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Blockaides, checkpoints, buldozing of homes, settlement expansion, bombings, reducing aid, rationing of water and electricity, use of white phosphorous, etc..You ignored the " By Comparison"
But assuming you are on point, what collective punishment?
Ok and i agree. But i dont see how this condones Israels actions.Hamas treated Fatah members in Gaza worse by far collectively and they were supposed tobe allies and friends. Sunni and Shiites treat each other worse collectively by far and they are Muslims.
Egyptians----Syrians--Iraqi -Kurds, Afghans- Pakistani and so on treat Muslims of differing political/sectarian/tribal position collectively worse by far, they are dying in the streets as we speak. With all that there are those continually turning a blind eye and censoring the only democratic country, the minute and usually compassionate by comparison, Israel.
You know that all of these are due to arab terrorism right?Blockaides, checkpoints, buldozing of homes, settlement expansion, bombings, reducing aid, rationing of water and electricity, use of white phosphorous, etc..
You know that all of these are due to arab terrorism right?
Or maybe the Israelis should defend themselves by doing nothing?
Nope, but they would not have occupied the WestBank if arab countries would not attacked them...Expanding settlements somehow combats "arab terrorism"?
So because that Arab countries have historically attacked Israel in the past therefor Israel needed to expand and kick out people who have already lived there creating more hatred toward Israel? Im not following this logic one bit..Nope, but they would not have occupied the WestBank if arab countries would not attacked them...
Im ignoring illegal acts? What they are doing is illegal.You are condemning Israel ignoring totally their reasons.
I agree with ecofarm, the building of new settlements is hardly justified.
Since this discussion has changed into a general exchange of ideas on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict:
My opinion on this whole conflict recetly shifted a great deal from a slightly pro-palestinian, sympathy-for-the-underdog sort of attitude towards, a better understanding of Israel (not really a justification of its policies though). I had a long conversation with a Palestinian 20-year-old whose family is associated with Fatah, and what he basically told me is three things:
1. The majority of the Palestinians will never accept Israel's right to exist.
2. A two state solution with the West Bank and Gaza strip outside of Israeli control is seen by most Palestinians as a first step towards a "liberation" of Palestine as a whole (dissolving the Jewish state).
3. The reason why most Palestinians don't get to "work" for a "liberation" of Palestine is that they have to struggle to survive in the West bank.
How then should Israel make peace? How can Israel stop the horrible, humiliating, and inhumane occupation regime of the West Bank with its walls, checkpoints, soldiers, and settlers making Palestinian life a miserable struggle, how can Israel stop all of that or parts of it without risking its own existence? Would there be terrorism and mass murder if you let the Palestinians breathe free? Are the settlements, from an Israeli perspective, created to prevent that, to put an ever increasing pressure on the Palestinians so that they either get out of there or, well, not die, but are busy struggling to survive and can't cause any trouble?
Horrible. Simply horrible.
Arabs attacked, lost, and paid.So because that Arab countries have historically attacked Israel in the past therefor Israel needed to expand and kick out people who have already lived there creating more hatred toward Israel? Im not following this logic one bit..
It is illegal to defend from that?: List of Palestinian suicide attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaIm ignoring illegal acts? What they are doing is illegal.
So once you win a war its this: "**** everyone elses interests like the people who live there we will just kick them out and tell them to kick rocks and build a settlement on their land"?Arabs attacked, lost, and paid.
Egypt got back the Sinai by making peace with Israel, that's a clear example that Israelis don't give a damn about expanding their country.
Couldnt i say the same about Israel? Follow international law then we will start peace talks?Don't you think the palestinians should stop blackmailing Israel (like asking the liberation of 100 murderers as precondition for even start to talk) and do something to favor peace agreements?
Are you saying i dont condemn suicide and terrorist attacks?It is illegal to defend from that?: List of Palestinian suicide attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[
And these are the suicide bombings attack only, not to mention rocket launch on Israeli cities and attacks against Jews/Israelis outside Israel.
I'm not saying occupy WB was right or wrong, I just say that you cannot try to destroy a country like arabs did and pretend that won't be consequences on you. Plain and simple.So once you win a war its this: "**** everyone elses interests like the people who live there we will just kick them out and tell them to kick rocks and build a settlement on their land"?
Man, they are even liberating murderers who killed Israeli civilians in order to meet Palestinians. I am sure no other country in the world would have accepted that absurd request.Couldnt i say the same about Israel? Follow international law then we will start peace talks?
I said what I said, and it was that Israelis are defending themselves from terror attacks. But you seems to condemn Israeli security measures like the security fence and the checkpoints.Are you saying i dont condemn suicide and terrorist attacks?
Nope, but they would not have occupied the WestBank if arab countries would not attacked them...
You are condemning Israel ignoring totally their reasons.
The argument is that Israelis didn't wake up one day and decided to occupy the WestBank, but they did it as a result of the war declared by arab countries.what kind of argument it is?! it's like USA attack Italy, after war Italy occupy Spain and kick Spanish out from their lands for 60 years, against any international and human laws because USA attacked them 60 years ago!
The argument is that Israelis didn't wake up one day and decided to occupy the WestBank, but they did it as a result of the war declared by arab countries.
Again, I'm not saying this was right or wrong. It is just what happened.[/I]
It is not a secret that palestinians use homes and other civilian areas as rocket launch stations.your argument is like when israel kill civilians and claim it was as a result of targeting militias! (there is no connection or rationality and it can't be considered as a "Cause" and You shouldn't repeat a false argument that has nothing to do with reality)
Yes instead, since '67 the WestBank was occupied by Jordan and Gaza by Egypt. The things changes after the Six Day War.there is no direct or indirect connection between Israel-Arab war and occupying Palestinians lands. after all, you can call it an "excuse". i am wonder why Israel didn't occupy GAZA after 2003 Israel-hezbollah war as a "result" of War!
I'm not saying occupy WB was right or wrong, I just say that you cannot try to destroy a country like arabs did and pretend that won't be consequences on you. Plain and simple.
This is bad news for peace talks, and poorly timed. The settlements have always been a thorn in my side. I'm pro-Israel but how can they possibly believe long-term peace can exist while they continue to swallow up Palestinian territories for themselves? Bah, a pox on both their houses.
this is what you said : You are condemning Israel ignoring totally their reasons.
i say what kind of reason?! some made up propaganda or ...?
your argument is like when Israel kill civilians and claim it was as a result of targeting militias or as a result of terrorism attacks! (there is no connection or rationality between these two different issue, and it can't be considered as a "Cause" and You shouldn't repeat a false argument that has nothing to do with reality)
there is no direct or indirect connection between Israel-Arab war and occupying Palestinians lands. after all, you can call it an "excuse". i am wonder why Israel didn't occupy GAZA after 2003 Israel-hezbollah war as a "result" of War!
Wasn't it isralie teritory befor the exile so technacly didn't they liberated their ancesteral home land?Nonsense.
It wasn't 'palestinian land'
It was occupied by Israel as a result of the war.
It is 'disputed territory.'
Israel left Gaza and is still attacked from Gaza.
Left Lebanon, is still attacked from Lebanon.
Left the Sinai, is attacked from the Sinai.
Why should Israel 'give up' anything without anything to gain, particularly security.
Wasn't it isralie teritory befor the exile so technacly didn't they liberated their ancesteral home land?
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