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Israel approves another 900 settler homes

You ignored the " By Comparison"

But assuming you are on point, what collective punishment?
Blockaides, checkpoints, buldozing of homes, settlement expansion, bombings, reducing aid, rationing of water and electricity, use of white phosphorous, etc..


Hamas treated Fatah members in Gaza worse by far collectively and they were supposed tobe allies and friends. Sunni and Shiites treat each other worse collectively by far and they are Muslims.

Egyptians----Syrians--Iraqi -Kurds, Afghans- Pakistani and so on treat Muslims of differing political/sectarian/tribal position collectively worse by far, they are dying in the streets as we speak. With all that there are those continually turning a blind eye and censoring the only democratic country, the minute and usually compassionate by comparison, Israel.
Ok and i agree. But i dont see how this condones Israels actions.
 
I agree with ecofarm, the building of new settlements is hardly justified.

Since this discussion has changed into a general exchange of ideas on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict:

My opinion on this whole conflict recetly shifted a great deal from a slightly pro-palestinian, sympathy-for-the-underdog sort of attitude towards, a better understanding of Israel (not really a justification of its policies though). I had a long conversation with a Palestinian 20-year-old whose family is associated with Fatah, and what he basically told me is three things:

1. The majority of the Palestinians will never accept Israel's right to exist.

2. A two state solution with the West Bank and Gaza strip outside of Israeli control is seen by most Palestinians as a first step towards a "liberation" of Palestine as a whole (dissolving the Jewish state).

3. The reason why most Palestinians don't get to "work" for a "liberation" of Palestine is that they have to struggle to survive in the West bank.

How then should Israel make peace? How can Israel stop the horrible, humiliating, and inhumane occupation regime of the West Bank with its walls, checkpoints, soldiers, and settlers making Palestinian life a miserable struggle, how can Israel stop all of that or parts of it without risking its own existence? Would there be terrorism and mass murder if you let the Palestinians breathe free? Are the settlements, from an Israeli perspective, created to prevent that, to put an ever increasing pressure on the Palestinians so that they either get out of there or, well, not die, but are busy struggling to survive and can't cause any trouble?

Horrible. Simply horrible.
 
This is bad news for peace talks, and poorly timed. The settlements have always been a thorn in my side. I'm pro-Israel but how can they possibly believe long-term peace can exist while they continue to swallow up Palestinian territories for themselves? Bah, a pox on both their houses.
 
Blockaides, checkpoints, buldozing of homes, settlement expansion, bombings, reducing aid, rationing of water and electricity, use of white phosphorous, etc..
You know that all of these are due to arab terrorism right?
Or maybe the Israelis should defend themselves by doing nothing?
 
You know that all of these are due to arab terrorism right?
Or maybe the Israelis should defend themselves by doing nothing?

Expanding settlements somehow combats "arab terrorism"?
 
Expanding settlements somehow combats "arab terrorism"?
Nope, but they would not have occupied the WestBank if arab countries would not attacked them...
You are condemning Israel ignoring totally their reasons.
 
Nope, but they would not have occupied the WestBank if arab countries would not attacked them...
So because that Arab countries have historically attacked Israel in the past therefor Israel needed to expand and kick out people who have already lived there creating more hatred toward Israel? Im not following this logic one bit..

You are condemning Israel ignoring totally their reasons.
Im ignoring illegal acts? What they are doing is illegal.
 
I agree with ecofarm, the building of new settlements is hardly justified.

Since this discussion has changed into a general exchange of ideas on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict:

My opinion on this whole conflict recetly shifted a great deal from a slightly pro-palestinian, sympathy-for-the-underdog sort of attitude towards, a better understanding of Israel (not really a justification of its policies though). I had a long conversation with a Palestinian 20-year-old whose family is associated with Fatah, and what he basically told me is three things:

1. The majority of the Palestinians will never accept Israel's right to exist.

2. A two state solution with the West Bank and Gaza strip outside of Israeli control is seen by most Palestinians as a first step towards a "liberation" of Palestine as a whole (dissolving the Jewish state).

3. The reason why most Palestinians don't get to "work" for a "liberation" of Palestine is that they have to struggle to survive in the West bank.

How then should Israel make peace? How can Israel stop the horrible, humiliating, and inhumane occupation regime of the West Bank with its walls, checkpoints, soldiers, and settlers making Palestinian life a miserable struggle, how can Israel stop all of that or parts of it without risking its own existence? Would there be terrorism and mass murder if you let the Palestinians breathe free? Are the settlements, from an Israeli perspective, created to prevent that, to put an ever increasing pressure on the Palestinians so that they either get out of there or, well, not die, but are busy struggling to survive and can't cause any trouble?

Horrible. Simply horrible.

1000 likes for this post. I'm in general more sympathetic to the Israeli side, but the conflict appears to be one where neither of the participants wish to be involved, but they have been forced into it by external (Arab states) and internal (Arafat, Hamas, Israeli religious parties) enemies.
 
So because that Arab countries have historically attacked Israel in the past therefor Israel needed to expand and kick out people who have already lived there creating more hatred toward Israel? Im not following this logic one bit..
Arabs attacked, lost, and paid.
Egypt got back the Sinai by making peace with Israel, that's a clear example that Israelis don't give a damn about expanding their country.
Don't you think the palestinians should stop blackmailing Israel (like asking the liberation of 100 murderers as precondition for even start to talk) and do something to favor peace agreements?

Im ignoring illegal acts? What they are doing is illegal.
It is illegal to defend from that?: List of Palestinian suicide attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
And these are the suicide bombings attack only, not to mention rocket launch on Israeli cities and attacks against Jews/Israelis outside Israel.
 
Arabs attacked, lost, and paid.
Egypt got back the Sinai by making peace with Israel, that's a clear example that Israelis don't give a damn about expanding their country.
So once you win a war its this: "**** everyone elses interests like the people who live there we will just kick them out and tell them to kick rocks and build a settlement on their land"?

Don't you think the palestinians should stop blackmailing Israel (like asking the liberation of 100 murderers as precondition for even start to talk) and do something to favor peace agreements?
Couldnt i say the same about Israel? Follow international law then we will start peace talks?


It is illegal to defend from that?: List of Palestinian suicide attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[
And these are the suicide bombings attack only, not to mention rocket launch on Israeli cities and attacks against Jews/Israelis outside Israel.
Are you saying i dont condemn suicide and terrorist attacks?
 
So once you win a war its this: "**** everyone elses interests like the people who live there we will just kick them out and tell them to kick rocks and build a settlement on their land"?
I'm not saying occupy WB was right or wrong, I just say that you cannot try to destroy a country like arabs did and pretend that won't be consequences on you. Plain and simple.

Couldnt i say the same about Israel? Follow international law then we will start peace talks?
Man, they are even liberating murderers who killed Israeli civilians in order to meet Palestinians. I am sure no other country in the world would have accepted that absurd request.

Are you saying i dont condemn suicide and terrorist attacks?
I said what I said, and it was that Israelis are defending themselves from terror attacks. But you seems to condemn Israeli security measures like the security fence and the checkpoints.
 
Nope, but they would not have occupied the WestBank if arab countries would not attacked them...
You are condemning Israel ignoring totally their reasons.


what kind of argument it is?! it's like USA attack Italy, after war Italy occupy Spain and kick Spanish out from their lands for 60 years, against any international and human laws because USA attacked them 60 years ago!
 
The whole Israel/Palestine situation can be summarized with "two wrongs don't make a right", repeated ad infinitum.

I realize Palestine has done plenty of wrong, including the recent rocket attacks, but what exactly does that have to do with Israel's illegal settlements? The UN has already condemned them for it, but the Security Council can't do anything as long as the U.S. has veto power.

The whole world knows that what Israel is doing is wrong, it's just that there is no real impetus to stop it. If the long history of that region proves tenacious, then Israel will not be able to keep the settled areas forever. All they're doing is engaging in neo-colonialism, creating resentment, and providing more fuel for war.

Isn't it abundantly obvious by now that neither side is the higher authority? They're both acting as aggressors.
 
what kind of argument it is?! it's like USA attack Italy, after war Italy occupy Spain and kick Spanish out from their lands for 60 years, against any international and human laws because USA attacked them 60 years ago!
The argument is that Israelis didn't wake up one day and decided to occupy the WestBank, but they did it as a result of the war declared by arab countries.
Again, I'm not saying this was right or wrong. It is just what happened.

I quote myself: you cannot try to destroy a country like arabs did and pretend that won't be consequences on you
 
My idea is for West Bank and Ghaza to be linked by a Palestinian authority underground tunnel. That way Israel would not be divided and they would get a single state.

Hopefully that would make everyone happy and peaceful. Presently, and regretfully, I doubt it though.
 
The argument is that Israelis didn't wake up one day and decided to occupy the WestBank, but they did it as a result of the war declared by arab countries.
Again, I'm not saying this was right or wrong. It is just what happened.[/I]

this is what you said : You are condemning Israel ignoring totally their reasons.


i say what kind of reason?! some made up propaganda or ...?

your argument is like when Israel kill civilians and claim it was as a result of targeting militias or as a result of terrorism attacks! (there is no connection or rationality between these two different issue, and it can't be considered as a "Cause" and You shouldn't repeat a false argument that has nothing to do with reality)


there is no direct or indirect connection between Israel-Arab war and occupying Palestinians lands. after all, you can call it an "excuse". i am wonder why Israel didn't occupy GAZA after 2003 Israel-hezbollah war as a "result" of War!
 
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If it was not this, then it would have been an attack somewhere by either sides radicals. One thing is clear, the Israeli government does not want peace, nor does its radical backers or the radical parts of the Palestinian state. Only the moderates on both sides want peace but they aint running the show at the moment.
 
your argument is like when israel kill civilians and claim it was as a result of targeting militias! (there is no connection or rationality and it can't be considered as a "Cause" and You shouldn't repeat a false argument that has nothing to do with reality)
It is not a secret that palestinians use homes and other civilian areas as rocket launch stations.
So yes, the Israeli claim can be true.

there is no direct or indirect connection between Israel-Arab war and occupying Palestinians lands. after all, you can call it an "excuse". i am wonder why Israel didn't occupy GAZA after 2003 Israel-hezbollah war as a "result" of War!
Yes instead, since '67 the WestBank was occupied by Jordan and Gaza by Egypt. The things changes after the Six Day War.
 
I'm not saying occupy WB was right or wrong, I just say that you cannot try to destroy a country like arabs did and pretend that won't be consequences on you. Plain and simple.

So settlements are a means of punishment not at all for security reasons, no?

Military occupation ≠ civilian settlements.
 
This is bad news for peace talks, and poorly timed. The settlements have always been a thorn in my side. I'm pro-Israel but how can they possibly believe long-term peace can exist while they continue to swallow up Palestinian territories for themselves? Bah, a pox on both their houses.

The timing could not be worse if they tried. It can only be desribed as a measure to placate those on the right of Israeli politics. What is compelling is the lack of support (generally) from pro-Israeli supports.


Paul
 
I believe these were the houses that were approved for construction last November but stalled. Now the the plans have been reinstated by were known about by Kerry a while before the peace talks were to begin. Anyway, the tenders for construction will take months to come through.
 
this is what you said : You are condemning Israel ignoring totally their reasons.


i say what kind of reason?! some made up propaganda or ...?

your argument is like when Israel kill civilians and claim it was as a result of targeting militias or as a result of terrorism attacks! (there is no connection or rationality between these two different issue, and it can't be considered as a "Cause" and You shouldn't repeat a false argument that has nothing to do with reality)


there is no direct or indirect connection between Israel-Arab war and occupying Palestinians lands. after all, you can call it an "excuse". i am wonder why Israel didn't occupy GAZA after 2003 Israel-hezbollah war as a "result" of War!


Nonsense.
It wasn't 'palestinian land'

It was occupied by Israel as a result of the war.

It is 'disputed territory.'

Israel left Gaza and is still attacked from Gaza.
Left Lebanon, is still attacked from Lebanon.
Left the Sinai, is attacked from the Sinai.
Why should Israel 'give up' anything without anything to gain, particularly security.
 
Nonsense.
It wasn't 'palestinian land'

It was occupied by Israel as a result of the war.

It is 'disputed territory.'

Israel left Gaza and is still attacked from Gaza.
Left Lebanon, is still attacked from Lebanon.
Left the Sinai, is attacked from the Sinai.
Why should Israel 'give up' anything without anything to gain, particularly security.
Wasn't it isralie teritory befor the exile so technacly didn't they liberated their ancesteral home land?
 
this shwos the Zionists only care about land and not peace with Arabs or Muslims!
 
Wasn't it isralie teritory befor the exile so technacly didn't they liberated their ancesteral home land?

Palestine had belonged to Muslims for centureies for more than the Jews.

1200 years against 900 years!
 
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