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Israel Isolated as UN Security Council Demands Immediate Ceasefire in Gaza

TU Curmudgeon said:
Resolutions of the UN General Assembly are not binding. The Resolution you are referring to was a resolution of the UN General Assembly.

Resolutions of the UN Security Council are binding. Russia has a veto on the UN Security Council. Are you honestly asking people to believe that Russia either voted for, or abstained, in the vote on a UN Security Council resolution that called upon Russia to leave Ukraine?

The US government (effectively) dictated (read as "Do it the way we say to do it or we won't join.") the structure and power of the UN at both the General Assembly and the Security Council levels. The US government (effectively) dictated (read as "Do it the way we say to do it or we won't join.") the financing structure of the UN.

What is NOT going to happen is the passage of any UN Security Council resolution authorizing any and all countries to come to the aid of the Palestinians in repelling an invasion and in restoring civil order.

Why is that NOT going to happen? Because the US government will veto it. If the US government does not - directly - veto it, then it will abstain and have its proxy veto cast by either France or the UK (since any disruption of their trade with the US would wreak great disruption on their economies and the US government would be very sure to make it clear to them that any vote either in favor or in abstention on the resolution would have "serious consequences" which might well "alter the tradition trading patterns" between them and the US.
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After reading that any doubt I had that the UN is useless went away.
 
Zyphlin said:
The most dangerous regimes in the world are the ones with cunning. Putin is a perfect example of this, and the puppet masters in Iran is another one. Those with cunning create “heads I win / tails I lose” situations.

October 7th was a disgusting and abysmal master stroke by an evil regime. Given the severe death toll and the abject depravity against a solely civilian target and objective, not to mention the hostages (don’t get me started about Hamas’s continued issue giving accurate count of a few hundred / dozens of hostages over months, but able to get death totals to the last child 5 seconds after an attack), there was no reasonable nor rationale way for Israel not to retaliate massively nor for them to be able to stomach Hamas being in control and entrenched on their door step. To refrain from dealing with those two things would not only be a travesty no other country would stomach, but one I don’t believe the Israeli people would stand for. AND YET, given the propaganda talents of those directly or ideologically aligned with Hamas and the general view point of much of the world as it relates to Israel, and given the US public’s inability to truly stand by any sort of large scale or long term conflict in a strong and positive way, and given the realities of how a war against Hamas would need to be enacted, it was almost a guarantee that if Israel did what the first option required that they would damage their relationship with the world and potentially the US. Especially with a democrat president in an election year that appears to be a close race.

Either Israel has a devastating and disgusting attack on it but doesn’t respond in the rational and reasonable fashion that any normal country would react, thus angering its population, emboldening future attacks, and leaving a barbaric enemy on its borders.

OR

Israel retaliates and does the actions needed to end Hamas as a legitimate power in Gaza and craters their already tenuous standing on the world stage and drive a severe wedge into the alliance with their strongest and most important ally

Heads Hamas wins. Tails Israel loses.

Horrible, evil, genius cunning and strategy.
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I wonder why the Israeli government doesn't simply "recognize" Palestine as an independent and sovereign state.

"WHAT???"; you ask.

Yep, recognize Palestine as an independent and sovereign state and then give the government of that independent and sovereign state (read as "give Hamas") 48 hours to return all of the Israelis kidnapped by that government AND to make reasonable offers of reparations or "suffer the consequences for what the government of Israel has no option but to conclude is an act of war committed by Palestine against the state of Israel". Then when -Hanas- the government of Palestine does NOT free the Israeli citizens it is holding captive, send in the whole of the Israeli military and conquer Palestine once and for all (as it permitted by the normal and customary usages of international law). No more "Palestine", no more problem. Oh yes, and because they are nice guys, the government of Israel will provide free transportation to the borders of any neighboring country for any (former) Palestinian that is dissatisfied (in the opinion of the government of Israel) with the change in management. No more "Palestinians", no more porblem.
 
GOP Hippo said:
After reading that any doubt I had that the UN is useless went away.
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The UN was originally very useful as it allowed the government of the United States of America a great deal of power over the governments of the rest of the world.

Unfortunately those other governments were very sneaky and developed their own economies so that they were less and less dependent on the largess from the US government.

That nefarious trend continued until the world reached the stage where it is today, and that is "The economy of the United States of America is very convenient to have because it makes the economic life or our country simpler - BUT it is not absolutely essential to the economic life of our country even though we know that we would have to go through a rather severe period of readjustment if it were to go away and stop bothering us.".
 
Fester said:
Kick the UN out of the US, let them move to France. We shouldn't have anything to do with these idiots.
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Indeed, the only realistic and adult solution for the US is to take its bat and ball and go home in a snit because the other kids don't want it to be captain of the team any more.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
Not good enough for some. For them the resolution should have read

"Demands an immediate and unconditional release of all hostages, an immediate and unconditional delivery to the courts of Israel of any and all persons even remotely associated with the taking of all hostages, demands an immediate and unconditional cease fire on the part of "Hamas" and, upon the verified completion of all three of the foregoing politely suggests to the government of Israel, that possibly it isn't necessary to shoot ALL the prisoners it takes within one hour of taking them."​

in order to prove that the UN isn't a bunch of antisemitic Nazi Communists dedicated to the total eradication of the Jewish race in violation of the laws of God.
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The only thing more boring than you sharing your opinions, is reading your fan fiction. Please just stop.
 
btthegreat said:
Its long overdue. We have been isolating ourselves by using our veto to protect a country that simply does not care what the world believes, from what the world beleives.y That veto should only be used when our vital interests demand it, not when some other country might wish it. Up next, somehow finding the votes in Congress to stall or stop any military aid package to Israel so that Biden does not have to sign one. I don't how we can stop a israeli aid package, but I sure would like to.
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It will be a great day when, after this nation is attacked, the UN demands that we stop defending ourselves and allow the terrorists to take over...and half the ****ing country cheers the decision.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
I really do have to admire the shining clarity of your thoughts. What happens in the situation where "A" announces that it has released all of the hostages that it had held and "B" says that it doesn't believe "A" because there are still _[fill in the blank]_ people unaccounted for and that means that "A" is still holding them hostage"? Exactly how do you propose to prove hat "A" has, in fact, released all of the hostages that it had held (short of an intensive search of every square inch of all of the territory that "A" controlled - including destructive testing of all building to ensure that there are no secret hiding places and digging up every square foot of ground to a depth of at least six feet to ensure that there are no hidden tunnels and such)?
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Well, it may be that Hamas releases only some fraction of the remaining hostages and then claims that the others are all unaccounted for. Israel could not trust such a claim. My hope is that Hamas has kept enough of the remaining hostages alive to be able to return nearly all of those who are unaccounted for.

It must be the first demand in any path toward a serious resolution of the immediate conflict. No nation can expect Israel to accept a ceasefire without the full release of all surviving hostages. That’s true independent of our difficulty verifying whether they’ve all been returned.
 
btthegreat said:
Its long overdue. We have been isolating ourselves by using our veto to protect a country that simply does not care what the world believes, from what the world beleives.y That veto should only be used when our vital interests demand it, not when some other country might wish it. Up next, somehow finding the votes in Congress to stall or stop any military aid package to Israel so that Biden does not have to sign one. I don't how we can stop a israeli aid package, but I sure would like to.
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[above emphasis added by bubba]

make disbursement of the israeli military aid package contingent upon ukraine first prevailing in its war with russia
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
The UN is as impotent as the US government requires it to be. If the situation were otherwise, the US government would not be a member of the UN.
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So, the UN cannot do anything without the U.S.? Maybe Canada can provide the $18.1 billion (U.S.) that we gave that corrupt organization.
 
Absentglare said:
There is an element of ridiculousness in demanding a ceasefire of Israel while Hamas still holds innocent Israeli civilians hostage.

The hostages must be released. Then, Israel would be in a position to permit a ceasefire and an influx of sorely needed humanitarian aid.
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I agree with this statement. If there is to be a ceasefire, the hostages must be released. While Hamas terrorists are holding hostages, such an action is not appropriate.
Absentglare said:
Hamas should not be in charge of Gaza. But neither should Ali Khamenei be in charge of Iran, nor Vladimir Putin be in charge of Russia. The people of Gaza deserve a measure of self-determination, and Israel, too, deserves a better leader than Netanyahu.
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I agree with this as well. Khamenei is very much like Hitler and needs to be deposed. The same for Putin.

Israel would do better with a less hardline leader.

The Palestinians have proven repeatedly they are incapable of governing themselves. The people there voted for a terrorist group, which then attacked Israel and caused a war. If there is to be a lasting peace, Palestine has to correct a list of issues, not the least of which is the use of terrorist rhetoric in schools.

It's just a mess.
 
Surrealistik said:
The latest and among the biggest in a series of huge blows to Israeli soft power that will keep coming so long as Israel insists on prosecuting its brutal, inhumane and likely genocidal invasion of Gaza as it presently does; the US abstention is historical, significant and above all, deserved.

Should Israel disregard it as it has thus far utterly ignored the ICJ's provisional orders to avoid genocide, it will be taking another big step towards being a pariah state.
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What an exaggeration. You’re entitled to your opinion but try to be rational please. Are you an anti semite or just pro Muslim?
 
Crunchtime said:
What an exaggeration. You’re entitled to your opinion but try to be rational please. Are you an anti semite or just pro Muslim?
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Can you quote anything in his post that you think is antiSemitic or "pro Muslim"?????
 
snakestretcher said:
Israel is quite free to rescind her membership of an organisation she clearly despises, and wouldn't be missed for a second. Lest we forget, Israel has routinely violated every tenet of international law, the Geneva conventions and the laws of occupation since having been admitted as a UN member state, yet is the first to go whining to the UN when it suits. Those same laws and conventions she agreed to abide by as a condition of membership. Join a club, abide by its rules or leave. Simple.

www.newarab.com

Israel complains to UN over Hezbollah buildup along border

Israel has submitted a complaint against Lebanon to the UN over Hezbollah.
www.newarab.com www.newarab.com
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Laws of occupation? How so?
 
NolanVoyd said:
Can you quote anything in his post that you think is antiSemitic or "pro Muslim"?????
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I asked the question because of the inaccuracy of his statement. What motivated his exaggeration. Usually there’s a reason.

“Israel insists on prosecuting its brutal, inhumane and likely genocidal invasion of Gaza”
 
Crunchtime said:
What an exaggeration. You’re entitled to your opinion but try to be rational please. Are you an anti semite or just pro Muslim?
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Pro-fact, anti-disinformation.

I don't think it can be at all reasonably argued that Israel hasn't suffered huge blows to its soft power due to the way it is conducting this invasion, and that the UN's ceasefire demand, complete with a US abstention, represents the latest in that.

Moreover the brutality of Israel's invasion of Gaza is evident in very basic and glaringly obvious ways, from throttling humanitarian supply (and blockading it entirely for weeks earlier) in defiance of international law, to defying the ICJ's provisional orders and using dumbfire bombs on dense apartment blocks while featuring one of the worst civilian to militant kill ratios in modern history; all routinely observed by aid organizations and media outlets the world over. I refrain from calling it genocidal on the spot because the ICJ will be making that determination shortly.
 
Crunchtime said:
I asked the question because of the inaccuracy of his statement. What motivated his exaggeration. Usually there’s a reason.

“Israel insists on prosecuting its brutal, inhumane and likely genocidal invasion of Gaza”
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What is anti Semitic about the sentence you quoted.

Please explain.
 
Surrealistik said:
Pro-fact, anti-disinformation.

I don't think it can be at all reasonably argued that Israel hasn't suffered huge blows to its soft power due to the way it is conducting this invasion, and that the UN's ceasefire demand, complete with a US abstention, represents the latest in that.

Moreover the brutality of Israel's invasion of Gaza is evident in very basic and glaringly obvious ways, from throttling humanitarian supply in defiance of international law, to defying the ICJ's provisional orders and using dumbfire bombs on dense apartment blocks while featuring one of the worst civilian to militant kill ratios in modern history; all routinely observed by aid organizations and media outlets the world over. I refrain from calling it genocidal on the spot because the ICJ will be making that determination shortly.
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From the beginning Israel used the term “war”. The war between Israel and Hamas. Initially that term stood uncontested but now because war is brutal some folks are uncomfortable with its effects in Gaza. Gazans almost unanimously continue to support Hamas therefore are the enemies of Israel. If Hamas cared about Gazans they would release the hostages. Israel has every right to get them back.
 
NolanVoyd said:
What is anti Semitic about the sentence you quoted.

Please explain.
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Ask the person that wrote it. I simply asked the question.
 
TU Curmudgeon said:
Indeed, the only realistic and adult solution for the US is to take its bat and ball and go home in a snit because the other kids don't want it to be captain of the team any more.
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Or because the others can't afford the bat, ball, bases, and gloves ...

And even if they did have them, they wouldn't know how to use them.
 
btthegreat said:
Its long overdue. We have been isolating ourselves by using our veto to protect a country that simply does not care what the world believes, from what the world beleives.y That veto should only be used when our vital interests demand it, not when some other country might wish it. Up next, somehow finding the votes in Congress to stall or stop any military aid package to Israel so that Biden does not have to sign one. I don't how we can stop a israeli aid package, but I sure would like to.
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Crunchtime said:
From the beginning Israel used the term “war”. The war between Israel and Hamas. Initially that term stood uncontested but now because war is brutal some folks are uncomfortable with its effects in Gaza. Gazans almost unanimously continue to support Hamas therefore are the enemies of Israel. If Hamas cared about Gazans they would release the hostages. Israel has every right to get them back.
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You can call it a war if you like; I'm not particularly interested or invested in the semantics here, though I will say that Israel has no 'right' to visit this level of indiscriminate devastation and collateral upon civilians which has cost it even America's typically unconditional backing at the UN.

Those who truly love Israel should understand that the US abstention is a wake up call to the fact that this war is seriously damaging the country's standing in the world, and is likely to eventually sever longstanding and significant ties at great expense to its future.
 
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Crunchtime said:
Ask the person that wrote it. I simply asked the question.
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You are the one that said it was anti Semitic so of course I am asking you to explain your point
 
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