Israel and Iran Share Most Negative Ratings in Global Poll

[Hatuey]

Well, they'd just drop walls on all the gays and *POOF* no more AIDS.

Basically. Anybody who still feels like they have AIDS and isn't gay will be told thats just the feeling you get when you're getting closer an closer to finding the lord. Literally.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Yeah? Like taking in new members? Like lifting 100 or 200 million people out of poverty?
Like having a union and neighborhood policy that ensure the economic safety and prosperity of 1.6 billion people?
Like being the biggest donator of foreign aid? Both in total and per capita.

No, its not. Its very relevant. The reason the US is more disliked than North Korea for example and in third spot behind Israel and Iran is because the only thing in their mind is terrorism when terrorism is such an irrelevant world issue.
Aids, diseases, famine, suffering and lack of world education, THATS the real issues.

It was the first post, above that Hatuey was referring to, not the theme of this particular thread. He has debated you on this point on several threads, and I believe, proved his position, Either way, take it up with him.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I'm just curious. Why is it that many of our European posters prefer to bash the US rather than discussing both the accolades and problems with the EU and their own countries? Seems to me, that on the rare occassions this has occurred, good, civil debate has happened. Just my :twocents:

 

[PeteEU]

I'm just curious. Why is it that many of our European posters prefer to bash the US rather than discussing both the accolades and problems with the EU and their own countries? Seems to me, that on the rare occassions this has occurred, good, civil debate has happened. Just my :twocents:

By all means lets discuss the good and bad about European countries and the EU. There is plenty of crap going on in Europe to fill several books, but often the issues dragged up by Americans on these boards are often non issues to Europeans, where as issues that Europeans find important, are often brushed away by Americans or ignored.

Also each time we do attempt to discuss things in a civil way concerning Europe it always turns in to a glory fest by a few Americans on "how good and great america are", how "they invented everything", "won WW2" and how "big a scum Europe is". If you look at the "European" threads on these boards they can be basicly catagorised into the following. Anti France, Anti Germany, arab/muslim sweaping through Europe/immigration. Once someone even tried to smear Europe on poverty, only for it to blow up in their own faces.. which I grant was funny.

How about a civil debate on the similar issues when concerning the US? A debate on poverty issues, healthcare or other issues that concern both sides? Never gonna happen as one side of the political spectrum continues to aviod issues by denial, ignore it and/or plant smoke screens or blaming others (usually Clinton, Democrats, France or Europeans or commies).

Also it seems to me that any mention of the US in a negative way what so ever, is instantly labeled "america bashing" regardless if the critical comments are valid. I admit that this can happen by us European's also, however often critical comments about Europe is based on ignorance and hatred, not about facts. We have seen this time and time again on immigration.

As for this subject, there is no shocker that Iran, Isreal and the US are in the top 3 spots. All 3 countries have pissed off enough people around the world with thier arrogance, double standards and ignorance over the last few decades, that it would be a shocker if they were not there. But no worries, pro Isreal people will just call everyone placing Isreal on top as "anti semetic" and that debate will be over before it even started. Americans, will as always ignore the poll as "some foriegn poll" that is clearly anti american.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

By all means lets discuss the good and bad about European countries and the EU. There is plenty of crap going on in Europe to fill several books, but often the issues dragged up by Americans on these boards are often non issues to Europeans, where as issues that Europeans find important, are often brushed away by Americans or ignored.

Also each time we do attempt to discuss things in a civil way concerning Europe it always turns in to a glory fest by a few Americans on "how good and great america are", how "they invented everything", "won WW2" and how "big a scum Europe is". If you look at the "European" threads on these boards they can be basicly catagorised into the following. Anti France, Anti Germany, arab/muslim sweaping through Europe/immigration. Once someone even tried to smear Europe on poverty, only for it to blow up in their own faces.. which I grant was funny.

How about a civil debate on the similar issues when concerning the US? A debate on poverty issues, healthcare or other issues that concern both sides? Never gonna happen as one side of the political spectrum continues to aviod issues by denial, ignore it and/or plant smoke screens or blaming others (usually Clinton, Democrats, France or Europeans or commies).

Also it seems to me that any mention of the US in a negative way what so ever, is instantly labeled "america bashing" regardless if the critical comments are valid. I admit that this can happen by us European's also, however often critical comments about Europe is based on ignorance and hatred, not about facts. We have seen this time and time again on immigration.

As for this subject, there is no shocker that Iran, Isreal and the US are in the top 3 spots. All 3 countries have pissed off enough people around the world with thier arrogance, double standards and ignorance over the last few decades, that it would be a shocker if they were not there. But no worries, pro Isreal people will just call everyone placing Isreal on top as "anti semetic" and that debate will be over before it even started. Americans, will as always ignore the poll as "some foriegn poll" that is clearly anti american.

These boards are dominated by Americans, hence the problems with bringing up issues that are primarily European in nature. Also your political systems are so different from ours, understanding them is often complicated. I had a good discussion with Maximus and Volker on one thread discussing EU involvement in the Congo and Indonesia. No American bashing and I learned a lot, both about these situations and about politics in European countries. I think both Americans and Europeans alike suffer from the overgeneralization syndrome. Too often each group characterizes all of the other group by the actions or beliefs of a few. I am not a Bush supporter, yet because I am an American, I am often, immediately put on the defense by Europeans for being arrogant, intolerant, and myopic. It is difficult to respond to these kinds of attacks especially when they are unwarranted. I'm certain some Europeans, here, feel similarly. Americans don't corner the market on closed-mindedness. I will speak for myself, and myself alone, here. I will be more open to European views and try to learn more of why European's have those views, rather than just dismissing them. I would like some of the Europeans on this board to attempt to do the same for America, rather than immediately dismissing them. A civil dialogue, rather than constant bashing could help increase understanding from both sides. I tried this once on the ME Forum about 2 months ago...to a miserable failure. People were too invested in their adversarial feelings. Perhaps things might be better in this situation. Or not, and everyone can go back to their single-minded attacks.

 

[ludahai]

I think we all agree that China look far more positive than the US.. Many polls indicate that a majority of the world population wants the EU to be the dominant world player.

I am sure also now after the Iraq scandals that more people would like China to become a bigger world player than the US, a failing military state.

People here in East Asia would beg to differ on that. China is the big threat to the rest of the region. It is the world's largest prison of journalists and lacks even basic religious rights. It claims territory of at least half a dozen nations and is increasing its military budget by nearly 18 percent this year.

Any poll that regards China more positively does little but show the ignorance of Europeans and other anti-American idiots.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

So let me start a dialogue like this. I'd like to ask some of the European posters here this question. According to the poll, the view of Britain has slipped, yet the view of France has gone up. What do you all perceive are some of the causes of this?

 

[PeteEU]

So let me start a dialogue like this. I'd like to ask some of the European posters here this question. According to the poll, the view of Britain has slipped, yet the view of France has gone up. What do you all perceive are some of the causes of this?

Easy, Iraq.

 

[ludahai]

Easy, Iraq.

So, the people of the world are opposed to the removal of a brutal dictator? Only shows that the rest of the world has its priorities in absolutely the WRONG place.

 

[PeteEU]

These boards are dominated by Americans, hence the problems with bringing up issues that are primarily European in nature.

I am fully aware of that, and hence the main reason European issues are not debated that much, and I fully accept it.

Also your political systems are so different from ours, understanding them is often complicated.

Not that different. Political party has a candidate who gets voted in .. same principles. Only real difference is the EU, which I admit, even most Europeans dont even understand (or want to understand), and there are quite a bit of missinformation out there about the EU. Both are democratic states, and both have issues (some greater than others) with maintaining those democracies.

One thing that is clear though, Americans hate "goverment" while Europeans see it as a needed evil at worst. If Americans could define what they hate about goverment, then we could at least debate that.

I had a good discussion with Maximus and Volker on one thread discussing EU involvement in the Congo and Indonesia. No American bashing and I learned a lot, both about these situations and about politics in European countries.

Good to hear. One reason is probally that there is nearly no US involvement in both situations and hence most dont give a damn

I think both Americans and Europeans alike suffer from the overgeneralization syndrome.

I agree fully. However I think that americans suffer much more than Europeans on these boards. We constantly see the use of "EU", Europe and other generalizations, when the person(s) are actually discussing situations in single nations in Europe (most often France).

But that does not mean we Europeans dont generalize on the US, just not the same if you ask me. Spain and Denmark are very different politically, culturally and socially, as is the UK and Greece, Italy and Sweden and so on. While there are differences between the states in the US, its no where near as different as in Europe. For one thing, with a few exceptions, all states in the US speak one language...

As for generalisations by Europeans on America.. care to name any just for the hell of it? We might not see them as generalisations off hand.

Too often each group characterizes all of the other group by the actions or beliefs of a few. I am not a Bush supporter, yet because I am an American, I am often, immediately put on the defense by Europeans for being arrogant, intolerant, and myopic. It is difficult to respond to these kinds of attacks especially when they are unwarranted.

I agree, however you have to understand the distrust and hatred among the peoples of the world towards Bush and his allies in the US political system and among the American people. And this is has all to do with Iraq and the so called War on Terror. I know Europeans are horrified and shocked when they see the bastion of democracy, rule of law and fairness, the USA, break basic human rights and international law, not to mention "bend" domestic laws, just because of a "war" that is not a conventional war.

Add to that, the usual double standard of American politics, both internationally and domestic, and well you got a nice breeding ground for issues.

Its natural for americans to rush in defense of its leaders (everyone does it), but when that defense is not warrented or justified, then frankly it shows a population that is brainwashed or at best dont give a rats arse.

I'm certain some Europeans, here, feel similarly. Americans don't corner the market on closed-mindedness.

Yes we do, but in our defense we do not blindly defend politicans just because we are at war, something Americans were guilty off after 9/11. If our politicans do something that we find is a problem, then they mostly pay the price politically if not legally. But then again, we have way more political parties to choose from here than in the US.

As for being closed-mindedness... yep we Europeans have that problem too, but often the debates focused on Europe on these boards dont even remotely touch the areas which Europeans ignore but should not ignore.

Things that Europeans ignore are among other things, power of unions and organized labour and issues of work mobility. These 2 alone account for a big part of the European economic issues, but are rarely touched in the debates in Europe.

I will speak for myself, and myself alone, here. I will be more open to European views and try to learn more of why European's have those views, rather than just dismissing them. I would like some of the Europeans on this board to attempt to do the same for America, rather than immediately dismissing them.

Then saddly you are one of the few.

I accept the views of Americans quite often, and even resepect them when those views are formed in a logical and informed manner. I am open to quite a few american opinions, as they are often not far from my own. I agreeed fully with the US policy of going after Al Q and Osama in Afganistan and I still support that action. I also agree about US policy of arresting terrorist suspects, I just dont agree on how they do it and what they do with said terrorist suspects. Often the overall idea I agree on, but the method of achieving said goal is often the sticky point.

I also dont accept illinformed and clearly biased chest bashing based on if its American or European. For example I do not respect people touting the American healthcare system as better than the European. An American system that has 40% uncovered, lower life expectancy and higher infant mortality than that of European nations. Unless those comments include some very serious self analysis on the American part, then they are nothing but flag waving and patriotic bullshit. The same goes for most issues on all sides.

I fully admit that Europe has its problems, and issues and I even admit that we sometimes ignore those problems and issues, but what we do not do, is go around taunting our systems as the "best" when they clearly are no where near that. For example is our healthcare systems the best? Hell no, but it is way better than the American version if you ask me.

A civil dialogue, rather than constant bashing could help increase understanding from both sides. I tried this once on the ME Forum about 2 months ago...to a miserable failure. People were too invested in their adversarial feelings. Perhaps things might be better in this situation. Or not, and everyone can go back to their single-minded attacks.

I agree.. ME is a whole other ball game, but saddly very similar in some ways.

 

[PeteEU]

So, the people of the world are opposed to the removal of a brutal dictator? Only shows that the rest of the world has its priorities in absolutely the WRONG place.

If that was the reason then I doubt that most people would be opposed, but that was NOT the reason that the war started.

No amount of spin or propoganda will change the fact that the war was sold on WMD and a tad later with links to Al Q, both which have since hence been proven total and utter lies.

Instead the real war against terror was put on the back burner and now we hear that Al Q and the Taliban (those that actually had something to do with 9/11) are regaining their power.

Do I want to get rid of dictators? Does most of the civilized world want to get rid of brutal dictators? Hell yea one would be stupid if one did not want to do such a thing, but then lets do it. ... no wait we support quite a few with money, weapons and political power.. ups, sorry another double standard.

And please note, I say WE, meaning the US and Europe.

 

[cherokee]

I hang my head in shame, and beg the great cherokee's forgiveness.

As you should.
The only thing that can erase this terrible mistake is, is...
A lawn ornament in the shape a working 155mm Howitzer.
Oh and vader wants a M61.....

 

[cherokee]

I hang my head in shame, and beg the great cherokee's forgiveness.

As you should.
The only thing that can erase this terrible mistake is, is...
A lawn ornament in the shape a working 155mm Howitzer.
Oh and vader wants a M61.....

 

[ludahai]

Do I want to get rid of dictators? Does most of the civilized world want to get rid of brutal dictators? Hell yea one would be stupid if one did not want to do such a thing, but then lets do it. ... no wait we support quite a few with money, weapons and political power.. ups, sorry another double standard.

And please note, I say WE, meaning the US and Europe.

You will NOT see me defend support for regimes like Saudi Arabia, so at least you can't accuse me of hypocrisy on that point. However, the US DOES put some pressure (though not enough in my opinion) on the KSA to reform.

If you look at the rhetoric, it was not ONLY WMDs that was the reason, though it was the focus of the LEGAL rationale for the invasion.

 

[PeteEU]

You will NOT see me defend support for regimes like Saudi Arabia, so at least you can't accuse me of hypocrisy on that point. However, the US DOES put some pressure (though not enough in my opinion) on the KSA to reform.

If you look at the rhetoric, it was not ONLY WMDs that was the reason, though it was the focus of the LEGAL rationale for the invasion.

The US puts no pressure on the Kingdom to reform. And why should it? Changing the status quo in KSA is not in the US interest, as they have no idea who will replace the royal familly, but they can guess that its a not a US friendly regime.

The war was sold as Saddam had or was close to having WMD and he was lieing about it. Pure and simple, that was the whole rationale for the war and the reason we went into Iraq..

Because of this Iraq was in breach of various agreements and UN resolutions (according to some). Just up to the war, the Bush administration added links to terror, namely Al Q and Osama to beef up the propoganda. Right after the war, the tone changed to "freeing the Iraqi people, getting rid of a mass murder and a dictor" and the WMD and terror links reasoning all of a sudden vanished.

This and what has followed this lie, has done more to hurt the US imiage around the world than anything else. Gitmo tarnished it quite a bit, as did the 2000 elections, but Iraq, what lead up to it and what followed it, has hurt the US image quite a lot.... like icing on the cake.

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

On the right issue? You do understand theres no sense in fixing hunger and a lack of education if the people we're trying to educate and feed will just end up under an islamofacist regime right? What has happened to the schools we've built in Iraq? They're getting bombed and shot at. hmmmm I wonder why. Could it be terrorism?

Nice thought, but how are we gonna do that if WE ALL GET KILLED BY PSYCHOS? As soon as we put a stop to Radical terrorists WHO WANT TO KILL US, then we can STAY ALIVE long enough to cure all that stuff if it's possible.

Do you honestly believe that if we just up and start focusing on other stuff then they won't worry about KILLING us?

I don't even know what to say.....sad, just sad.

Its obvious for me that you two have been systematically brainwashed by your government, alongside millions of others. To you the whole world is about terrorism or America, America or Iraq, North Korea, Iran, Russia and the Middle East. Besides that you are completely empty, there just isnt any other issues to you guys. What about F$$$*** Africa for example? Have your heard of Africa? Do you know whats going on there, except in Somalia? Have your heard of Southeast Asia? What about South America? I guess the whole world in your blind eyes are overrun by Islamist killers and terrorists. FU$$*** newsflash, its not. Terrorists attacked WTC in New York in 2001, London and Madrid. Besides that, terrorism is irrelevant compared to other issues facing the world.

Its seems very clear to me that American knowledge of anything other than America is limited to the places the US are at war with or have been at war with.. This is why every American still thinks Europe is a place of Hitler and Churchill, or that the whole Middle east are terrorists because of 20 guys, that Africa is Somalia, or that Asia is Vietnam or China.

Well, I got news for you guys.. WAKE THE FU** UP!!!

CAUSES OF DEATH
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0779147.html
List of causes of death by rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Terrorism isnt on any of those lists...

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

By all means lets discuss the good and bad about European countries and the EU. There is plenty of crap going on in Europe to fill several books, but often the issues dragged up by Americans on these boards are often non issues to Europeans, where as issues that Europeans find important, are often brushed away by Americans or ignored.

Also each time we do attempt to discuss things in a civil way concerning Europe it always turns in to a glory fest by a few Americans on "how good and great america are", how "they invented everything", "won WW2" and how "big a scum Europe is". If you look at the "European" threads on these boards they can be basicly catagorised into the following. Anti France, Anti Germany, arab/muslim sweaping through Europe/immigration. Once someone even tried to smear Europe on poverty, only for it to blow up in their own faces.. which I grant was funny.

How about a civil debate on the similar issues when concerning the US? A debate on poverty issues, healthcare or other issues that concern both sides? Never gonna happen as one side of the political spectrum continues to aviod issues by denial, ignore it and/or plant smoke screens or blaming others (usually Clinton, Democrats, France or Europeans or commies).

Also it seems to me that any mention of the US in a negative way what so ever, is instantly labeled "america bashing" regardless if the critical comments are valid. I admit that this can happen by us European's also, however often critical comments about Europe is based on ignorance and hatred, not about facts. We have seen this time and time again on immigration.

As for this subject, there is no shocker that Iran, Isreal and the US are in the top 3 spots. All 3 countries have pissed off enough people around the world with thier arrogance, double standards and ignorance over the last few decades, that it would be a shocker if they were not there. But no worries, pro Isreal people will just call everyone placing Isreal on top as "anti semetic" and that debate will be over before it even started. Americans, will as always ignore the poll as "some foriegn poll" that is clearly anti american.

Thank you, very nice posting, very to the point.

I will explain why this is so.. This forum is largely dominated by people who are indoctrinated with Bush government policies. It almost seem to me that they have been brainwashed in some way, and that the only thing on their mind is glorifying America and talking about how bad terrorism is, and how terrorism IS THE ONLY PROBLEM the world faces.
Maybe the Americans are trying to brainwash others into their way of thinking, I dont think that will work.
So yes, the Americans use labels, thats a very good and easy way to debate.
PeteEU, lets just call anyone who says anything about Europe that is not interesting or positive, "war mongering American".. Doesnt matter if hes Asian or American, we can call him that as an answer anyways. What says you?

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

People here in East Asia would beg to differ on that. China is the big threat to the rest of the region. It is the world's largest prison of journalists and lacks even basic religious rights. It claims territory of at least half a dozen nations and is increasing its military budget by nearly 18 percent this year.

Any poll that regards China more positively does little but show the ignorance of Europeans and other anti-American idiots.

Yeah, even if China have 10 million people in prison that get tortured daily, I still think its viewed more positive than the US.

ITs not anti-American.. How can you brand the whole world Anti American? Maybe its the Americans who are anti-world and the world dont like that, ever thought about that?

I am for Taiwan being a part of China btw.
I would like China to increase their military budget 100% next year, that would be fine. But I would like to see Taiwan peacefully become part of China again.

 

[WI Crippler]

Its obvious for me that you two have been systematically brainwashed by your government, alongside millions of others. To you the whole world is about terrorism or America, America or Iraq, North Korea, Iran, Russia and the Middle East. Besides that you are completely empty, there just isnt any other issues to you guys. What about F$$$*** Africa for example? Have your heard of Africa? Do you know whats going on there, except in Somalia? Have your heard of Southeast Asia? What about South America? I guess the whole world in your blind eyes are overrun by Islamist killers and terrorists. FU$$*** newsflash, its not. Terrorists attacked WTC in New York in 2001, London and Madrid. Besides that, terrorism is irrelevant compared to other issues facing the world.

Its seems very clear to me that American knowledge of anything other than America is limited to the places the US are at war with or have been at war with.. This is why every American still thinks Europe is a place of Hitler and Churchill, or that the whole Middle east are terrorists because of 20 guys, that Africa is Somalia, or that Asia is Vietnam or China.

Well, I got news for you guys.. WAKE THE FU** UP!!!

CAUSES OF DEATH
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0779147.html
List of causes of death by rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Terrorism isnt on any of those lists...

You are the one who needs to wake the **** up. I don't dismiss those other issues as not important. They most certainley are important, but when you say that terrorism is not an important issue in the world, you sir, are the one who looks like a moron. Take a look around the world over the last 30 years and tell me how you can honestly say the terrorism is not an important issue.

I have never dismissed the other problems in the world, but you painted me with the idiot american brush just because it would make you feel better about yourself. Terrorism is not irrelevant, it is very real just like all the other issues in the world.

What should countries do, while terrorists attack them?? Should they say, well we would like to combat terrorism, but we'd be better off if we spent the money on AIDS research?? You see terrorism is a completely relevant issue, that has nothing to do with other issues you speak of.

It may not be the most important issue to you, and thats fine. Its your opinion, but to completely dismiss it as a non-issue just seems idiotic, and blind. Look back a little further than 2001, and you will see that terrorism existed before then. The world did not start over at the turn of the millenium.

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

So let me start a dialogue like this. I'd like to ask some of the European posters here this question. According to the poll, the view of Britain has slipped, yet the view of France has gone up. What do you all perceive are some of the causes of this?

Its complicated. Iraq is certainly a part of it, but I think the state of the US and how other perceive the US as functioning is the most important issue.
I think most Europeans will start disliking the US when they see that a US government manipulates its people into thinking things that are untrue or just straight propaganda.
Europeans have seen this happen before in Germany, and don't want to see it happen in the US.

The US as it is now is a badly functioning nation(yes, its rich but still).. The current functioning of the US is like a bad personality disorder, almost schizophrenic. The US is so far to the right compared to the world, that the only fair thing the world can compare it to is nazi Germany. In European eyes even the democratic party is hanging on the right side.

There are real signs that the US population is slowly being brainwashed by the over powerful media, into thinking the world is only about the US and terrorism. I think the US population is in a spasm of shock after what happened on 911, and we are all just waiting for the US population to break free of that and start thinking again. What the US need is liberalization from fear.

I am sorry to sound so negative, but I think the US government took advantage of 911 and turned the US into something other nations mostly don't like. Its such a shame to think about, when the US was loved by most nations and people only 10 years ago. What did happen?

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

So, the people of the world are opposed to the removal of a brutal dictator? Only shows that the rest of the world has its priorities in absolutely the WRONG place.

Yeah, like what? any of these below instead of "removing a dictator".. Its amazing your way of thinking and how you can be proud of thinking that way.

List of causes of death by rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

I am fully aware of that, and hence the main reason European issues are not debated that much, and I fully accept it.



Not that different. Political party has a candidate who gets voted in .. same principles. Only real difference is the EU, which I admit, even most Europeans dont even understand (or want to understand), and there are quite a bit of missinformation out there about the EU. Both are democratic states, and both have issues (some greater than others) with maintaining those democracies.

One thing that is clear though, Americans hate "goverment" while Europeans see it as a needed evil at worst. If Americans could define what they hate about goverment, then we could at least debate that.



Good to hear. One reason is probally that there is nearly no US involvement in both situations and hence most dont give a damn



I agree fully. However I think that americans suffer much more than Europeans on these boards. We constantly see the use of "EU", Europe and other generalizations, when the person(s) are actually discussing situations in single nations in Europe (most often France).

But that does not mean we Europeans dont generalize on the US, just not the same if you ask me. Spain and Denmark are very different politically, culturally and socially, as is the UK and Greece, Italy and Sweden and so on. While there are differences between the states in the US, its no where near as different as in Europe. For one thing, with a few exceptions, all states in the US speak one language...

As for generalisations by Europeans on America.. care to name any just for the hell of it? We might not see them as generalisations off hand.



I agree, however you have to understand the distrust and hatred among the peoples of the world towards Bush and his allies in the US political system and among the American people. And this is has all to do with Iraq and the so called War on Terror. I know Europeans are horrified and shocked when they see the bastion of democracy, rule of law and fairness, the USA, break basic human rights and international law, not to mention "bend" domestic laws, just because of a "war" that is not a conventional war.

Add to that, the usual double standard of American politics, both internationally and domestic, and well you got a nice breeding ground for issues.

Its natural for americans to rush in defense of its leaders (everyone does it), but when that defense is not warrented or justified, then frankly it shows a population that is brainwashed or at best dont give a rats arse.



Yes we do, but in our defense we do not blindly defend politicans just because we are at war, something Americans were guilty off after 9/11. If our politicans do something that we find is a problem, then they mostly pay the price politically if not legally. But then again, we have way more political parties to choose from here than in the US.

As for being closed-mindedness... yep we Europeans have that problem too, but often the debates focused on Europe on these boards dont even remotely touch the areas which Europeans ignore but should not ignore.

Things that Europeans ignore are among other things, power of unions and organized labour and issues of work mobility. These 2 alone account for a big part of the European economic issues, but are rarely touched in the debates in Europe.



Then saddly you are one of the few.

I accept the views of Americans quite often, and even resepect them when those views are formed in a logical and informed manner. I am open to quite a few american opinions, as they are often not far from my own. I agreeed fully with the US policy of going after Al Q and Osama in Afganistan and I still support that action. I also agree about US policy of arresting terrorist suspects, I just dont agree on how they do it and what they do with said terrorist suspects. Often the overall idea I agree on, but the method of achieving said goal is often the sticky point.

I also dont accept illinformed and clearly biased chest bashing based on if its American or European. For example I do not respect people touting the American healthcare system as better than the European. An American system that has 40% uncovered, lower life expectancy and higher infant mortality than that of European nations. Unless those comments include some very serious self analysis on the American part, then they are nothing but flag waving and patriotic bullshit. The same goes for most issues on all sides.

I fully admit that Europe has its problems, and issues and I even admit that we sometimes ignore those problems and issues, but what we do not do, is go around taunting our systems as the "best" when they clearly are no where near that. For example is our healthcare systems the best? Hell no, but it is way better than the American version if you ask me.



I agree.. ME is a whole other ball game, but saddly very similar in some ways.

You are a wise man, you say all the things I should have said in one post that I dont have time to say because I always have to defend against Americans that use illogical way of thinking and unfair ways of debating to defend principles that deep inside are not their own. There seems to be a general lack of understanding about whats REALLY going on and how its affecting things.

Have you ever tried to debate with someone who has a personality disorder about his/her disorder? Its quite impossible.

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

You are the one who needs to wake the **** up. I don't dismiss those other issues as not important. They most certainley are important, but when you say that terrorism is not an important issue in the world, you sir, are the one who looks like a moron. Take a look around the world over the last 30 years and tell me how you can honestly say the terrorism is not an important issue.

I have never dismissed the other problems in the world, but you painted me with the idiot american brush just because it would make you feel better about yourself. Terrorism is not irrelevant, it is very real just like all the other issues in the world.

What should countries do, while terrorists attack them?? Should they say, well we would like to combat terrorism, but we'd be better off if we spent the money on AIDS research?? You see terrorism is a completely relevant issue, that has nothing to do with other issues you speak of.

It may not be the most important issue to you, and thats fine. Its your opinion, but to completely dismiss it as a non-issue just seems idiotic, and blind. Look back a little further than 2001, and you will see that terrorism existed before then. The world did not start over at the turn of the millenium.

Of course terrorism IS an issue, but its a minor issue that is far less important than ALL the other issues I mentioned. Its not worth spending more money on than all the other issues combined for example.

I know terrorism existed before, then we had about the right priority on it.

Again I have to stress that terrorism is an irrelevant issue compared to the other issues.

 

[WI Crippler]

I know terrorism existed before, then we had about the right priority on it.

Yeah worked out great didn't it??

Listen, I don't disagree that other issues in the world aren't important. They most certainley are, and if you go to the thread in the poll section about, "If you could change one thing by wishing it what would it be"

You can see I voted for education, as I think that is the most important issue, since proper education can lead to the solutions of all those issues you speak of, and terrorism.

But i can't minimize terrorisms importance either because it is a direct act of violence against people that is unacceptable, and if left unchecked.... well we have seen the results.

 

[RightOfCenter]

We've actually been discussing why European countries and the United States have such huge ideological differences. One of the main reasons Europeans are so inclined towards high taxes is because they see wealth as always inherited, due to centuries under aristocracies. The US didn't have visible aristocracies leading to more reliance on individualism. Just a little perspective on European-American differences.