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Israel approves another 900 settler homes

this shwos the Zionists only care about land and not peace with Arabs or Muslims!

Um, only the Palestinians are demanding land as a precondition to negotiations. Not the Israelis.
 
The Israelis are being stupid. No rational person, not even those of us who typically defend Israel, can possibly excuse this unethical and downright asinine building of settlements.
 
The Israelis are being stupid. No rational person, not even those of us who typically defend Israel, can possibly excuse this unethical and downright asinine building of settlements.

1. I'm sure Kerry and BB has an understanding about continuing the constructions at the large settlements.
2. If BB will order to stop the building at east jeruselm after he released killers as part of process peace (as you said-stupied), Bennett will leave the government and we will go to ellections.
3. if i will tell you to stop the buildings in Washington, would you listen to me?
 
1. I'm sure Kerry and BB has an understanding about continuing the constructions at the large settlements.
2. If BB will order to stop the building at east jeruselm after he released killers as part of process peace (as you said-stupied), Bennett will leave the government and we will go to ellections.
3. if i will tell you to stop the buildings in Washington, would you listen to me?

The problem is that our government, a right wing one I might add, got so fixed on not bending to the demand of freezing expansion in settlements that they've done something much much worse in order to initiate negotiations - releasing human garbage from prison. How could it be that building a house in Efrat is more valuable than keeping a murderer in prison?
 
The problem is that our government, a right wing one I might add, got so fixed on not bending to the demand of freezing expansion in settlements that they've done something much much worse in order to initiate negotiations - releasing human garbage from prison. How could it be that building a house in Efrat is more valuable than keeping a murderer in prison?

I cannot fault the building of settlements. After all IF there is a peace treaty such will be part and parcel of such terms. The housing is simply another issue to be in any agreement. If Israel wants to push - shtup the peace process it needs to play every card it has. The settlements in the disputed territory are not stopping any negotiations. Any negotiations need suit Israel's security and are issues to be bartered. Giving up any small piece of land for no peace concession *THAT CAN BE GUARANTEED, would be rather inane.


* see Gaza, Lebanon, Sinai..attack from

I cannot understand the release of these criminals..meshuge..a khaloshes..
 
The Israelis are being stupid. No rational person, not even those of us who typically defend Israel, can possibly excuse this unethical and downright asinine building of settlements.


No they aren't. Its disputed territory and any settlements built are simply another card to be played in negotiations. They could well be trade or barter points.

BTW. It's soooo easy to criticize Israel, but I doubt the Arabs there are suffering as they do in Arab countries.Additionally, I betcha the Arabs there are doing the building and supplying materials if it suits them...
'We" don't know Israels problems nor it's reasons, but, Israel has to put Israels needs first since history has shown others will simply toss them (Jews) to the wolves as scapegoat.
 
I cannot fault the building of settlements. After all IF there is a peace treaty such will be part and parcel of such terms. The housing is simply another issue to be in any agreement. If Israel wants to push - shtup the peace process it needs to play every card it has. The settlements in the disputed territory are not stopping any negotiations. Any negotiations need suit Israel's security and are issues to be bartered. Giving up any small piece of land for no peace concession *THAT CAN BE GUARANTEED, would be rather inane.


* see Gaza, Lebanon, Sinai..attack from

I cannot understand the release of these criminals..meshuge..a khaloshes..

IMO the problem isn't giving up land, the problem is lack of retaliation for attacks from these territories after Israel withdrew.

The 2nd Lebanon war should have started when Hezbollah took 3 Israeli soldiers hostage at 2000, not when they did it again in 2006. Same goes for Cast Lead, the heavy response should have been when the first rocket after the withdraw fell in Israel, not at 2009. The border with Lebanon has been quite for 7 years now, its the longest time ever in the history of our country and we do not pay with the loss of ~50 Israeli soldiers a year to keep it that way.

In any way freezing expansion for a few month to show good faith is not the same as "giving up territory". It's merely a gesture of good faith and a much better gesture from Israeli POV comparing to release of Palestinian murderers.
 
1000 likes for this post. I'm in general more sympathetic to the Israeli side, but the conflict appears to be one where neither of the participants wish to be involved, but they have been forced into it by external (Arab states) and internal (Arafat, Hamas, Israeli religious parties) enemies.

Thanks for the likes ;)

I wouldn't actually take either side in that conflict, but it does seem that Israel's right to exist is the main issue, more so than I had previously thought. One of the major problems does seem to be the right to return for the Palestinian refugees. How do you convince a Palestinian with national, religious, and personal and family pride that it was okay for the Israelis to kick them out of their home (or deny them their famous "Right Of Return" after they fled in the 1948 war)? It is simply not possible. The Israelis must accept the fact that their state was built on a tremendous injustice towards the previous inhabitants (and not just built up in the desert from nothing). They must develop an awareness of that injustice. And the Palestinians must accept the fact that wanting to kick the Jews out of Palestine would mean doing the same injustice towards the Israelis that the ancestors of today's Israelis did to their ancestors - and therefore renounce that idea.

My guess is that as long as there is no dialogue on those fundamental issues, as long as Israelis and Palestinians fail to find a common narrative for the creation of the Israeli state, there will be ceasefires but no peace.
 
Thanks for the likes ;)

I wouldn't actually take either side in that conflict, but it does seem that Israel's right to exist is the main issue, more so than I had previously thought. One of the major problems does seem to be the right to return for the Palestinian refugees. How do you convince a Palestinian with national, religious, and personal and family pride that it was okay for the Israelis to kick them out of their home (or deny them their famous "Right Of Return" after they fled in the 1948 war)? It is simply not possible. The Israelis must accept the fact that their state was built on a tremendous injustice towards the previous inhabitants (and not just built up in the desert from nothing). They must develop an awareness of that injustice. And the Palestinians must accept the fact that wanting to kick the Jews out of Palestine would mean doing the same injustice towards the Israelis that the ancestors of today's Israelis did to their ancestors - and therefore renounce that idea.

My guess is that as long as there is no dialogue on those fundamental issues, as long as Israelis and Palestinians fail to find a common narrative for the creation of the Israeli state, there will be ceasefires but no peace.

I don't think that the refugee situation is as current a situation as Israel's right to exist. Historians still disagree as to how much refugees were forcibly removed vs. how many left of their own free will. That aside, the burden of the refugee problem should be placed on the PA and the Arab states, who don't allow citizenship to the descendants of the refugees who were born in that country and who explicitly deny the refugees the right to integrate into their countries. In the Indo-Pakistani war of about the same time the refugees from both sides were eventually assimilated. Why can't the same hold true for the Palestinian refugees?
 
I don't think that the refugee situation is as current a situation as Israel's right to exist. Historians still disagree as to how much refugees were forcibly removed vs. how many left of their own free will. That aside, the burden of the refugee problem should be placed on the PA and the Arab states, who don't allow citizenship to the descendants of the refugees who were born in that country and who explicitly deny the refugees the right to integrate into their countries. In the Indo-Pakistani war of about the same time the refugees from both sides were eventually assimilated. Why can't the same hold true for the Palestinian refugees?

In my view it is because these people are more pawns to be used for political purposes than folks anyone, least of all the Arab states care about. Everyone understands that the one real show stopper for any peace deal will be to insist that the refugees and their offspring be allowed to return. That would be the end of the Jewish state.

It does not seem that there will be any real peace for many years if ever. Not in the interests of the rulers who have made their fortunes on the misery of this constant low grade war.

Not sure why Israel does not at least declare Gaza their own state. Since Hamas has vowed to destroy Israel it would seem that lack of movement across borders would be an acceptable reaction to a neighbor who lobs missles into your land when they feel like making some noise.
 
I don't think that the refugee situation is as current a situation as Israel's right to exist. Historians still disagree as to how much refugees were forcibly removed vs. how many left of their own free will. That aside, the burden of the refugee problem should be placed on the PA and the Arab states, who don't allow citizenship to the descendants of the refugees who were born in that country and who explicitly deny the refugees the right to integrate into their countries. In the Indo-Pakistani war of about the same time the refugees from both sides were eventually assimilated. Why can't the same hold true for the Palestinian refugees?

Well, not being allowed to return to your home after having hastily fled it in the chaos of war is effectively the same thing as being expelled. I find the question of how many were literally kicked out and how many left in fear before they would have been kicked out rather uninteresting. If the right to return would be an end to the Jewish state, that means that the existence of that state is based on a tremendous injustice which was committed in the past.

Sure, the surrounding Arab states are co-responsible for the misery of the Palestinians. If they'd assimilate the Palestinians, much could be gained, and the conflict could, maybe, be solved. Those states are pursuing an absolutely ruthless policy. But still, it was not from Jordan, not from Lebanon, not from Syria and not from Egypt that the Palestinians were expelled, but from present-day Israel.

Imagine Chinese people with a minority religion would come to Belgium, after having survived persecution and genocide attempts in Asia, kick out the Flemish people and create a Falun Gong state in Flanders/Northern Belgium. If they would send them all to Wallonia/Southern Belgium, and the French, German, and Dutch government would refuse to let them in. Would the French, German, and Dutch governments then be responsible for the fate of the Flemish? The primary responsibility would certainly be with the Falun Gong people who created their state in Europe.

Of course the Israelis of today are not responsible for having created the refugee problem, and the Palestinians of today must recognize that and recognize the fact that Israel is their home. But the point remains, as long as Israelis celebrate the creation of their state without any sensitivity for the dark side of that founding act (similar to the sensitivity that Americans nowadays have for the fate of the Native Americans), and as long as the Palestinians mourn their Nakba without sympathy for the Jews who fled genocide and persecution in Europe, there will be no lasting peace.
 
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The problem is that our government, a right wing one I might add, got so fixed on not bending to the demand of freezing expansion in settlements that they've done something much much worse in order to initiate negotiations - releasing human garbage from prison. How could it be that building a house in Efrat is more valuable than keeping a murderer in prison?

I dont think its black or white, releasing killers or freezing expansion in the settlement.
i belive releasing terrorists was the condition of Abbas (and kerry) regardless to the buildings in the settlement for getting into negotiation. without this condition Abbas will never agreed to sit and talk. The building in the large settelments its a "compensation" for Bennett.
 
Well, not being allowed to return to your home after having hastily fled it in the chaos of war is effectively the same thing as being expelled. I find the question of how many were literally kicked out and how many left in fear before they would have been kicked out rather uninteresting. If the right to return would be an end to the Jewish state, that means that the existence of that state is based on a tremendous injustice which was committed in the past.

Sure, the surrounding Arab states are co-responsible for the misery of the Palestinians. If they'd assimilate the Palestinians, much could be gained, and the conflict could, maybe, be solved. Those states are pursuing an absolutely ruthless policy. But still, it was not from Jordan, not from Lebanon, not from Syria and not from Egypt that the Palestinians were expelled, but from present-day Israel.

Imagine Chinese people with a minority religion would come to Belgium, after having survived persecution and genocide attempts in Asia, kick out the Flemish people and create a Falun Gong state in Flanders/Northern Belgium. If they would send them all to Wallonia/Southern Belgium, and the French, German, and Dutch government would refuse to let them in. Would the French, German, and Dutch governments then be responsible for the fate of the Flemish? The primary responsibility would certainly be with the Falun Gong people who created their state in Europe.

Of course the Israelis of today are not responsible for having created the refugee problem, and the Palestinians of today must recognize that and recognize the fact that Israel is their home. But the point remains, as long as Israelis celebrate the creation of their state without any sensitivity for the dark side of that founding act (similar to the sensitivity that Americans nowadays have for the fate of the Native Americans), and as long as the Palestinians mourn their Nakba without sympathy for the Jews who fled genocide and persecution in Europe, there will be no lasting peace.

While I agree it was less than fair how territories were carved up shortly after WWII, but that is the reality. Not unlike what happened to many Hindus who had to leave what is now Pakistan and move to India. The difference is that they were allowed to assimilate as you mentioned and be a cauldron of hate for 60+ years.

There have been a lot of injustices in the world. Not all can be undone sixty years later. Just as Americans will not move to allow native Americans to take back New York.

I true solution will be one based on current conditions, we can not turn back the clock.
 
I dont think its black or white, releasing killers or freezing expansion in the settlement.
i belive releasing terrorists was the condition of Abbas (and kerry) regardless to the buildings in the settlement for getting into negotiation. without this condition Abbas will never agreed to sit and talk. The building in the large settelments its a "compensation" for Bennett.


If releasing killers was a precondition for these talks then it shows what a folly they really are.
 
While I agree it was less than fair how territories were carved up shortly after WWII, but that is the reality. Not unlike what happened to many Hindus who had to leave what is now Pakistan and move to India. The difference is that they were allowed to assimilate as you mentioned and be a cauldron of hate for 60+ years.

There have been a lot of injustices in the world. Not all can be undone sixty years later. Just as Americans will not move to allow native Americans to take back New York.

I true solution will be one based on current conditions, we can not turn back the clock.

Sure. I just hope that pragmatism will be the attitude of the majority.
 
I dont think its black or white, releasing killers or freezing expansion in the settlement.
i belive releasing terrorists was the condition of Abbas (and kerry) regardless to the buildings in the settlement for getting into negotiation. without this condition Abbas will never agreed to sit and talk. The building in the large settlements its a "compensation" for Bennett.

It is black and white. While Palestinians have world wide support in their demand to stop building in the west bank they have none for release of prisoners, if Israel declared it stops expansion in order to bring Palestinians back to the negotiations table and Palestinians would refuse because Israel holds murderers in prison they would have lost global support which they worked so hard to achieve in the past 3 years. The blaming finger for lack of progress in the peace process would have turned to them instead of us.

Our government decided releasing murderers is better than bending to the Palestinian pre-condition.
 
It is black and white. While Palestinians have world wide support in their demand to stop building in the west bank they have none for release of prisoners, if Israel declared it stops expansion in order to bring Palestinians back to the negotiations table and Palestinians would refuse because Israel holds murderers in prison they would have lost global support which they worked so hard to achieve in the past 3 years. The blaming finger for lack of progress in the peace process would have turned to them instead of us.

Our government decided releasing murderers is better than bending to the Palestinian pre-condition.

Releasing the murderers was one of the three Abbas pre-conditions. Kerry did two things: made Abbas to drop the other two pre conditions and conviced BB to obeyed Abbas one pre condition. Its was not a binary decision.
If BB was have to choose between the two options, he was choosing to stop the buildings in the WB. BB is son to bereaved family and he is known as not a big fan of the building in the WB, like he prooved in his last government.
 
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