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Israel and Palestine

Israel or Palestine?

  • Israel. The UN created it for a reason

    Votes: 19 36.5%
  • Palestine. It was their land.

    Votes: 12 23.1%
  • Israel, but the land the UN gave them when first made.

    Votes: 8 15.4%
  • Other (post below)

    Votes: 13 25.0%

  • Total voters
    52

V.I. Lenin

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Which one should own the land?
 

akyron

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V.I. Lenin said:
Which one should own the land?
I voted Israel. People are welcome to provide other viewpoints.



Myths of the Middle East


The truth is that Palestine is no more real than Never-Never Land. The first time the name was used was in 70 A.D. when the Romans committed genocide against the Jews, smashed the Temple and declared the land of Israel would be no more. From then on, the Romans promised, it would be known as Palestine. The name was derived from the Philistines, a Goliathian people conquered by the Jews centuries earlier. It was a way for the Romans to add insult to injury. They also tried to change the name of Jerusalem to Aelia Capitolina, but that had even less staying power.

Palestine has never existed -- before or since -- as an autonomous entity. It was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Empire and, briefly, by the British after World War I. The British agreed to restore at least part of the land to the Jewish people as their homeland.

There is no language known as Palestinian. There is no distinct Palestinian culture. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc. Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of 1 percent of the landmass.

But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today. Greed. Pride. Envy. Covetousness. No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough.

What about Islam's holy sites? There are none in Jerusalem.

Shocked? You should be. I don't expect you will ever hear this brutal truth from anyone else in the international media. It's just not politically correct.

I know what you're going to say: "Farah, the Al Aqsa Mosque and the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem represent Islam's third most holy sites."

Not true. In fact, the Koran says nothing about Jerusalem. It mentions Mecca hundreds of times. It mentions Medina countless times. It never mentions Jerusalem. With good reason. There is no historical evidence to suggest Mohammed ever visited Jerusalem
---WorldNetDaily.com
by Joseph Farah
 

Arch Enemy

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I would like them to split the land; there won't be a winning side unless the UN lets Israel go bonkers on Palestine.

Israel can easily destroy Palestine but they want the peaceful way out. Remember what they did to the Egyptian Air-Force and the rest of the Middle-East?
 

ludahai

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I voted other because I believe that there should be both an Israel and a Palestine, but not with the U.N. borders. I believe the borders should be as they were in 1967 with the exception that East Jerusalem be attached permanently to Israel.
 

shuamort

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I voted other because I believe it shouldn't be up to the United States to get involved in the religious war over there. Let them figure it out amongst themselves.
 

ludahai

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shuamort said:
I voted other because I believe it shouldn't be up to the United States to get involved in the religious war over there. Let them figure it out amongst themselves.
Who said anything about the United States being the one to get involved?
 

shuamort

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ludahai said:
Who said anything about the United States being the one to get involved?
I did. The US is one of Israel's biggest supporters and that is one of the reasons 9/11 happened.
 

ShamMol

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shuamort said:
I did. The US is one of Israel's biggest supporters and that is one of the reasons 9/11 happened.
One of many reasons, true. I voted other and I agree with Arch enemy.

btw-if we don't help, we won't get an outcome we like.
 

Fantasea

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Arch Enemy said:
I would like them to split the land; there won't be a winning side unless the UN lets Israel go bonkers on Palestine.

Israel can easily destroy Palestine but they want the peaceful way out. Remember what they did to the Egyptian Air-Force and the rest of the Middle-East?
The entire country is smaller in size than the State of New Jersey, and much of it is desert. What is there to split?

Why haven't the wealthy Arab nations which surround Israel shown some mercy and compassion for the generations of those they call Palestinians instead of forcing them to live in horrendous conditions in the quest to force Israel into the sea?

The answer is simple. It is a game and the miserable Arabs called Palestinians are clearly the pawns. Their lives are continually sacrificed in order to keep the pot boiling. If the folks in the Arab capitals who pull the strings wanted peace, they could order it to occur at 2 PM tomorrow, and it would.

They always get what they want. However, peace is not what they want, is it?
 

teacher

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Historically hasn't land ownership been by sales, given,claimed, or won in conflict? The Jews were attacked and for punishment Arabs lost land. One should expect and accept consequences for one's actions.
 

teacher

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Fantasea said:
The entire country is smaller in size than the State of New Jersey, and much of it is desert. What is there to split?

Why haven't the wealthy Arab nations which surround Israel shown some mercy and compassion for the generations of those they call Palestinians instead of forcing them to live in horrendous conditions in the quest to force Israel into the sea?

The answer is simple. It is a game and the miserable Arabs called Palestinians are clearly the pawns. Their lives are continually sacrificed in order to keep the pot boiling. If the folks in the Arab capitals who pull the strings wanted peace, they could order it to occur at 2 PM tomorrow, and it would.

They always get what they want. However, peace is not what they want, is it?
Most excellent (original I think) point. I will use that one. Teacher has learned. The Muslims don't have each others back do they in spite of all their rhetoric. To carry it further when the chips are down Christian nations (in recent history) seem to help each other. Not committed to that but send opposing examples if any because if none we might be on to something worth further scrutiny. Last 100 years or so.
 

teacher

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No matter the history, religious belief, or any topic the most salient point is Palestinians target children. If they didn't I would consider their platform but that is just indescribable. How the Jews have had as much restraint as they have is either respectable or unfathomable. How many presently singing cumbaya would change their tune if their child was blown up. Can anyone defend that? If a child of mine was killed so people would learn what a hunter can do with a scoped rifle.
 

26 X World Champs

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Fantasea said:
The answer is simple. It is a game and the miserable Arabs called Palestinians are clearly the pawns. Their lives are continually sacrificed in order to keep the pot boiling. If the folks in the Arab capitals who pull the strings wanted peace, they could order it to occur at 2 PM tomorrow, and it would.
Gee, more totally unsubstantiated BS....how shocking :shock:
Please enlighten us all in your usual method, by using broad generalization that have no basis in fact? Tell us about those "miserable Arabs"? Whose sacrificing them? What makes them "miserable"? C'mon, enlighten us! You've done it again, you've created a FANTASEA world for yourself....good job!
 

teacher

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26 X World Champs said:
Gee, more totally unsubstantiated BS....how shocking :shock:
Please enlighten us all in your usual method, by using broad generalization that have no basis in fact? Tell us about those "miserable Arabs"? Whose sacrificing them? What makes them "miserable"? C'mon, enlighten us! You've done it again, you've created a FANTASEA world for yourself....good job!

Various Arab countries giving money to families of suicide bombers work for you? You are correct about miserable though. They have not enough knowledge to be miserable. When you're only taught growing up martyrdom is the highest honor why I'd say they are downright giddy. All this debate fades to insignificance though because they target CHILDREN. If anyone can justify that I'll vote for Hillary.There are no shades of gray.
 

akyron

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shuamort said:
I voted other because I believe it shouldn't be up to the United States to get involved in the religious war over there. Let them figure it out amongst themselves.


They have not had a significant break in conflict in the middle east for 2800 years. What makes you think they can do so now?
The stagnant inflexible religion imposed upon them by clerical leaders prevents any resolution of conflict.
 

Arthur Fonzarelli

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I am posting a letter I wrote to the editor of my local newspaper. It's not really about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict alone. It's actually more about the Iraq War but I do touch briefly on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict as it applies to the Iraq War. It's a response to another letter I read. Sorry for not staying totally on subject. There's a lot more to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict than what most people want to admit. I would also say that goes for the Middle East in general.




Donna D. Stevens has an interesting point of view. Her story of going from “war advocate” to “peace advocate” may be compelling but doesn’t encapsulate all of us who still support the war effort. I’m a “justice advocate.” War is sometimes the means of that justice.

Like Miss Stevens, I too am a Veteran & have searched for answers via the internet, books & documentaries. I read the book “Holy War, Inc. (inside the secret world of Osama bin Laden)” by Peter L. Bergen; a former CNN reporter. I also came across The Foundation for the Defense of Democracies website (www.defenddemocracies.com). Very informative on the Middle East in general. The History Channel has provided some excellent documentaries about Saddam Hussein & the Middle East as well. Just to name a few sources.

I have read about the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. I learned that Palestinians were two groups; Arabs & Jews. Both being Palestinian living a nomadic lifestyle in the area that is Israel & Jordan today. It was called Palestine but wasn’t declared a nation. Israel was given to the Jews while Trans-Jordan (later to be shortened to Jordan) was given to the Arabs. Today’s Palestinians are the Arab refugees that didn’t leave Israel when they should have. Now, neither side wants them.

Saddam Hussein was instrumental in evoking the modern Arab movement against Israel. Some even suggest it was Saddam who led the charge against Anwar Sadat for signing the peace treaty with Israel that eventually led to Sadat’s assassination.


In 1998 President Clinton signed the Iraq Liberation Act. Section three of that legislation states: “It should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime.”

Also, like Miss Stevens, I’ve asked questions. Why Iraq now? Why was Iraq once a friend but now a foe? Why not Saudi-Arabia, Iran, Syria or Pakistan? Answers aren’t always clear, but that certainly doesn’t detract from the fact that war with Saddam’s Iraq was more than justifiable.
 

Shye

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ShamMol said:
btw-if we don't help, we won't get an outcome we like.
well its not always about us now isnt it?
 

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26 X World Champs said:
Originally Posted by Fantasea

The answer is simple. It is a game and the miserable Arabs called Palestinians are clearly the pawns. Their lives are continually sacrificed in order to keep the pot boiling. If the folks in the Arab capitals who pull the strings wanted peace, they could order it to occur at 2 PM tomorrow, and it would.
Gee, more totally unsubstantiated BS....how shocking
Please enlighten us all in your usual method, by using broad generalization that have no basis in fact? Tell us about those "miserable Arabs"? Whose sacrificing them? What makes them "miserable"? C'mon, enlighten us! You've done it again, you've created a FANTASEA world for yourself....good job!
Mocking seems to be your only talent.

Read this and tell me where the money, arms, logistics, and direction comes from that keeps the poverty stricken Palestinians raising hell in the 'hood all these years.

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_faq_palestine_un_resolutions.php
 

Soviet_Guy

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I just do not accept Israel as a well deserving country in the middle east here are my top 5 reasons:

5. Palestinians deserve their own country
4. Too ignorant, the land wasn't given to them by god, if it was, they wouldn't have lost it in the first place
3. They were pittied because of the Halocaust, this is why they got the land, out of sympathy
2. The land was given to them, they didn't gain it
1. The territory is and has for many centuries been controlled by muslims
 

Fantasea

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Soviet_Guy said:
I just do not accept Israel as a well deserving country in the middle east here are my top 5 reasons:

5. Palestinians deserve their own country
4. Too ignorant, the land wasn't given to them by god, if it was, they wouldn't have lost it in the first place
3. They were pittied because of the Halocaust, this is why they got the land, out of sympathy
2. The land was given to them, they didn't gain it
1. The territory is and has for many centuries been controlled by muslims
5. The Palestinians were given their own country. It is called Jordan. Those in question, today, didn't want to go there.

4. In 1948, a UN mandate created Israel.

3. Would it be better to let the Arabs fulfill their desire to finish what the Holocaust began?

2. The UN in determining where to resettle the displaced persons decided on the chosen location because the Jews has ancient ties to it.

1. And from whom did the Muslims take it?

Six million Israelis occupy a land area slightly smaller than the State of New Jersey, and about half of that is desert. As a country, it is minuscule; certainly tiny in comparison to its neighbors.

It is interesting to review the formation of the modern day countries in the Middle East. Virtually all are of fairly recent vintage. Some a bit older than modern day Israel, some not as old.

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_faq_palestine_other_countries.php
 

Arthur Fonzarelli

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Soviet_Guy said:
I just do not accept Israel as a well deserving country in the middle east here are my top 5 reasons:

5. Palestinians deserve their own country
4. Too ignorant, the land wasn't given to them by god, if it was, they wouldn't have lost it in the first place
3. They were pittied because of the Halocaust, this is why they got the land, out of sympathy
2. The land was given to them, they didn't gain it
1. The territory is and has for many centuries been controlled by muslims
Palestinian who? Jews or Arabs? Palestinians originally were nomads consisting of Jews & Arabs that lived in the area that is now Israel & Jordan. With that said & the assumption you mean Arab Palestinians they were given their own country. It was called Trans-Jordan & later shortened to Jordan. The folks you now call Palestinians are the Arabs who didn't move to Jordan when they should have. Now, neither side wants them. The reasons, or at least theories on the reasons, are another whole topic of discussion.
 

ludahai

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Soviet_Guy said:
Palestine was a country since the 1850s I believe, and most of them werer Muslim.
Wrong. There has NEVER been a country called Palestine. The area in question was a part of the Ottoman Empire until the end of World War I when the land that is now Israel, the territories, and Jordan were assigned as a League mandate to Britain while Lebanon and Syria were assigned as mandates to the French.
 

ludahai

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