women's Rabbinic Network of Central Conference of American Rabbis
The United Church of Christ
Unitarian Universalist Association
Unitarian Universalist Women's Federation website
Young Religious Unitarian Universalists
Continental Unitarian Universalist Young Adult Network
American Jewish Committee
American Jewish Congress
Anti-Defamation League
Catholics for Choice
Christian Lesbians Out (CLOUT)
Church of the Brethren Women's Caucus
Disciples for Choice
Episcopal Urban Caucus
Episcopal Women's Caucus
Hadassah, WZOA
Jewish Women International
Lutheran Women's Caucus
Methodist Federation for Social Action
NA'AMAT USA
National Council of Jewish Women
Women's American ORT
YWCA of the USA

So what?

 

[The Baron]

Forced does not relate to getting pregnant... but against staying pregnant.

Don't want to be pregnant. Don't engage in those activities that will get you pregnant. There are options in life. Adults choose their options wisely.

No children are being murdered during an abortion...

This is a lie.

Then they can Choose to not have an abortion...

"Then they can Choose to not to get pregnant..."

Fixed it for ya!

 

[The Baron]

The difference is that she's not trying to force her opinion on others that believe differently. That's why it's called 'choice.'

I've noticed the child doesn't get a say in an abortion.

That's doesn't sound like a "choice" to me.

There's no justification for 'strangers' to demand women suffer thru the risks and pain of pregnancy/childbirth against their will. That's immoral.

Murdering the most innocent among us is immoral.

 

[minnie616]

So what?

The First Amendment does apply to pro choice religions.
If the new Supreme Court overturns Roe it takes away our soul competency.

The First amendment Provides that the government “shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.”

According to the Supreme Court, the clause protects individuals’ right to exercise their religion of choice and prohibits government regulations that target religious beliefs.

The free exercise clause protects not only religious beliefs but acts involved with religious practice. Under the clause, the government may not compel religious belief, punish religious expression, or impose regulations that favor one religion over another.

…….

If the new religious Right Justices overturn Roe they are unconstitutionally ignoring the First Amendment .

They will be interfering with the sincerity held beliefs of Jewish sects and Pro Choice Protestant religions.

The Roe Justices took our sincerely held religious beliefs into consideration in Part IX Roe v Wade:

There has always been strong support for the view that life does not begin until live' birth. This was the belief of the Stoics. [Footnote 56] It appears to be the predominant, though not the unanimous, attitude of the Jewish faith. [Footnote 57] It may be taken to represent also the position of a large segment of the Protestant community, insofar as that can be ascertained; organized groups that have taken a formal position on the abortion issue have generally regarded abortion as a matter for the conscience of the individual and her family. [Footnote 58].