Israel Or Palestine, Who Do You Support

[Thano]

Gardener you must be Jewish:rofl

 

[Gardener]

Not knowing about your conspiracy theories doesn't make me ignorant or disengenuous.

You switch from Palestinians to Hamas.

It isn't a conspiracy that the Palestinians have just voted in Hamas. It is also no conspiracy that the Muslim Brotherhood was closely alligned with Nazis before www2 and has continued with the same virulently antisemitic themes. Now, I keep giving you an out by considering the fact that you may be ignorant, but you are showing quite clearly that you support this by design.

As far as politeness is concerned, your support for genocidal antisemites does not deserve the politeness I am showing you right now. You have a lot of nerve crying about politeness when you support the same political philosophies that led to your own country's near extermination of an entire people.

You have learned nothing from the terrible legacy of your own country. Shame on you.

 

[earthworm]

Gardener you must be Jewish:rofl

Does a man need to be Jewish to have a sense of decency ?

 

[Gardener]

Gardener you must be Jewish:rofl

No, I am an agnostic of Irish/English/French desent.

I am a human, however, so support the victims of persecution at the hands of the subhumans who persecute them.

 

[Gardener]

Does a man need to be Jewish to have a sense of decency ?

Thankyou, Earthworm.

 

[JOHNYJ]

Palestinians have a terible image in America .America may not be liked by Arabs in the Middle east,but. Palestinians are disliked by many Americans.There using their children to murder people including other children.
Does not go over well in America.

 

[zymurgy]

I think the US strongly supports Israel because it makes STRATEGIC sense for us to do so.

no it doesn't.

It makes strategic sense to be neutral in the affairs of others and to trade peacefully with all parties.

 

[talloulou]

no it doesn't.

It makes strategic sense to be neutral in the affairs of others and to trade peacefully with all parties.

As the world becomes more global it becomes smaller and neutrality sort of goes out the window. With globalization what one nation does or does not do has great impact globally. To ignore that is sticking your head in the sand.

 

[zymurgy]

As the world becomes more global it becomes smaller and neutrality sort of goes out the window. With globalization what one nation does or does not do has great impact globally. To ignore that is sticking your head in the sand.

Funny analogy.

What do we lose by ticking off Israel?

It must be super important though if it is in our strategic interest to not do so. so what is it?

 

[talloulou]

Funny analogy.

What do we lose by ticking off Israel?

It must be super important though if it is in our strategic interest to not do so. so what is it?

"Strategic Reasons for Continuing U.S. Support

There is a broad bipartisan consensus among policymakers that Israel has advanced U.S. interest in the Middle East and beyond.

* Israel has successfully prevented victories by radical nationalist movements in Lebanon and Jordan, as well as in Palestine.
* Israel has kept Syria, for many years an ally of the Soviet Union, in check.
* Israel's air force is predominant throughout the region.
* Israel's frequent wars have provided battlefield testing for American arms, often against Soviet weapons.
* It has served as a conduit for U.S. arms to regimes and movements too unpopular in the United States for openly granting direct military assistance, such as apartheid South Africa, the Islamic Republic in Iran, the military junta in Guatemala, and the Nicaraguan Contras. Israeli military advisers have assisted the Contras, the Salvadoran junta, and foreign occupation forces in Namibia and Western Sahara.
* Israel's intelligence service has assisted the U.S. in intelligence gathering and covert operations.
* Israel has missiles capable of reaching as far as the former Soviet Union, it possesses a nuclear arsenal of hundreds of weapons, and it has cooperated with the U.S. military-industrial complex with research and development for new jet fighters and anti-missile defense systems."

http://www.irc-online.org/fpif/papers/usisrael.html

You may not agree with the reasons but the fact of the matter is that we do not send tons of money to Israel for nothing.

 

[alphieb]

I do not trust Palestine as far as I can throw them. Who do you think they would support first, Iran or Israel?

 

[zymurgy]

"Strategic Reasons for Continuing U.S. Support

There is a broad bipartisan consensus among policymakers that Israel has advanced U.S. interest in the Middle East and beyond.

* Israel has successfully prevented victories by radical nationalist movements in Lebanon and Jordan, as well as in Palestine.
* Israel has kept Syria, for many years an ally of the Soviet Union, in check.
* Israel's air force is predominant throughout the region.
* Israel's frequent wars have provided battlefield testing for American arms, often against Soviet weapons.
* It has served as a conduit for U.S. arms to regimes and movements too unpopular in the United States for openly granting direct military assistance, such as apartheid South Africa, the Islamic Republic in Iran, the military junta in Guatemala, and the Nicaraguan Contras. Israeli military advisers have assisted the Contras, the Salvadoran junta, and foreign occupation forces in Namibia and Western Sahara.
* Israel's intelligence service has assisted the U.S. in intelligence gathering and covert operations.
* Israel has missiles capable of reaching as far as the former Soviet Union, it possesses a nuclear arsenal of hundreds of weapons, and it has cooperated with the U.S. military-industrial complex with research and development for new jet fighters and anti-missile defense systems."

http://www.irc-online.org/fpif/papers/usisrael.html

Ridiculous.

1) Russia isn't a superpower. We don't need Israel's missile capabilities (which we funded in the first place).

2) Palestine just voted in a radical movement. This article, although wishful thinking, is seriously dated.

3) Israel's "frequent wars" is not in our interests financially or morally.

Got anything else?

 

[talloulou]

Ridiculous.

1) Russia isn't a superpower. We don't need Israel's missile capabilities (which we funded in the first place).

2) Palestine just voted in a radical movement. This article, although wishful thinking, is seriously dated.

3) Israel's "frequent wars" is not in our interests financially or morally.

Got anything else?

Well why do you think we spend so much money in support of Israel if it's not STATEGIC? Do we do it because they are just are bestest best friend? Do you really believe that supporting Israel does not help support US influence across the globe? Particularly in the Middle East?

 

[zymurgy]

Well why do you think we spend so much money in support of Israel if it's not STATEGIC? Do we do it because they are just are bestest best friend?

There are many reasons. Many Christians feel Israel's continued occupation is a requirement. Also don't discount the inability of goverments to own up to mistakes made. American's are also very compassionate people. Some decisions, like this one, is made for reasons other then strategic.

Supporting Israel doesn't help us in any tangible ways. We would be better off financialy and militarily buy supporting Israle's enemies.

 

[talloulou]

We would be better off financialy and militarily buy supporting Israle's enemies.

Really! How do you figure? I'll play devils advocate for a minute and go along with you. Let's say the US decided Israel is more trouble than it's worth and we are going to stop supporting them? What would happen? How would we be better off? Furthermore what would happen if we supported Israel's enemies, most of which are our enemies? How would we be better off?

 

[zymurgy]

Really! How do you figure?

For the same reason you failed to provie any tangible benefits to support them.

We don't need them to import our goods. We don't export much to them. We give away billions of dollars yearly to keep them from being obliviated. There is absolutely nothing strategic in this.

It is about compassion, possibly religion, and status quo.

 

[talloulou]

For the same reason you failed to provie any tangible benefits to support them.

We don't need them to import our goods. We don't export much to them. We give away billions of dollars yearly to keep them from being obliviated. There is absolutely nothing strategic in this.

It is about compassion, possibly religion, and status quo.

Yes but what would happen in the middle east if we stopped supporting Israel? How would that change the middle east and what would the global ramifications be? Surely you can't think there would be no consequences! How would we benefit from the consequences?

 

[talloulou]

It is about compassion, possibly religion, and status quo.

I think it's probably true that people in the US have more compassion for Israel than they do for Palestine. After all Israel is more democratic.

For me personally religion has nothing to do with it.

Status quo I'll give you. Israel and the United States have been stategic allies throughout Israel's history. Why throw that away? Why consider that inconsequential?

 

[zymurgy]

Yes but what would happen in the middle east if we stopped supporting Israel? How would that change the middle east and what would the global ramifications be? Surely you can't think there would be no consequences! How would we benefit from the consequences?

Of course their would be consequences. Israel could very well cease to exist.

We would certainly have a more civil relationship with the other countries in that region. These are the countries that we actually do rely on for imports.

Supporting Israel's right to exist is fine but don't claim it is in our STRATEGIC interests to do so when they don't do a thing for us. It simply isn't a mutually beneficial relationship (unless you bring relgion into the equation).

 

[talloulou]

Of course their would be consequences. Israel could very well cease to exist.

To me that's a big deal as I see Israel being the only thing that resembles democracy in an area of complete and total chaos.

We would certainly have a more civil relationship with the other countries in that region. These are the countries that we actually do rely on for imports.

Really? You can't honestly believe that? It would appear to me that Islamic terror reaches much further than Israel. I doubt that Islamic nations would just settle down, be content, and peaceful after they have destroyed Israel.

Supporting Israel's right to exist is fine but don't claim it is in our STRATEGIC interests to do so when they don't do a thing for us.

Actually I read just the other day that Israel provided Aid for Katrina. Did palestine?

It simply isn't a mutually beneficial relationship (unless you bring relgion into the equation).

I will agree to disagree and I have no need for religion.

 

[zymurgy]

To me that's a big deal as I see Israel being the only thing that resembles democracy in an area of complete and total chaos.

This is a little far fetched. What about Turkey?

Really? You can't honestly believe that? It would appear to me that Islamic terror reaches much further than Israel. I doubt that Islamic nations would just settle down, be content, and peaceful after they have destroyed Israel.

First, realize that this country did have a long history of decent relations with the Middle East and that mutual respect has evaporated over the last 40 years.

We obviously have a different outlook on people in general. I tend to think people are generally good hearted and it takes special events or circumstances to blacken the heart of an entire nation/region.

Actually I read just the other day that Israel provided Aid for Katrina. Did palestine?

We received more from the very same country behind our port aquisition.

 

[talloulou]

This is a little far fetched. What about Turkey?

Okay so there is two....but of the two I'd consider Israel to be more cooperative.

First, realize that this country did have a long history of decent relations with the Middle East and that mutual respect has evaporated over the last 40 years.

With globalization the world has gotten smaller in the past 50 years in my opinion.

We obviously have a different outlook on people in general. I tend to think people are generally good hearted and it takes special events or circumstances to blacken the heart of an entire nation/region.

I don't see how that's a different outlook from mine. You're the one who seems to think the destruction of Israel is inconsequential.

We received more from the very same country behind our port aquisition.

I never argued that we should have no relations with the Arab world. I'm not sure where I stand on the whole port deal....there seem to be many pros and cons and I'm just not in position of enough facts to make an informed decision. Plus since the media has chosen to use this topic as a political parade I doubt I will have enough facts to make a decision anytime soon.

 

[zymurgy]

I don't see how that's a different outlook from mine. You're the one who seems to think the destruction of Israel is inconsequential.

Inconsequential to the strength and well being of our nation to be exact.

 

[talloulou]

Inconsequential to the strength and well being of our nation to be exact.

Well we're a democracy so if one day the MAJORITY of the US decides Israel serves no purpose perhaps you may get your wish and we will stop supporting Israel....

I doubt that will ever happen....but it could. And you do support democracy don't you?

Luckily for now the majority of people in the US are not ready to throw Israel to the wolves so while that makes you unhappy it makes the majority happy:mrgreen:

 

[zymurgy]

Well we're a democracy so if one day the MAJORITY of the US decides Israel serves no purpose perhaps you may get your wish and we will stop supporting Israel....

I doubt that will ever happen....but it could. And you do support democracy don't you?

Luckily for now the majority of people in the US are not ready to through Israel to the wolves so while that makes you unhappy it makes the majority happy:mrgreen:

not really. In a democracy, 51% of you can vote to take my kidney from me. I don't support that. I do support a representative form of goverment however.