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I've Been Communicating With Roger Stone For The Past year

wordclown

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In November of 2017, I began corresponding with Roger Stone about narrating a short animated piece that covered the history of Hillary Clinton. The animation is part of a series I created called “The Sandbox Weekly”, which consists of topical headlines from the point of view of kids, and drawn with crayons. I had been avoiding anything political since there seems to be no shortage of political news, but if I wanted to be topical with my series, politics were unavoidable.

I decided to go the Clinton route and thought “Who better to narrate and be a part of this episode than Roger Stone himself?” I reached out to his people with a rough idea of the episode, not expecting a response. A week after emailing, he responded and asked to see a script. I sent him a basic script in the vein of a bedtime story, as if he were talking to children about everything Clinton.

He quickly sent two different audio versions of his take on the script. Months passed, and I continued animating and receiving more audio from Mr. Stone. I eventually found myself throwing in a few visual jabs at Trump as the tone and subject matter called for it. The idea of taking shots at Trump while listening to Roger tell his story became more intriguing. I began requesting audio that wasn’t exactly directed at Clinton, but more about how politicians are generally inclined to lies and corruption. To my excitement, and surprise, Roger continued sending me what I needed.

So, am I wrong? What would you do in my situation?
 

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So, am I wrong? What would you do in my situation?
Well, Mr. Undisclosed, your bent is as obvious as Trump’s combover. Roger Stone as a natural choice to narrate a kids story about HRC? Please. You want advice? Wash your hands and your phone after speaking with Stone.
 

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In November of 2017, I began corresponding with Roger Stone about narrating a short animated piece that covered the history of Hillary Clinton. The animation is part of a series I created called “The Sandbox Weekly”, which consists of topical headlines from the point of view of kids, and drawn with crayons. I had been avoiding anything political since there seems to be no shortage of political news, but if I wanted to be topical with my series, politics were unavoidable.

I decided to go the Clinton route and thought “Who better to narrate and be a part of this episode than Roger Stone himself?” I reached out to his people with a rough idea of the episode, not expecting a response. A week after emailing, he responded and asked to see a script. I sent him a basic script in the vein of a bedtime story, as if he were talking to children about everything Clinton.

He quickly sent two different audio versions of his take on the script. Months passed, and I continued animating and receiving more audio from Mr. Stone. I eventually found myself throwing in a few visual jabs at Trump as the tone and subject matter called for it. The idea of taking shots at Trump while listening to Roger tell his story became more intriguing. I began requesting audio that wasn’t exactly directed at Clinton, but more about how politicians are generally inclined to lies and corruption. To my excitement, and surprise, Roger continued sending me what I needed.

So, am I wrong? What would you do in my situation?

It seems everybody has a plot and an angle.
 

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In November of 2017, I began corresponding with Roger Stone about narrating a short animated piece that covered the history of Hillary Clinton. The animation is part of a series I created called “The Sandbox Weekly”, which consists of topical headlines from the point of view of kids, and drawn with crayons. I had been avoiding anything political since there seems to be no shortage of political news, but if I wanted to be topical with my series, politics were unavoidable.

I decided to go the Clinton route and thought “Who better to narrate and be a part of this episode than Roger Stone himself?” I reached out to his people with a rough idea of the episode, not expecting a response. A week after emailing, he responded and asked to see a script. I sent him a basic script in the vein of a bedtime story, as if he were talking to children about everything Clinton.

He quickly sent two different audio versions of his take on the script. Months passed, and I continued animating and receiving more audio from Mr. Stone. I eventually found myself throwing in a few visual jabs at Trump as the tone and subject matter called for it. The idea of taking shots at Trump while listening to Roger tell his story became more intriguing. I began requesting audio that wasn’t exactly directed at Clinton, but more about how politicians are generally inclined to lies and corruption. To my excitement, and surprise, Roger continued sending me what I needed.

So, am I wrong? What would you do in my situation?

Get paid.
 

Captain Adverse

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In November of 2017, I began corresponding with Roger Stone about narrating a short animated piece that covered the history of Hillary Clinton. The animation is part of a series I created called “The Sandbox Weekly”, which consists of topical headlines from the point of view of kids, and drawn with crayons. I had been avoiding anything political since there seems to be no shortage of political news, but if I wanted to be topical with my series, politics were unavoidable.

I decided to go the Clinton route and thought “Who better to narrate and be a part of this episode than Roger Stone himself?” I reached out to his people with a rough idea of the episode, not expecting a response. A week after emailing, he responded and asked to see a script. I sent him a basic script in the vein of a bedtime story, as if he were talking to children about everything Clinton.

He quickly sent two different audio versions of his take on the script. Months passed, and I continued animating and receiving more audio from Mr. Stone. I eventually found myself throwing in a few visual jabs at Trump as the tone and subject matter called for it. The idea of taking shots at Trump while listening to Roger tell his story became more intriguing. I began requesting audio that wasn’t exactly directed at Clinton, but more about how politicians are generally inclined to lies and corruption. To my excitement, and surprise, Roger continued sending me what I needed.

So, am I wrong? What would you do in my situation?

If you have been entirely honest with him about your production, then there should be no problem.

However, if you have misled Mr. Stone in any way about how your piece is being constructed then I suggest you DON'T use any of his narration. Don't assume anything.

If you are unsure of his understanding, then I suggest you contact him and explain EXACTLY what you intend to produce and ask his express permission to continue using his narrative.
 

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Are you getting any nibbles from "P" and "S"?
 

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If you have been entirely honest with him about your production, then there should be no problem.

However, if you have misled Mr. Stone in any way about how your piece is being constructed then I suggest you DON'T use any of his narration. Don't assume anything.

If you are unsure of his understanding, then I suggest you contact him and explain EXACTLY what you intend to produce and ask his express permission to continue using his narrative.

That isn't how it works.
In the industry, if talent signed the contract, they signed the contract.
You can't just turn around and decide that you didn't like the checks you received, or that the agreement is null and void.
Stone is "talent", specifically VO talent. He can exercise his option to not work on any further episodes than those he contracted for, but that's it.

There's a reason Prince felt compelled to change his name to an unpronouncable symbol. He didn't like the contract he signed, but he was nevertheless still "under contract" and had to perform to meet the terms of the contract.
His name change was part of his protest. Eventually he was able to negotiate OUT of that contract but it took a fair bit of effort, and money, to do so.

Likewise, if Stone has signed a contract, he has already given his express permission.
Renegging is breach of contract.
 

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That isn't how it works.
In the industry, if talent signed the contract, they signed the contract.
You can't just turn around and decide that you didn't like the checks you received, or that the agreement is null and void.
Stone is "talent", specifically VO talent. He can exercise his option to not work on any further episodes than those he contracted for, but that's it.

There's a reason Prince felt compelled to change his name to an unpronouncable symbol. He didn't like the contract he signed, but he was nevertheless still "under contract" and had to perform to meet the terms of the contract.
His name change was part of his protest. Eventually he was able to negotiate OUT of that contract but it took a fair bit of effort, and money, to do so.

Likewise, if Stone has signed a contract, he has already given his express permission.
Renegging is breach of contract.

Did you see her post anything stating she had a "contract?" Is Mr. Stone being paid for his "narrative?"

All contracts, even oral ones, require an offer and an acceptance. The terms must be clear.

This seems a simple verbal agreement based on her original outline concerning Hillary Clinton. She admits that she has NOT told him that she is changing/modifying the agreement to also target someone else, just simply asking him for more general narratives.

It is a breach of contract any time EITHER party changes the terms without the agreement of the other party.

Mr. Stone, having a cordial relationship with the target of her changes may be negatively affected if his narrative is used in some way that could harm him, or his relationship without his knowledge and consent.

Mr. Stone does not seem shy about suing people. IMO she should just let him know what she is doing and get his permission, maybe he won't care about the changes if they are truly minor.
 
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Did you see her post anything stating she had a "contract?" Is Mr. Stone being paid for his "narrative?"

All contracts, even oral ones, require an offer and an acceptance. The terms must be clear.

This seems a simple verbal agreement based on her original outline. She admits that she has NOT told him that she is changing the agreement, just simply asking him for more general narratives.

It is a breach of contract any time EITHER party changes the terms without the agreement of the other party.

I also did not see anything he posted stating that Stone was NOT under contract.
And since neither you nor I have seen the contract, if any, we do not know how specific the terms are, or how vague.
 

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I also did not see anything he posted stating that Stone was NOT under contract.
And since neither you nor I have seen the contract, if any, we do not know how specific the terms are, or how vague.

Well, she is ASKING if it is okay to do what she plans to try to do. She also admits she has NOT told him her plans.

That indicates she knows what she is doing was NOT part of the agreement. That should be self-evident to anyone reading her OP.
 
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The only thing wordclown should be concerned about is whether or not Roger Stone is on good friendly terms with G. Gordon Liddy, which I seem to doubt, or we'd already have wind of that long ago.

If he is, one can still take comfort in the fact that Liddy is now in his mid to late eighties, but were this the year 2000 or before, I'd be quite concerned.

My first wife was previously married to Red Dawn producer Barry Beckerman.
Beckerman teamed up with John Milius on an unnamed spy movie and they enlisted Liddy as a consultant.
Liddy apparently took a dislike to Beckerman, and by the second meeting he began to show signs he wanted out. He took one more meeting, then announced he was through.
Barry Beckerman did not get the hint and pressed Liddy further, much to Milius' amusement.
It wasn't a pretty ending, but more importantly, by the time Beckerman made the thirty minute journey back to his home in Bel-Air, he discovered that his palatial home had received an unwanted visitor.

Although there was no sign of forced entry whatsoever, Beckerman's second floor home office had been thoroughly ransacked and anything and everything in the form of Barry's notes about Liddy had disappeared.
Not one thing had been taken other than Beckerman's copious notes about Liddy, and the contracts, of course.

No sign of entry, no sign of egress, home was thoroughly outfitted with security, but it didn't matter.
No trace of whoever went in to do the deed, and the security system had simply been disabled.
All of this happened in the thirty or so minutes between Liddy walking out and Beckerman arriving back home.

G Gordon Liddy was maybe in his late 60's or early 70's then.
Not that he necessarily did anything himself but he still had the juice to see that the deed was done.
Now, being this is 2018, maybe he doesn't have the juice anymore, but you never know with guys like Liddy, and Stone and Liddy used to be pals, or at the very least, professional peers.
 

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Well, she is ASKING if it is okay to do what she plans to try to do. She also admits she has NOT told him her plans.

That indicates she knows what she is doing was NOT part of the agreement. That should be self-evident to anyone reading her OP.

It's also self evident that you're not looking very closely at this thread.
How can I tell?
You're the only one here who thinks wordclown is female.
 

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I saw the headline and hoped it was a medium talking. How disappointing.
 

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It's also self evident that you're not looking very closely at this thread.
How can I tell?
You're the only one here who thinks wordclown is female.

Deflection...noted. :roll:

I addressed the question, you respond with an appeal to authority "I know how entertainment contracts work." I respond that this does not appear to be an "entertainment contract" where there is an "actor/performer" aware that they are playing a role, but rather a narrator who is volunteering statements for a political cartoon because he thinks it is targeting a political opponent.

I am giving the OP reasonable advice based on the information provided, while you are not (IMO).

If the OP does not think "HE" is doing anything wrong, then there is no point to his asking for advice in this thread.


Yes, I apologize for the mistake.

That does not mean I was not offering reasonable advice. :shrug:
 
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wordclown

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I appreciate any and all advice. Seriously. Of course I'm going through with this. It's just always good to get different opinions and takes on the trailer and idea etc. No contracts. No agreements. Lots of random audio. It is what it is. Good times.The link is in my profile under "Homepage"
Deflection...noted. :roll:

I addressed the question, you respond with an appeal to authority "I know how entertainment contracts work." I respond that this does not appear to be an "entertainment contract" where there is an "actor/performer" aware that they are playing a role, but rather a political cartoon the narrator is volunteering statements for because he thinks it is targeting a political opponent.

I am giving the OP reasonable advice based on the information provided, while you are not (IMO).

If the OP does not think "HE" is doing anything wrong, then there is no point to his asking for advice in this thread.



Yes, I apologize for the mistake.

That does not mean I was not offering reasonable advice. :shrug:
 

wordclown

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Thanks. No contract but we exchanged emails with him giving my blessing to "Cross the line if needed." I've sent him random scenes that don't include his voice. We shall see. Thanks again.
So, as I suspected there is no agreement. Then without one you cannot use Mr. Stone's spoken words without his express permission in your production.

This is not the same situation as those which fall under the "fair use" doctrine which applies to copyright material.

When in doubt in this kind of situation it is better to ask permission before you do it, rather than beg forgiveness after. ;)
 

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Deflection...noted. :roll:

I addressed the question, you respond with an appeal to authority "I know how entertainment contracts work."

If everything looks like debate to you, then you're out to win a debate.
I am not out to win a debate.

I'm semi-retired from thirty-five years in the business, Emmy nominated, worked on several Emmy winning projects, four time Telly award winner, and I even got to shoot some fun stuff but mostly I was an editor, a film editor and occasionally a producer.
I've even sat in the director's chair a couple of times but had more fun being the TD (technical director) because then I got to be the "guitar" that a GOOD director wanted to pick up and play.

I own the copyright on a small handful of music shows and interviews, and that sometimes put me face to face with people who try to sue.
I spent my formative years as a young greenie doing consumer video stuff for anyone who looked me up in the Yellow Pages.
That also put me face to face with similar situations only it was me trying to sue, because this or that occasional client wanted to skip out on paying.

I'm not a lawyer, but I've hired some from time to time.
This is not a political debate so I am not appealing to authority or appealing to anything.
I am simply sharing personal experience and what I've learned after putting a lot of my own hard earned money into an attorney's checking account.

If you don't believe what I am trying to tell you, it's not going to make a shred of difference to me.
 

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Thanks. No contract but we exchanged emails with him giving my blessing to "Cross the line if needed." I've sent him random scenes that don't include his voice. We shall see. Thanks again.

Well, that's almost a contract but not quite.
You writers, hee hee...get a contract, and get a pit bull in a three piece suit.
 

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If everything looks like debate to you, then you're out to win a debate.
I am not out to win a debate.

I'm semi-retired from thirty-five years in the business, Emmy nominated, worked on several Emmy winning projects, four time Telly award winner, and I even got to shoot some fun stuff but mostly I was an editor, a film editor and occasionally a producer.
I've even sat in the director's chair a couple of times but had more fun being the TD (technical director) because then I got to be the "guitar" that a GOOD director wanted to pick up and play...

I'm not a lawyer, but I've hired some from time to time...I am simply sharing personal experience and what I've learned after putting a lot of my own hard earned money into an attorney's checking account.

If you don't believe what I am trying to tell you, it's not going to make a shred of difference to me.

My point was that you jumped to conclusions with no basis in fact, whereas I looked at what the OP wrote, and addressed the point that whatever it was he was talking about, it did not appear to be your suggestion of an "entertainment contract."

This you subsequently discovered for yourself and admitted with this next post:

Well, that's almost a contract but not quite.
You writers, hee hee...get a contract, and get a pit bull in a three piece suit.

Thus my advice was on point, based on my own education in Contract Law and my own experiences with contracts.

However, I was not giving the OP "legal advice," just offering my personal opinion as a Forum member based on his proffered fact pattern.
 
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My point was that you jumped to conclusions with no basis in fact, whereas I looked at what the OP wrote, and addressed the point that whatever it was he was talking about, it did not appear to be your suggestion of an "entertainment contract."

This you subsequently discovered for yourself and admitted with this next post:



Thus my advice was on point, based on my own education in Contract Law and my own experiences with contracts.

However, I was not giving the OP "legal advice," just offering my personal opinion as a Forum member based on his proffered fact pattern.

Fair enough, if you don't actually have a contract, you leave yourself open for all manner of stuff, no dispute there.
 
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