Israel (1 Viewer)

[superskippy]

How many of you think Israel is doing the right thing in Gaza and the West Bank, by that I mean border checkpoints, terror sweeps, assisinating terrorists, the wall, etc. In general our actions, I wanted to get a feel for what the support is either way.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

To be honest, as a navel-gazing American, I haven't given it enough thought. I haven't chosen to inform myself about the issue.

I think that data point should be factored into your feel for what the support is.

 

[cnredd]

To be honest, as a navel-gazing American, I haven't given it enough thought. I haven't chosen to inform myself about the issue.

I think that data point should be factored into your feel for what the support is.

Dammit Simon!...I'm sick of your disgraceful attitude!

Sorry...It's just that THIS is my 500th post and I wanted it to be special

:beer:

 

[teacher]

Just keep building that wall. Guard it well. Don't let any Arabs in. Let them out. They'll never stop. Sooner or latter all inside that wall who wish you harm will be stone cold friggin dead. Protect your children. It doesn't matter what the rest of the world thinks. Their not burying children. But then you know that. Hell kick'em all out. Give them some cash and boot them over the wall. It's the only way. How you guys have so much restraint is beyond me.

 

[robin]

All the fault of zionist extremists ?

I've pasted this from another thread. If it's true then you guys are ones in the wrong maybe... yes... no ?
Time for you to return to pre 67 borders maybe, regardless of the UN rules on land retained from aggresors after wars, becuase it looks like Israel was the aggressor & ethnic cleanser that has caused all these problems to start with 60 years ago if these facts are correct.
It's in two parts due to the limit on characters.

Part one
"History teaches that For 2,000 years there was no such conflict between Jews and Muslims in Palestine The land of Palestine was inhabited by Palestinian Arabs. In 1850 these consisted of approximately 400,000 Muslims, 75,000 Christians, and 25,000 Jews. For centuries these groups had lived in harmony: 80 percent Muslim, 15 percent Christian, 5 percent Jewish.
But then in the late 1800s a group in Europe decided to colonize this land. Known as "Zionists," this group consisted of an extremist minority of the world Jewish population. They wanted to create a Jewish homeland, and at first considered locations in Africa and South America, before finally settling on Palestine for their colony At first this immigration created no problems.

However, as more and more Zionists immigrated to Palestine.... many with the express wish of taking over the land for an exclusively Jewish state ....the indigenous population became increasingly alarmed. Eventually, there was fighting between the two groups, with escalating waves of violence. Finally, in 1947 the United Nations decided to intervene. However, rather than adhering to the democratic principle espoused decades earlier by Woodrow Wilson of "self-determination of peoples," in which the people themselves create their own state and system of government, the UN chose to revert to the medieval strategy whereby an outside power arbitrarily divides up other people’s land Under considerable pressure from high-placed American Zionists, the UN decided to give away 55 percent of Palestine to a Jewish state — despite the fact that this group represented only about 30 percent of the total population, and owned under 7 percent of the land When the inevitable war broke out the outcome was never in doubt, according to U.S. intelligence reports from the time.
The Zionist army consisted of over 90,000 European-trained soldiers and possessed modern weaponry, including up-to-date fighter and bomber airplanes. The Arab forces, very much a third-world army, consisted of approximately 30,000 ill-equipped, poorly trained men By the end of the 1948 war the Jewish state — having now declared itself "Israel" — had conquered 78 percent of Palestine — far more than that proposed even by the very generous UN partition plan. And three-quarters of a million Palestinians had been made refugees. Over 400 towns and villages had been destroyed, and a new map was being drawn up, in which every city, river and hillock would receive a new, Hebrew name. All vestiges of the Palestinian culture were to be erased. In fact, for many decades Israel — and the US, following its lead — denied the very existence of this population. Golda Meir once said, in fact: "There is no such thing as a Palestinian." In 1967, Israel conquered still more land. Following the Six Day War, in which Israeli forces launched a highly successful, Pearl Harbor-like surprise attack on Egypt, Israel occupied the additional 22 percent of Palestine that had eluded it in 1948 — the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. It also occupied parts of Egypt (which since were returned) and Syria (which remain under occupation). You wanna talk about deaths? :

 

[robin]

Part two
122 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 686 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000.

3,645 Palestinians and 1,058 Israelis have been killed since September 29, 2000.

7,307 Israelis and 28,980 Palestinians have been injured since September 29, 2000.

The U.S. gives $15,139,178 per day to the Israeli government and military and $232,290 per day to Palestinian NGO’s.

64 UN Resolutions against Israel:

UN Resolutions Against Israel, 1955-1992
Resolution 106: "...‘condemns’ Israel for Gaza raid"
Resolution 111: "...‘condemns’ Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people"
Resolution 127: "...‘recommends’ Israel suspend its ‘no-man’s zone’ in Jerusalem"
Resolution 162: "...‘urges’ Israel to comply with UN decisions"
Resolution 171: "...determines flagrant violations’ by Israel in its attack on Syria"
Resolution 228: "...‘censures’ Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under Jordanian control"
Resolution 237: "...‘urges’ Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees"
Resolution 248: "...‘condemns’ Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan"
Resolution 250: "...‘calls’ on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem"
Resolution 251: "...‘deeply deplores’ Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250"
Resolution 252: "...‘declares invalid’ Israel’s acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital"
Resolution 256: "...‘condemns’ Israeli raids on Jordan as ‘flagrant violation"
Resolution 259: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation"
Resolution 262: "...‘condemns’ Israel for attack on Beirut airport"
Resolution 265: "...‘condemns’ Israel for air attacks for Salt in Jordan"
Resolution 267: "...‘censures’ Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem"
Resolution 270: "...‘condemns’ Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon"
Resolution 271: "...‘condemns’ Israel’s failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem"
Resolution 279: "...‘demands’ withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon"
Resolution 280: "....‘condemns’ Israeli’s attacks against Lebanon"
Resolution 285: "...‘demands’ immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon"
Resolution 298: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s changing of the status of Jerusalem"
Resolution 313: "...‘demands’ that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon"
Resolution 316: "...‘condemns’ Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon"
Resolution 317: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s refusal to release Arabs abducted in Lebanon"
Resolution 332: "...‘condemns’ Israel’s repeated attacks against Lebanon"
Resolution 337: "...‘condemns’ Israel for violating Lebanon’s sovereignty"
Resolution 347: "...‘condemns’ Israeli attacks on Lebanon"
Resolution 425: "...‘calls’ on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon"
Resolution 427: "...‘calls’ on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon’
Resolution 444: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s lack of cooperation with UN peacekeeping forces"
Resolution 446: "...‘determines’ that Israeli settlements are a ‘serious obstruction’ to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention"
Resolution 450: "...‘calls’ on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon"
Resolution 452: "...‘calls’ on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories"
Resolution 465: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s settlements and asks all member states not to assist Israel’s settlements program"
Resolution 467: "...‘strongly deplores’ Israel’s military intervention in Lebanon"
Resolution 468: "...‘calls’ on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return"
Resolution 469: "...‘strongly deplores’ Israel’s failure to observe the council’s order not to deport Palestinians"
Resolution 471: "...‘expresses deep concern’ at Israel’s failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention"
Resolution 476: "...‘reiterates’ that Israel’s claims to Jerusalem are ‘null and void’
Resolution 478: "...‘censures (Israel) in the strongest terms’ for its claim to Jerusalem in its ‘Basic Law’
Resolution 484: "...‘declares it imperative’ that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors"
Resolution 487: "...‘strongly condemns’ Israel for its attack on Iraq’s nuclear facility"
Resolution 497: "...‘decides’ that Israel’s annexation of Syria’s Golan Heights is ‘null and void’ and demands that Israel rescind its decision forthwith"
Resolution 498: "...‘calls’ on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon"
Resolution 501: "...‘calls’ on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops"
Resolution 509: "...‘demands’ that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon"
Resolution 515: "...‘demands’ that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in"
Resolution 517: "...‘censures’ Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon"
Resolution 518: "...‘demands’ that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon"
Resolution 520: "...‘condemns’ Israel’s attack into West Beirut"
Resolution 573: "...‘condemns’ Israel ‘vigorously’ for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters
Resolution 587: "...‘takes note’ of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw"
Resolution 592: "...‘strongly deplores’ the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops"
Resolution 605: "...‘strongly deplores’ Israel’s policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians
Resolution 607: "...‘calls’ on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention
Resolution 608: "...‘deeply regrets’ that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians"
Resolution 636: "...‘deeply regrets’ Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians
Resolution 641: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s continuing deportation of Palestinians
Resolution 672: "...‘condemns’ Israel for violence against Palestinians at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount
Resolution 673: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s refusal to cooperate with the United Nations
Resolution 681: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s resumption of the deportation of Palestinians
Resolution 694: "...‘deplores’ Israel’s deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return
Resolution 726: "...‘strongly condemns’ Israel’s deportation of Palestinians
Resolution 799: "...‘strongly condemns’ Israel’s deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return. "

 

[nkgupta80]

yeah everyone seems to forget the extremist zionists who wanted the land in the first place. Many zionists used terror against the British. But only the Muslims get a bad rep for being intolerant. Palestinian plight is very much justified, but using terrorism is just plain wrong.

 

[cnredd]

Part one of what really happened...

For many centuries, Palestine was a sparsely populated, poorly cultivated and widely-neglected expanse of eroded hills, sandy deserts and malarial marshes. Mark Twain, who visited Palestine in 1867, described it as: "...[a] desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds-a silent mournful expanse....A desolation is here that not even imagination can grace with the pomp of life and action....We never saw a human being on the whole route....There was hardly a tree or a shrub anywhere. Even the olive and the cactus, those fast friends of the worthless soil, had almost deserted the country."

As late as 1880, the American consul in Jerusalem reported the area was continuing its historic decline. "The population and wealth of Palestine has not increased during the last forty years," he said.

The Report of the Palestine Royal Commission quotes an account of the Maritime Plain in 1913:

The road leading from Gaza to the north was only a summer track suitable for transport by camels and carts...no orange groves, orchards or vineyards were to be seen until one reached [the Jewish village of] Yabna [Yavne]....Houses were all of mud. No windows were anywhere to be seen....The ploughs used were of wood....The yields were very poor....The sanitary conditions in the village were horrible. Schools did not exist....The western part, towards the sea, was almost a desert....The villages in this area were few and thinly populated. Many ruins of villages were scattered over the area, as owing to the prevalence of malaria, many villages were deserted by their inhabitants.


Lewis French, the British Director of Development wrote of Palestine:

We found it inhabited by fellahin who lived in mud hovels and suffered severely from the prevalent malaria....Large areas...were uncultivated....The fellahin, if not themselves cattle thieves, were always ready to harbor these and other criminals. The individual plots...changed hands annually. There was little public security, and the fellahin's lot was an alternation of pillage and blackmail by their neighbors, the Bedouin.


Surprisingly, many people who were not sympathetic to the Zionist cause believed the Jews would improve the condition of Palestinian Arabs. For example, Dawood Barakat, editor of the Egyptian paper Al-Ahram, wrote: "It is absolutely necessary that an entente be made between the Zionists and Arabs, because the war of words can only do evil. The Zionists are necessary for the country: The money which they will bring, their knowledge and intelligence, and the industriousness which characterizes them will contribute without doubt to the regeneration of the country."
Even a leading Arab nationalist believed the return of the Jews to their homeland would help resuscitate the country. According to Sherif Hussein, the guardian of the Islamic Holy Places in Arabia:

The resources of the country are still virgin soil and will be developed by the Jewish immigrants. One of the most amazing things until recent times was that the Palestinian used to leave his country, wandering over the high seas in every direction. His native soil could not retain a hold on him, though his ancestors had lived on it for 1000 years. At the same time we have seen the Jews from foreign countries streaming to Palestine from Russia, Germany, Austria, Spain, America. The cause of causes could not escape those who had a gift of deeper insight. They knew that the country was for its original sons (abna'ihi*l*asliyin), for all their differences, a sacred and beloved homeland. The return of these exiles (jaliya) to their homeland will prove materially and spiritually [to be] an experimental school for their brethren who are with them in the fields, factories, trades and in all things connected with toil and labor.

A Population Boom

As Hussein foresaw, the regeneration of Palestine, and the growth of its population, came only after Jews returned in massive numbers. The Jewish population increased by 470,000 between World War I and World War II while the non-Jewish population rose by 588,000. In fact, the permanent Arab population increased 120 percent between 1922 and 1947.

This rapid growth was a result of several factors. One was immigration from neighboring states — constituting 37 percent of the total immigration to pre-state Israel — by Arabs who wanted to take advantage of the higher standard of living the Jews had made possible. The Arab population also grew because of the improved living conditions created by the Jews as they drained malarial swamps and brought improved sanitation and health care to the region. Thus, for example, the Muslim infant mortality rate fell from 201 per thousand in 1925 to 94 per thousand in 1945 and life expectancy rose from 37 years in 1926 to 49 in 1943.

The Arab population increased the most in cities with large Jewish populations that had created new economic opportunities. From 1922*-1947, the non-Jewish population increased 290 percent in Haifa, 131 percent in Jerusalem and 158 percent in Jaffa. The growth in Arab towns was more modest: 42 percent in Nablus, 78 percent in Jenin and 37 percent in Bethlehem.

 

[cnredd]

part two...the important part that robin conveniently left out....

Jewish Land Purchases

Despite the growth in their population, the Arabs continued to assert they were being displaced. The truth is from the beginning of World War I, part of Palestine's land was owned by absentee landlords who lived in Cairo, Damascus and Beirut. About 80 percent of the Palestinian Arabs were debt-ridden peasants, semi-nomads and Bedouins.

Jews actually went out of their way to avoid purchasing land in areas where Arabs might be displaced. They sought land that was largely uncultivated, swampy, cheap and, most important, without tenants. In 1920, Labor Zionist leader David Ben-Gurion expressed his concern about the Arab fellahin, whom he viewed as "the most important asset of the native population." Ben-Gurion said "under no circumstances must we touch land belonging to fellahs or worked by them." He advocated helping liberate them from their oppressors. "Only if a fellah leaves his place of settlement," Ben-Gurion added, "should we offer to buy his land, at an appropriate price."

It was only after the Jews had bought all of this available land that they began to purchase cultivated land. Many Arabs were willing to sell because of the migration to coastal towns and because they needed money to invest in the citrus industry.

When John Hope Simpson arrived in Palestine in May 1930, he observed: "They [Jews] paid high prices for the land, and in addition they paid to certain of the occupants of those lands a considerable amount of money which they were not legally bound to pay."

In 1931, Lewis French conducted a survey of landlessness and eventually offered new plots to any Arabs who had been "dispossessed." British officials received more than 3,000 applications, of which 80 percent were ruled invalid by the Government's legal adviser because the applicants were not landless Arabs. This left only about 600 landless Arabs, 100 of whom accepted the Government land offer.

In April 1936, a new outbreak of Arab attacks on Jews was instigated by a Syrian guerrilla named Fawzi al*Qawukji, the commander of the Arab Liberation Army. By November, when the British finally sent a new commission headed by Lord Peel to investigate, 89 Jews had been killed and more than 300 wounded.

The Peel Commission's report found that Arab complaints about Jewish land acquisition were baseless. It pointed out that "much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamp and uncultivated when it was purchased....there was at the time of the earlier sales little evidence that the owners possessed either the resources or training needed to develop the land." Moreover, the Commission found the shortage was "due less to the amount of land acquired by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population." The report concluded that the presence of Jews in Palestine, along with the work of the British Administration, had resulted in higher wages, an improved standard of living and ample employment opportunities.

In his memoirs, Transjordan's King Abdullah wrote:

It is made quite clear to all, both by the map drawn up by the Simpson Commission and by another compiled by the Peel Commission, that the Arabs are as prodigal in selling their land as they are in useless wailing and weeping (author's emphasis).


Even at the height of the Arab revolt in 1938, the British High Commissioner to Palestine believed the Arab landowners were complaining about sales to Jews to drive up prices for lands they wished to sell. Many Arab landowners had been so terrorized by Arab rebels they decided to leave Palestine and sell their property to the Jews.

The Jews were paying exorbitant prices to wealthy landowners for small tracts of arid land. "In 1944, Jews paid between $1,000 and $1,100 per acre in Palestine, mostly for arid or semiarid land; in the same year, rich black soil in Iowa was selling for about $110 per acre."

By 1947, Jewish holdings in Palestine amounted to about 463,000 acres. Approximately 45,000 of these acres were acquired from the Mandatory Government; 30,000 were bought from various churches and 387,500 were purchased from Arabs. Analyses of land purchases from 1880 to 1948 show that 73 percent of Jewish plots were purchased from large landowners, not poor fellahin. Those who sold land included the mayors of Gaza, Jerusalem and Jaffa. As'ad el*Shuqeiri, a Muslim religious scholar and father of PLO chairman Ahmed Shuqeiri, took Jewish money for his land. Even King Abdullah leased land to the Jews. In fact, many leaders of the Arab nationalist movement, including members of the Muslim Supreme Council, sold land to Jews.

 

[cnredd]

Part two
122 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 686 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000.

3,645 Palestinians and 1,058 Israelis have been killed since September 29, 2000.

7,307 Israelis and 28,980 Palestinians have been injured since September 29, 2000.

Conveniently forgot to mention WHAT happened on September 29,2000...Ready for this folks?...Ariel Shaoron ENTERED the Al-Aqsa compound...That's it!...

Sharon did not attempt to enter any mosques during his 34 minute visit to the Temple Mount, Judaism’s holiest place, which Muslims have renamed Haram al-Sharif. His visit was conducted during normal hours when the area is open to tourists. Palestinian youths — eventually numbering around 1,500 — shouted slogans in an attempt to inflame the situation. Some 1,500 Israeli police were present at the scene to forestall violence.

There were limited disturbances during Sharon's visit, mostly involving stone throwing. During the remainder of the day, outbreaks of stone throwing continued on the Temple Mount and in the vicinity, leaving 28 Israeli policemen injured, three of whom were hospitalized. There are no accounts of Palestinian injuries on that day. Significant and orchestrated violence was initiated by Palestinians the following day after Friday prayers.

Because of this ONE THING Arafat declared an "intafada"(the Al-Aqsa Intafada", to be specific..."intafada" is Arabic for "uprising") So the attackers lost more people than the attacked. Smart move...Why leave this out, robin??????????????

The U.S. gives $15,139,178 per day to the Israeli government and military and $232,290 per day to Palestinian NGO’s.

To this day...Palestine cannot produce ONE document that explains where the money is going.

64 UN Resolutions against Israel:

And NONE against Palestine...whom had TWO intafadas(The first was in 1987)

That, in itself, tells me more about the UN than it does Isreal...

Robin...seriously...If your gonna tell a story....Tell the whole thing, please.

 

[superskippy]

Part one
"History teaches that For 2,000 years there was no such conflict between Jews and Muslims in Palestine The land of Palestine was inhabited by Palestinian Arabs. In 1850 these consisted of approximately 400,000 Muslims, 75,000 Christians, and 25,000 Jews. For centuries these groups had lived in harmony: 80 percent Muslim, 15 percent Christian, 5 percent Jewish.
But then in the late 1800s a group in Europe decided to colonize this land. Known as "Zionists," this group consisted of an extremist minority of the world Jewish population. They wanted to create a Jewish homeland, and at first considered locations in Africa and South America, before finally settling on Palestine for their colony At first this immigration created no problems.

However, as more and more Zionists immigrated to Palestine.... many with the express wish of taking over the land for an exclusively Jewish state ....the indigenous population became increasingly alarmed. Eventually, there was fighting between the two groups, with escalating waves of violence. Finally, in 1947 the United Nations decided to intervene. However, rather than adhering to the democratic principle espoused decades earlier by Woodrow Wilson of "self-determination of peoples," in which the people themselves create their own state and system of government, the UN chose to revert to the medieval strategy whereby an outside power arbitrarily divides up other people’s land Under considerable pressure from high-placed American Zionists, the UN decided to give away 55 percent of Palestine to a Jewish state — despite the fact that this group represented only about 30 percent of the total population, and owned under 7 percent of the land When the inevitable war broke out the outcome was never in doubt, according to U.S. intelligence reports from the time.

For one thing of that 55%, 30% of it was the Negev desert a barren wasteland, the rest was areas where our population overwhelmed the Arab populations such as Tel'Aviv and Haifa and the land surrounding it extending to the Arab controlled Galilee. The Arabs got the better deal, they got all the west bank and more, the had the land around Jerusalem, they had Gaza and the land extending east of it, they had the Galilee and the Sea of Galilee, very fertile land with control of the Jordan river. The Arabs got the better deal.




The Zionist army consisted of over 90,000 European-trained soldiers and possessed modern weaponry, including up-to-date fighter and bomber airplanes. The Arab forces, very much a third-world army, consisted of approximately 30,000 ill-equipped, poorly trained men By the end of the 1948 war the Jewish state — having now declared itself "Israel" — had conquered 78 percent of Palestine — far more than that proposed even by the very generous UN partition plan. And three-quarters of a million Palestinians had been made refugees. Over 400 towns and villages had been destroyed, and a new map was being drawn up, in which every city, river and hillock would receive a new, Hebrew name. All vestiges of the Palestinian culture were to be erased. In fact, for many decades Israel — and the US, following its lead — denied the very existence of this population. Golda Meir once said, in fact: "There is no such thing as a Palestinian." In 1967, Israel conquered still more land. Following the Six Day War, in which Israeli forces launched a highly successful, Pearl Harbor-like surprise attack on Egypt, Israel occupied the additional 22 percent of Palestine that had eluded it in 1948 — the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. It also occupied parts of Egypt (which since were returned) and Syria (which remain under occupation). You wanna talk about deaths? :

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You honestly think that was our army! :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl We had a total of 400 full time members of the Haganah when the war broke out! None of which had any European training! We learned over time to excel at the covert irregular warfare that we and the Arabs had waged. 70,000? Your nut's we had a total of 40,000 people in our "army" which was a mix of Irgun, Lechi, Haganah, Zahal (After the 4 week truce), Stern Group, and Palmach. We had a total of 2 heavy artillery pieces, 3 British planes with 2 pilots, no tank's our only Armour was home made armored cars which were basically trucks with steel plates welded on. We had a mix of WW1 era rifles and WW2 era rifles, around 600 automatic weapons with limited ammunition for them, we had enough rounds for our rifles but that was it, we had 100 mortars, and maybe 20 machine guns. We had to buy old guns and ammunition from the Czechs, cargo planes from the US, and more weapons from Greece and Czechoslovakia. Our army was pitiful to say the least. We had no training in real warfare and had to learn from experience. The Arabs had planes, artillery, tanks, Armour, AMMUNITION, and they brought to the field a 20,000 man advantage. The Arab armies were British equipped, British trained, and Jordan had an alliance with England who basically gave birth to the Arab legion, a crack force with numerous tanks, Armour, and most of all well trained men.

Don't bring me this crap about the Arab's inferiority to our troops, we managed to hold the day during the first half of the war, and during the Truce the Arab's bickered over land and support for the war from various allies. We spent our time reorganizing our army into the Zahal, got guns, Armour, artillery, planes, and ammunition. During the 2nd half we fought back and smashed the Arab forces everywhere save Latrun.


The Arab's provoked war in 1967, Nasser FORCED the removal of the UN peacekeeping army, funny thing isn't it? The UN up and left leaving bunkers and defenses in place without even going to the GENERAL ASSEMBLY. They left at Nasser's behest and he moved in a quarter of a million men into the Sinai and then onto our borders. He started moving planes and tanks onto the border. Syrian raids intensified and culminated on the attack on a string of Kibbutz, and a jet strike into Israel. With Egypt massing on our borders we struck and drove their army into the Suez, and in the process we gained land to use as a security zone and buffer between us and them. Guess what, the Egyptians did not raise a finger against us until we withdrew, then the attacked us in 1973. Jordan invaded us forcing us to counter attack and seize the West Bank, the Jordanians never struck us again.

122 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 686 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000.

3,645 Palestinians and 1,058 Israelis have been killed since September 29, 2000.

7,307 Israelis and 28,980 Palestinians have been injured since September 29, 2000.''

How quaint you would leave out how many combatants we have killed 1,238, and how many the Palestinians have killed 126, how many civilians have the Palestinians killed? 1,178, our civilian toll is hard to mark because they don't fight in uniforms, they look like civilians save for the fact they have guns or hidden bombs. Most likely a good 40% of the civilian dead from our side are actually combatants, from my experience at a raid into Khan Yunious, there were multitudes of rioters and no uniformed people yet we were hit by rockets and bullets, we tried to find people who were firing and when we thought we had a target we fired, taking this into account when tallying up civilian dead is that many people marked dead as civilians are most likely combatants. Also it shows that most of the civilian dead are not intentional. The Children in Palestine play more of a role of soldier than you think want some pictures? These are the Kid's we face.

http://www.israel-wat.com/show6.jpg
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Also the UN can quite frankly shove it, ever since partition it has been a political weapon against Israel, what did the UN do when Egypt evicted the security force? Nothing. What did it do when the Arabs invaded Israel? Nothing. What did it do when the Arab raids into Israel intensified? Nothing. What does it do when we counter attack? Condemn. What does it do when we fight back? Condemn. What does it do when we start winning and after the Arab invasions? Condemn. The UN resolutions are a roll of crap we use them for toilet paper, but even as that it is not that good to be honest.

Some great quotes from Arab leaders on the day's preceding the 6 day war.

 

[superskippy]

An enthusiastic echo was heard May 20 from Syrian Defense Minister Hafez Assad:

Our forces are now entirely ready not only to repulse the aggression, but to initiate the act of liberation itself, and to explode the Zionist presence in the Arab homeland. The Syrian army, with its finger on the trigger, is united....I, as a military man, believe that the time has come to enter into a battle of annihilation.

And what of Nasser? "Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight," he said on May 27. The following day, he added: "We will not accept any...coexistence with Israel...Today the issue is not the establishment of peace between the Arab states and Israel....The war with Israel is in effect since 1948."

Nasser then announced:

The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are poised on the borders of Israel...to face the challenge, while standing behind us are the armies of Iraq, Algeria, Kuwait, Sudan and the whole Arab nation. This act will astound the world. Today they will know that the Arabs are arranged for battle, the critical hour has arrived. We have reached the stage of serious action and not declarations.[/I]

I can get Arab News Reel's if you want?

 

[robin]

Blimey.. looks like my post is utter nonsense. The Arabs are to blame for everything then. Oh well live & learn.

 

[superskippy]

Are you serous... I got a concession out of you... Unless your being sarcastic or your impersonating Robin....

I'm scared. :lol:

 

[robin]

I like the logic.
If something's old or not in very good shape, then just take it !
Heck my neighbour needs to cut their lawn.
So I'll just take take their back garden off them, after I've ethnically cleansed them from it !

 

[cnredd]

I like the logic.
If something's old or not in very good shape, then just take it !
Heck my neighbour needs to cut their lawn.
So I'll just take take their back garden off them, after I've ethnically cleansed them from it !

Apparently you missed the parts about payments....
You may now start to accuse the Capitalistic Arabs that let this happen.

 

[robin]

How much was actually paid for & how much was simply taken ?

 

[cnredd]

How much was actually paid for & how much was simply taken ?

I don't know...When I read your posts, they weren't even mentioned!

Why would you care NOW since you didn't find it necessary to include it in your original posts?

Heck, why debate you at all?...You've already shown your one-sidedness.
Nomatter what I answer, you'll just bend it to what you feel anyway.

 

[robin]

UN wrong on all 64 resolutions ?
Whether or not the original post commented only on Israeli missdemenours & therefore gives you a 'it's biased' get out clause, the facts remain. Zionist extremists are just as biffer shits as Muslim or Arab ones are.
Only difference is, you started the trouble out there.

 

[cnredd]

UN wrong on all 64 resolutions ?
Whether or not the original post commented only on Israeli missdemenours & therefore gives you a 'it's biased' get out clause, the facts remain. Zionist extremists are just as biffer shits as Muslim or Arab ones are.Only difference is, you started the trouble out there.

NOW you get the point...Only AFTER you shown the UN condemnations as 64-to-zero.

Now answer this... If Muslims or Arabs are "biffer shits", also, as your above statement has now claimed...Then why aren't THEY condemned through the UN as well?

 

[cnredd]

Sometimes people don't want facts to get in the way of a good argument, right superduperskippy?:notlook:

 

[robin]

Since the zionist extremists were as bigger shits as the Arab extremists I guess they had the resolutions since they were pinching someone else's land.
I mean you can't tell me they paid for all the land. Even if where they did, it seems a bit harsh to just kick the tenants off.
Anyway I think Israel has the right to exist. It just that it seems to have been very much at the expense of others.
Though wouldn't it have been easier if they'd just integrated wherever they were in the world. Like if you are Russian then just be a 'Russian' rather than 'Russian Jew'.
I mean I am one eighth a German jew... a Bellum. It means nothing to me. We are all homo sapiens for Christ's sake. Let's cut out the tribalistic crap !

 

[Surenderer]

NOW you get the point...Only AFTER you shown the UN condemnations as 64-to-zero.

Now answer this... If Muslims or Arabs are "biffer shits", also, as your above statement has now claimed...Then why aren't THEY condemned through the UN as well?

I'm curious....why is it that you guys think that the U.N. is against Israel and for Arabs/Muslims? Now even though I am Muslim I am not as quick to condemn Israel for anything....especially human rights...... because Palestinians dont wear uniforms so how could Israel know the difference between a soldier and a civilian? But when you have the U.S. vetoing resolutions to bring in Peace monitors (and the only country to veto too) you cant really say that the U.N. isnt trying to help solve the problems.....As I have said before the problems will never be solved if left up to Israel and Palestine to solve it themselves....only the other Arab leaders in the region can help the Palestinians



peace

 

[cnredd]

I'm curious....why is it that you guys think that the U.N. is against Israel and for Arabs/Muslims? Now even though I am Muslim I am not as quick to condemn Israel for anything....especially human rights...... because Palestinians dont wear uniforms so how could Israel know the difference between a soldier and a civilian? But when you have the U.S. vetoing resolutions to bring in Peace monitors (and the only country to veto too) you cant really say that the U.N. isnt trying to help solve the problems.....As I have said before the problems will never be solved if left up to Israel and Palestine to solve it themselves....only the other Arab leaders in the region can help the Palestinians

peace

The Palestinians only need help from themselves...Look at the pictures superskippy put up of the kids learning to shoot guns....

END....OF....STORY...Nothing else matters until that stops

 

[Surenderer]

The Palestinians only need help from themselves...Look at the pictures superskippy put up of the kids learning to shoot guns....

END....OF....STORY...Nothing else matters until that stops

I really dont need to see the pictures.....I'm sure what they will show I could also post picture for "shock value".....and you are wrong the Palestinians cant help themselves....if indeed there is an Ummah(muslim community) then it is their job to help Muslims' in less fortunate situations.....the Arab leaders in the M.E. are all talk and no action when it comes to Palestine. I dont mean action by War against Israel but I mean going into Palestine and building schools or bridges or helping with irrigation systems etc....anything but sitting on their hands


peace