Islam's Muhammed was a rapist (1 Viewer)

[SKILMATIC]

Today about 5min ago I just listened to the savage nation on 760 Talk Radio. Yep you heard correctly. I just heard today on the Savage nation that a gentlemen was telling Savage all about the Muslim religion and what it teaches. He also said a few things about Mohammed the founder of Islam.

First, he mentioned that it teaches when you die for the cause of Jihad that you go to the 7th heavens and you get 70 beautiful young virgins that cater to your every need. Which is a sexist ideology. Also ISLAM is and never will be applicable to the western world for our Protestantism and Catholicsism and even Atheism is far different and seen as evil to their beleifs. This is why they absolutely hate us.

Now the leader(Muhammed) was a pediphile rapist. He had said that it was factual in the history and the documentations of him. I also found a link when I did a google search which indellably solidifies his claims.

He had also done some extensive reasearch in identifying who was the real enemy as far as terrorism goes and he claimed that it is these radicals(which is true). However, he said that the number of radicals is far greater than we possibly imagined and they just reached an assylum in some of the S. American countries. Which leads me to beleive that we are doomed in concordance to our borders being open. Also he had said that there was a story that broadcasted on 60min that showed a documentary about factual evidence that sustained the meeting of Osama and Tehranian and Iranian officials in that they were giving Osama full authority to use 7 nuclear weapons agaisnt the US at the same time. aND ONCE AGAIN i RESEARCHED THIS ON GOOGLE AND ITS TRUE.

Heres the link

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/11/12/60minutes/main655407.shtml

I think unless we do something serious real soon we could be in lots of trouble. Does anyone have anymore info on these issues? I would also like to do some more research on this.

 

[DeeJayH]

I am sorry, but how long ago was it he lived
it was a different time with different cultural mores
however, there are plenty of countries that have children married off much earlier than in the US
not to mention the guy out west (US) who was recently charged with raping his wife because she is only 14

seems this threads title is just to enrage muslims

 

[SKILMATIC]

I am sorry, but how long ago was it he lived
it was a different time with different cultural mores
however, there are plenty of countries that have children married off much earlier than in the US
not to mention the guy out west (US) who was recently charged with raping his wife because she is only 14

seems this threads title is just to enrage muslims

No actually this is conclusive to what their ideologies are today.

And you call becasue if culture says its ok that its ok? So becasue Mohammed took a 6yr girl as his wife then had 5EX with her before she was 9 is ok becasue culture in those days told him it was? You need some help.

So I guess slavery was ok becasue culture told us it was. So I guess all balcks deserve to be enslaved becasue culture in those days was ok. You really need some serious help if thats what you beleive.

A 14yr old is different. At that age she knows what she is doing. PLus if the marrage was mutual then theres no shame in it. But if the marrage wasnt mutual then yes thats wrong.

But a 6yr old girl? C'mon deejay. Use your head dude.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Ok, First. What are you doing listening to Savage Nation? Savage is about one notch away from Hitler in terms of reason and tolerance. He is definitely the worst hate monger on the radio.

Secondly, have you ever read the Old Testament?

Bill Moyers, a Christian (Southern Baptist in his case) wrote an excellent article on the history of violence in both the Koran and the Old Testament. By the way, many of the stories in the Old Testament, also are in the Koran.

Here is an excerpt from that article where he talks about the violence and atrocities in the Old Testament:

….Now transport those current scenes from our newspapers and television back to the first Book of the Bible - the Book of Genesis. They bring to life what we rarely imagine so graphically when we read of the great flood that devastated the known world. If you read the Bible as literally true, as fundamentalists do, this flood was ordered by God. "And God said to Noah, 'I have determined to make an end of all flesh... behold, I will destroy them with the earth." (6:5-13). "I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall die." (6:17-19) Noah and his family are the only humans spared - they were, after all, God's chosen. But for everyone else: "... the waters prevailed so mightily... that all the high mountains....were covered....And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, birds, cattle, beasts...and every man; everything on the dry land in whose nostrils was the breath of life, died...." (7:17-23).

The flood is merely Act One. Read on: This God first "hardens the heart of Pharaoh" to make sure the Egyptian ruler will not be moved by the plea of Moses to let his people go. Then because Pharaoh's heart is hardened, God turns the Nile into blood so people cannot drink its water and will suffer from thirst. Not satisfied with the results, God sends swarms of locusts and flies to torture them; rains hail and fire and thunder on them destroys the trees and plants of the field until nothing green remains; orders every first-born child to be slaughtered, from the first-born of Pharaoh right on down to "the first-born of the maidservant behind the mill." An equal-murderous God, you might say. The massacre continues until "there is not a house where one was not dead." While the Egyptian families mourn their dead, God orders Moses to loot from their houses all their gold and silver and clothing. Finally, God's thirst for blood is satisfied, God pauses to rest - and boasts: "I have made sport of the Egyptians."

Violence: the sport of God. God, the progenitor of shock and awe.

And that's just Act II. As the story unfolds women and children are hacked to death on God's order; unborn infants are ripped from their mother's wombs; cities are leveled - their women killed if they have had sex, the virgins taken at God's command for the pleasure of his holy warriors. When his holy warriors spare the lives of 50,000 captives God is furious and sends Moses back to rebuke them and tell them to finish the job. One tribe after another falls to God-ordered genocide: the Hittites, the Girgashites, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Jebusites - names so ancient they have disappeared into the mists as fathers and mothers and brothers and sisters, grandparents and grandchildren, infants in arms, shepherds, threshers, carpenters, merchants, housewives - living human beings, flesh and blood: "And when the Lord your God gives them over to you, and you defeat them; then you must utterly destroy them; you shall make no covenant with them, and show no mercy to them...(and) your eyes shall not pity them."

So it is written - in the Holy Bible.

Source: http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0909-36.htm

My point being that the God of the Old Testament and Allah (which is essentially the same God, Allah simply means the one God), are pretty much equally violent.

 

[Missouri Mule]

I'm a bit more concerned about those 700 heads he had lopped off at Medina. As I recall his last wife was nine years old. At the least this would be statutory rape under today's laws.



"According to Muhammad’s sacralized biography by Ibn Ishaq, Muhammad himself sanctioned the massacre of the Qurayza, a vanquished Jewish tribe. He appointed an "arbiter" who soon rendered this concise verdict: the men were to be put to death, the women and children sold into slavery, the spoils to be divided among the Muslims. Muhammad ratified this judgment stating that it was a decree of God pronounced from above the Seven Heavens. Thus some 600 to 900 men from the Qurayza were lead on Muhammad’s order to the Market of Medina. Trenches were dug and the men were beheaded, and their decapitated corpses buried in the trenches while Muhammad watched in attendance. Women and children were sold into slavery, a number of them being distributed as gifts among Muhammad’s companions, and Muhammad chose one of the Qurayza women (Rayhana) for himself. The Qurayza’s property and other possessions (including weapons) were also divided up as additional "booty" among the Muslims, to support further jihad campaigns."

http://knowislam.info/drupal/beheadings?PHPSESSID=21d52187251d0be7ed773bce093d093e

 

[Kandahar]

No actually this is conclusive to what their ideologies are today.

And you call becasue if culture says its ok that its ok? So becasue Mohammed took a 6yr girl as his wife then had 5EX with her before she was 9 is ok becasue culture in those days told him it was? You need some help.

So I guess slavery was ok becasue culture told us it was. So I guess all balcks deserve to be enslaved becasue culture in those days was ok. You really need some serious help if thats what you beleive.

A 14yr old is different. At that age she knows what she is doing. PLus if the marrage was mutual then theres no shame in it. But if the marrage wasnt mutual then yes thats wrong.

But a 6yr old girl? C'mon deejay. Use your head dude.

Maybe some of the things YOU do will be considered horribly immoral and taboo in 1,400 years. I guess that automatically discredits everything you stand for and makes you a horrible human being.

 

[SKILMATIC]

Ok, First. What are you doing listening to Savage Nation? Savage is about one notch away from Hitler in terms of reason and tolerance. He is definitely the worst hate monger on the radio.

On the contrary, the ACLU is buddy . Savage is a godsend to this country. I suppose dan rather is better huh? :lol:

Secondly, have you ever read the Old Testament?

I only had to read the KJV OT like 7times and the KJV NT like 12 times.

My point being that the God of the Old Testament and Allah (which is essentially the same God, Allah simply means the one God), are pretty much equally violent.

Ok so whats your point? Lets say that christianities God and the Muslims god are the same. Well why are the muslims having a profound problem with interpreting what their god wants and the chirstians arent? If they are the same god then they certainly act different. So this would conclude that its not the same god. Unless you can prove otherwise.

I'm a bit more concerned about those 700 heads he had lopped off at Medina. As I recall his last wife was nine years old. At the least this would be statutory rape under today's laws.



"According to Muhammad’s sacralized biography by Ibn Ishaq, Muhammad himself sanctioned the massacre of the Qurayza, a vanquished Jewish tribe. He appointed an "arbiter" who soon rendered this concise verdict: the men were to be put to death, the women and children sold into slavery, the spoils to be divided among the Muslims. Muhammad ratified this judgment stating that it was a decree of God pronounced from above the Seven Heavens. Thus some 600 to 900 men from the Qurayza were lead on Muhammad’s order to the Market of Medina. Trenches were dug and the men were beheaded, and their decapitated corpses buried in the trenches while Muhammad watched in attendance. Women and children were sold into slavery, a number of them being distributed as gifts among Muhammad’s companions, and Muhammad chose one of the Qurayza women (Rayhana) for himself. The Qurayza’s property and other possessions (including weapons) were also divided up as additional "booty" among the Muslims, to support further jihad campaigns."

Yes very well put. This is a problem with this religion as its founding father is a whoremonger and a tyranical warmonger as well.

I dont even call this a religion. I call this a cult. I mean look at the way they live.

 

[SKILMATIC]

Maybe some of the things YOU do will be considered horribly immoral and taboo in 1,400 years. I guess that automatically discredits everything you stand for and makes you a horrible human being.

Well I sleep with girls well around my age and are very aware of what they are doing. I also am not a genocidial murderer. And I dont proclaim that God says to kill thousands of innocents. So I think my chances are pretty good. Besides if we dont eleiminate this problem off the face of the earth then we wont see another 1400yrs anyway.

 

[AK_Conservative]

Ok, First. What are you doing listening to Savage Nation? Savage is about one notch away from Hitler in terms of reason and tolerance. He is definitely the worst hate monger on the radio.

Secondly, have you ever read the Old Testament?

Bill Moyers, a Christian (Southern Baptist in his case) wrote an excellent article on the history of violence in both the Koran and the Old Testament. By the way, many of the stories in the Old Testament, also are in the Koran.

Here is an excerpt from that article where he talks about the violence and atrocities in the Old Testament:

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Source: http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0909-36.htm

My point being that the God of the Old Testament and Allah (which is essentially the same God, Allah simply means the one God), are pretty much equally violent.

Savage is far from hitler my friend. Savage is not a racist, he is a realist! Though, many issues i do not agree on with him, practically most, he is entertaining to listen to and the factual statements he brings forth are actually fact, unlike some other liberal talk show hosts! Though, his opinion on the matter is a tad bit more right than me! To say he is a hate mongerer is absolutely absurd. Give me an example to back up your statement on that!

Secondly, i have studied a bit of religous history and know the historians perspective about Allah how it derives from the old testimate (which is true) and is the same God! Somehow now adays, it is hard for me to see this, in the past yes, but now, i dont think many radical muslims think this!

Answer some of these questions for me! Why do muslims condem the jews? why do they sometimes reffer as "My god is not your god"... ? Why are they out for a religious war?

Though i know this is not a religious war.. dont misinterpret that! I am talking about the radical muslims.. The ones that you see on tv!

 

[ALiberalModerate]

On the contrary, the ACLU is buddy . Savage is a godsend to this country. I suppose dan rather is better huh? :lol:



I only had to read the KJV OT like 7times and the KJV NT like 12 times.



Ok so whats your point? Lets say that christianities God and the Muslims god are the same. Well why are the muslims having a profound problem with interpreting what their god wants and the chirstians arent? If they are the same god then they certainly act different. So this would conclude that its not the same god. Unless you can prove otherwise.



Yes very well put. This is a problem with this religion as its founding father is a whoremonger and a tyranical warmonger as well.

I don’t even call this a religion. I call this a cult. I mean look at the way they live.

• Savage is nothing but a hatemonger. How could any true Christian view him and his vile hate filled rants as a “godsend”?

• The KJV of the Bible is not the most accurate translation so maybe that’s why you don’t seem to get that if you pick and choose your verses, and especially if things are taken out of context, the God of the Old Testament is just as violent, genocidal, and warmongering as the God of the Koran is.

For example, say right now some young Muslims are listening to some hatemongering Islamic version of Michael Savage and that hatemonger has an “expert on Christianity” explaining to his audience of loyal Muslim listeners how vile, unconscionable, and violent the Christian God is.

He would probably say things like:

“This God of the Christian Americans is a morally repugnant warmongering God. They believe that he has given them Iraq and their book of Deuteronomy command them in Deuteronomy Chapter 7 to:

“When the LORD your God brings you into the land that you are entering to take possession of it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites, the Girgashites, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations more numerous and mightier than yourselves, 2and when the LORD your God gives them over to you, and you defeat them, then you must devote them to complete destruction.[a] You shall make no covenant with them and show no mercy to them.”

See, they are to show no mercy to the Iraqis, they are to completely destroy them. Their God is a rapist and a pedophile as well, in Numbers Chapter 31 starting at verse 7, their Christian God instructs them:

“14And Moses was angry with the officers of the army, the commanders of thousands and the commanders of hundreds, who had come from service in the war. 15Moses said to them, "Have you let all the women live? 16Behold, these, on Balaam's advice, caused the people of Israel to act treacherously against the LORD in the incident of Peor, and so the plague came among the congregation of the LORD. 17Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. 18But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him keep alive for yourselves.”

So now after hearing that, those Muslims would think that Christianity is an evil cult bent upon murder, destruction and the rape of children.

Are you kind of getting my point here?

 

[SKILMATIC]

Savage is nothing but a hatemonger. How could any true Christian view him and his vile hate filled rants as a “godsend”?

Again show us proof. Then show us proof that the founder of islam is a peaceful loving person. Im waiting ...

The KJV of the Bible is not the most accurate translation so maybe that’s why you don’t seem to get that if you pick and choose your verses, and especially if things are taken out of context, the God of the Old Testament is just as violent, genocidal, and warmongering as the God of the Koran is.

You are seriously an idiot you know that? The KJV is the most accurate translation of the word of God except from Latin and Hebrew. Whish is what it was written in. What? You think the book of Morons is a better translation? How about the NKJV? Its obvious to me you know nothing of theology and the Bible.

For example, say right now some young Muslims are listening to some hatemongering Islamic version of Michael Savage and that hatemonger has an “expert on Christianity” explaining to his audience of loyal Muslim listeners how vile, unconscionable, and violent the Christian God is.

Again please prove that what you say? I havent heard one thing that even remotely resembles this. Please give me eviddenciary support other than opinionated bologna rhetoric.

“When the LORD your God brings you into the land that you are entering to take possession of it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites, the Girgashites, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations more numerous and mightier than yourselves, 2and when the LORD your God gives them over to you, and you defeat them, then you must devote them to complete destruction.[a] You shall make no covenant with them and show no mercy to them.”

Do you even know what this stories context is? So I suppose soddom and Gamora was a ok way to live life too huh? Thats what the ACLU would defend then the same ACLU would smite the people who are trying to erradicate this evil form the world.

So now after hearing that, those Muslims would think that Christianity is an evil cult bent upon murder, destruction and the rape of children.

No becasue they would be smart enough to read the whole story you nimrod! I wonder why they were fighting them? Did you get that exerpt? Or are you still a nimrod?

Are you kind of getting my point here?

You made a point? When did you make this? I dont see such a thing created in your illegitimate rubbish. Becasue you dont have an understanding of what the Bible says and what its complete context meaning is. Do you know who Moses even is? Do you know why he is in charge? Do you know anything?

 

[DeeJayH]

Do you know anything?

give me a second to google everything :rofl

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Again show us proof. Then show us proof that the founder of islam is a peaceful loving person. Im waiting ...

Ok, as far as Savage goes, lets just look at one of his comments to a caller that got his show cancelled on MSNBC:

“Oh, so you're one of those sodomites. You should only get AIDS and die, you pig, how's that? Why don't you see if you can sue me, you pig. You got nothing better to do than to put me down, you piece of garbage, you got nothing better to do today, go eat a sausage and choke on it. Get trichinosis. Now do we have another nice caller here who's busy because he didn't have a nice night in the bathhouse who's angry at me today? Put another, put another sodomite on....no more calls? I don't care about these bums, they mean nothing to me. They're all sausages."

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Savage_(commentator)

But I guess your right, he is not a hatemonger.

Did I ever say that the Mohamed was a peaceful loving person? I only pointed out that you cannot get an accurate picture of Christianity by picking and choosing a few verses out of the Bible, you also cannot get an accurate picture of Islam by picking and choosing a few verses out of the Koran.

You are seriously an idiot you know that?

That is very Christian of you to call someone who has an alternative viewpoint an idiot.

The KJV is the most accurate translation of the word of God except from Latin and Hebrew.

I am sorry, but you are misinformed.
The KJV translators had access to only a few ancient manuscripts. Since their day many older manuscripts have been discovered, resulting in a more reliable Greek and Hebrew text. I
Today, the majority of theologians consider the most accurate English translations to be THE NEW AMERICAN STANDARD BIBLE and THE NEW AMERICAN BIBLE with The New American Standard Bible being closer in wording to the original text, and The New American Bible being more readable (The New American Bible is approved for as both a Catholic and Protestant Bible). Of course, there are several different Bibles in publication that are all very accurate and have varying degrees of ease of readability.

Whish is what it was written in. What? You think the book of Morons is a better translation?

Of course not. The Book of Mormon is not even a bible translation, but rather it is a book written by Joseph Smith. As I am not a Mormon, I consider it to be pure heresy.

How about the NKJV? Its obvious to me you know nothing of theology and the Bible.

Once again, as I have shown earlier, I think you are misinformed.

Again please prove that what you say? I havent heard one thing that even remotely resembles this. Please give me eviddenciary support other than opinionated bologna rhetoric.

I did prove what I said. I posted passages out of the Bible that a non-Christian could easily construe from that our God is an advocate of Child Rape and Murder. Which only proved my point that one cannot judge the beliefs of a religion by just taking verses here and there out of their religious texts out of context.

Do you even know what this stories context is? So I suppose soddom and Gamora was a ok way to live life too huh? Thats what the ACLU would defend then the same ACLU would smite the people who are trying to erradicate this evil form the world.

Well, I suppose that if the people of Sodom and Gomorrah had a constitution that granted them a right to privacy and freedom of religion, then the ACLU would defend the people of Sodom and Gomorrah in a court of law if the government of Sodom or Gomorrah tried to invade the privacy of their bedrooms and interfere with what consenting adults chose to do, or if the government tried to compel them to adhere to a specific religious belief. Of course, I don’t guess it would be called the ACLU. Instead it would be called the SGCLU, or the Sodom and Gomorrah Civil Liberties Union.

No becasue they would be smart enough to read the whole story you nimrod! I wonder why they were fighting them? Did you get that exerpt? Or are you still a nimrod?

Once again another nice example of being a good Christian by calling someone who disagrees with you a nimrod. If you will notice, my whole point as I stated above was to only provide passages and not context as to show how a non-Christian could by just looking at those passages conclude that the Christian God is a God who sanctions murder and child rape. See, that is the problem with just taking things out of context and my point in doing so was to show how Savage probably did just the same thing with Islam.

I don’t see the point of addressing the rest of your post as it seemed to only be mean spirited.

I have found some examples of peaceful teaching from the Koran though:

"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, and do not transgress; for Allah loveth not transgressors." (Surah 2, Verse 190).

"But if they cease (fighting you), Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." (Surah 2, Verse 192).

"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah: for He is the One that Heareth and Knoweth (all things)." (Surah 8, Verse 61).

"The prohibited month, for the prohibited month, and so for all things prohibited, there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear Allah, and know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves." (Surah 2, Verse 194).

" ... and let not the hatred of some people in (once) shutting you out of the Sacred Mosque lead you to transgression (and hostility on your part). Help ye one another in righteousness and piety, but help ye not one another in sin and rancour: fear Allah: for Allah is strict in punishment." (Surah 5, Verse 2).

"Nor can Goodness and Evil be equal. Repel (Evil) with what is better: then will he between whom and thee was hatred become as it were thy friend and intimate!" (Surah 41, Verse 34).

"O ye who believe! stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest ye swerve, and if ye distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do." (Surah 4, Verse 135).

"God advocates justice, charity, and regarding the relatives. And He forbids evil, vice, and transgression. He enlightens you, that you may take heed." (Surah 16, Verse 90).

"And if ye do punish them, punish them no worse than they punished you: but if ye show patience, that is indeed the best (course) for those who are patient." (Surah 16, Verse 126).

 

[Deegan]

I don't know about this, but I recently learned we have been in a war of sorts, with Muslims since the late 1700's. Turkish Muslims would over take our ships, kill and enslave our people, and explain that they were only doing their duty, to kill all infidels. Certainly rings true today, but I would suspect that is a tad more difficult today, then it was then.

 

[Missouri Mule]

• Savage is nothing but a hatemonger. How could any true Christian view him and his vile hate filled rants as a “godsend”?

• The KJV of the Bible is not the most accurate translation so maybe that’s why you don’t seem to get that if you pick and choose your verses, and especially if things are taken out of context, the God of the Old Testament is just as violent, genocidal, and warmongering as the God of the Koran is.

For example, say right now some young Muslims are listening to some hatemongering Islamic version of Michael Savage and that hatemonger has an “expert on Christianity” explaining to his audience of loyal Muslim listeners how vile, unconscionable, and violent the Christian God is.

He would probably say things like:

“This God of the Christian Americans is a morally repugnant warmongering God. They believe that he has given them Iraq and their book of Deuteronomy command them in Deuteronomy Chapter 7 to:

“When the LORD your God brings you into the land that you are entering to take possession of it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites, the Girgashites, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations more numerous and mightier than yourselves, 2and when the LORD your God gives them over to you, and you defeat them, then you must devote them to complete destruction.[a] You shall make no covenant with them and show no mercy to them.”

See, they are to show no mercy to the Iraqis, they are to completely destroy them. Their God is a rapist and a pedophile as well, in Numbers Chapter 31 starting at verse 7, their Christian God instructs them:

“14And Moses was angry with the officers of the army, the commanders of thousands and the commanders of hundreds, who had come from service in the war. 15Moses said to them, "Have you let all the women live? 16Behold, these, on Balaam's advice, caused the people of Israel to act treacherously against the LORD in the incident of Peor, and so the plague came among the congregation of the LORD. 17Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. 18But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him keep alive for yourselves.”

So now after hearing that, those Muslims would think that Christianity is an evil cult bent upon murder, destruction and the rape of children.

Are you kind of getting my point here?

Just so we are clear here, who exactly where the inhabitants that the Israelites commanded to exterminate? What were their ethnic origins? You've brought up this subject and I would appreciate knowing what it is you actually know about it.

I don't get your equation with Christians. I can't recall anything in the New Testament ordering anyone to commit mass murder. Perhaps I have overlooked it. Can you point it out for me, please?

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Just so we are clear here, who exactly where the inhabitants that the Israelites commanded to exterminate? What were their ethnic origins? You've brought up this subject and I would appreciate knowing what it is you actually know about it.

I don't get your equation with Christians. I can't recall anything in the New Testament ordering anyone to commit mass murder. Perhaps I have overlooked it. Can you point it out for me, please?

As I have pointed out before, as Christians we cannot judge Islam simply by a few verses that may or may not be in context out of the Koran. Just like Muslims would incorrectly judge us simply by a few verses that may or may not be in context out of the Bible.

The Israelites were commanded to exterminate the inhabitants of the Promised Land. Basically to slaughter the infidels. They were later commanded to kill everyone, even the male children and to take the virgin female children for themselves.

If a Muslim were to judge us on that, he would think we had a morally repugnant and vile religion.

This equates to Christianity because Christians of course recognize both the New and the Old Testaments as the inspired word of God. Your right of course, the God in the New Testament is a God of Peace.

 

[SKILMATIC]

Ok, as far as Savage goes, lets just look at one of his comments to a caller that got his show cancelled on MSNBC:

“Oh, so you're one of those sodomites. You should only get AIDS and die, you pig, how's that? Why don't you see if you can sue me, you pig. You got nothing better to do than to put me down, you piece of garbage, you got nothing better to do today, go eat a sausage and choke on it. Get trichinosis. Now do we have another nice caller here who's busy because he didn't have a nice night in the bathhouse who's angry at me today? Put another, put another sodomite on....no more calls? I don't care about these bums, they mean nothing to me. They're all sausages."

Yep thats him alright. And would you be so kind to put the quote that was said by the caller? O no you wouldnt casue that would just about degrade your whole argument now wouldnt it? What you fail to realize is there is always to sides to the argument. The caller was a moronic aryian homosexual and you want to give harbor and tolerance to this individual who was the caller? So becasue Mike got upset, rightfully so, you are going to side with the person who is wrong on every issue than with someone who is right that got a little upset. You make tons of sense.

But I guess your right, he is not a hatemonger.

Your right hes not. But mohammed was a whore and a warmonger. How about them apples?

That is very Christian of you to call someone who has an alternative viewpoint an idiot.

Actually its not a point of view its rubbish as I o solemly put it so therefor its idiotic and I called the person who exclaimed the idiocy and rubbish an idiot so theres no unchrisitan thing about telling the truth. If I called you a genius I would be lying and then I would be unchristian like. You see the connection here?

Today, the majority of theologians consider the most accurate English translations to be THE NEW AMERICAN STANDARD BIBLE and THE NEW AMERICAN BIBLE with The New American Standard Bible being closer in wording to the original text, and The New American Bible being more readable (The New American Bible is approved for as both a Catholic and Protestant Bible). Of course, there are several different Bibles in publication that are all very accurate and have varying degrees of ease of readability.

Which is also known as the NKJV you idiot. Or as I refer to it as the laymans version of the KJV. Seriously, do you know anything about the Bible? Yes the NKJV is easier to read becasue of laymans who cant read or comprehend it need a more juvenile version of the KJV. But basically its the same thing as the KJV except with laymans words.

Of course not. The Book of Mormon is not even a bible translation, but rather it is a book written by Joseph Smith. As I am not a Mormon, I consider it to be pure heresy

At least we agree on something.

Once again, as I have shown earlier, I think you are misinformed.

UMMM... no becasue if you knew anything of the Bible you would know the NASV is the same version as the NKJV. I dare you to get a copy of each and read each and you will see the books are the same.

I did prove what I said. I posted passages out of the Bible that a non-Christian could easily construe from that our God is an advocate of Child Rape and Murder. Which only proved my point that one cannot judge the beliefs of a religion by just taking verses here and there out of their religious texts out of context.

Again they were out of context. You must learn the whole story. BTW where does it say in the Bible that God is a condoner of rape? I beleive he destroyed soddom and gomora did he not? Not to mention it never says in the Bible that God condones the killings of innocents. Only those who are sinners that havent repented. Theres a difference. You seriously need to stop spelling lies to everyone. Becasue thats not what the Bible even means.

Well, I suppose that if the people of Sodom and Gomorrah had a constitution that granted them a right to privacy and freedom of religion, then the ACLU would defend the people of Sodom and Gomorrah in a court of law if the government of Sodom or Gomorrah tried to invade the privacy of their bedrooms and interfere with what consenting adults chose to do, or if the government tried to compel them to adhere to a specific religious belief. Of course, I don’t guess it would be called the ACLU. Instead it would be called the SGCLU, or the Sodom and Gomorrah Civil Liberties Union.

This is why liberalism is a mental disorder. Uh oh now I am a hate monger :rofl

If you will notice, my whole point as I stated above was to only provide passages and not context as to show how a non-Christian could by just looking at those passages conclude that the Christian God is a God who sanctions murder and child rape. See, that is the problem with just taking things out of context and my point in doing so was to show how Savage probably did just the same thing with Islam

Ok well again why is it that islam has a more profound problem with it than christians do? I think its becasue we can understand CONTEXT you nimrod! Something the Muslims may not be able to do not to mention their Quran is different. So yes people can take things out of context but thats not the issue here the issue is why islam has a more profound problem doing this?

 

[MSgt]

There's a whole lot of nastiness surrounding Muhammed. As far as "judging" their religion, we aren't the ones condemning all of the world's religions and calling them infidels. They are judging us.

 

[SKILMATIC]

There's a whole lot of nastiness surrounding Muhammed. As far as "judging" their religion, we aren't the ones condemning all of the world's religions and calling them infidels. They are judging us.

Exactly, to say we are judging them while they judge us by runing commercial Boeing 737 into world trade centers and call it acts of allah and call us evil is kinda idiotic.

I think the ultimate act of judgemnt was 9/11. O so you mean that wasnt an act of judgement? So what was it then? A experiment to test the integrity of the buildings? :rofl

So now who are the judgers of religion and ways of life? There goes that rediculous argument.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Yep thats him alright. And would you be so kind to put the quote that was said by the caller? O no you wouldnt casue that would just about degrade your whole argument now wouldnt it? What you fail to realize is there is always to sides to the argument. The caller was a moronic aryian homosexual and you want to give harbor and tolerance to this individual who was the caller? So becasue Mike got upset, rightfully so, you are going to side with the person who is wrong on every issue than with someone who is right that got a little upset. You make tons of sense.

I don’t know, I can understand for someone to get upset, but myself, I don’t tell people that I hope they get aids and die and I don’t refer to Gay men as sodomites. In fact, I don’t think any decent individual would react the way Savage did regardless of the situation.

Your right hes not. But mohammed was a whore and a warmonger. How about them apples?

I was referring to Savage not being a hate monger, and I was being sarcastic.

Actually its not a point of view its rubbish as I o solemly put it so therefor its idiotic and I called the person who exclaimed the idiocy and rubbish an idiot so theres no unchrisitan thing about telling the truth. If I called you a genius I would be lying and then I would be unchristian like. You see the connection here?

No I don’t. For one, the Christian thing to do is to know how to actually spell the word Christian, and to have enough respect and etiquette to always capitalize it. Secondly, if you are going to call someone an idiot in writing, you would be more credible in your assertion if you actually used correct grammar and spelling in your writing. Finally, even if you believed that someone was an idiot, the Christian thing to do is to find a way to convey your belief without being insulting or derogatory towards the individual that you felt was an idiot.

Which is also known as the NKJV you idiot. Or as I refer to it as the laymans version of the KJV.

I am sorry, but once again you are misinformed.

The New King James Version is simply an easier to read revision of the original King James Version.

The New American Standard Bible is a revision of the 1901 American Standard Bible. The New American Standard Bible is a Bible written in modern English that utilized the best original Greek and Hebrew translations available. It is the most scripturally accurate of all of the English translations, yet because it strives so much for accuracy, is the least easy to read of all of the modern English translations.

Seriously, do you know anything about the Bible? Yes the NKJV is easier to read becasue of laymans who cant read or comprehend it need a more juvenile version of the KJV. But basically its the same thing as the KJV except with laymans words.

Yes, I do know something about the Bible. I have read it. You are right in that the NKJV is nothing but a modern English version of the KJV, but as I pointed out, there are more accurate English translations available now than either the NKJV or the KJV because we have many more ancient manuscripts and older manuscripts of the Greek and Hebrew, newer bibles are more accurate.

UMMM... no becasue if you knew anything of the Bible you would know the NASV is the same version as the NKJV. I dare you to get a copy of each and read each and you will see the books are the same.

I have already addressed this. However for comparison purposes. I am accepting you dare and posting an example verse from both the NKJV and the NASB. For purposes of comparison I am using John 3:16 and Luke 2:1

NKJV John 3:16 – “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.”

NASB John 3:16 – “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.”

NKJV Luke 2:1 – “And it came to pass in those days that a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be registered.”

NASB Luke 2:1- “Now in those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus, that a census be taken of all the inhabited earth.”

Notice that the wording is different. The reason for this is that is of course because they are not the same version.

Again they were out of context. You must learn the whole story.

I took them out of context because you were basing your beliefs on Islam on random verses and passages. So to prove a point, I posted random verses and passages out of context and pointed out how a Muslim could very easily get the idea that our Christian God was a vile and morally repugnant God. It is a concept known as empathy, or trying to see something the way someone else from a different culture might see it.

BTW where does it say in the Bible that God is a condoner of rape?

I posted this passage before, you must have missed it. At any rate. In Numbers Chapter 31 starting at verse 1, there is the following passage:

Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying,"Take full vengeance for the sons of Israel on the Midianites; afterward you will be gathered to your people." Moses spoke to the people, saying, "Arm men from among you for the war, that they may go against Midian to execute the LORD'S vengeance on Midian. "A thousand from each tribe of all the tribes of Israel you shall send to the war." So there were furnished from the thousands of Israel, a thousand from each tribe, twelve thousand armed for war. Moses sent them, a thousand from each tribe, to the war, and Phinehas the son of Eleazar the priest, to the war with them, and the holy vessels and the trumpets for the alarm in his hand. So they made war against Midian, just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed every male. They killed the kings of Midian along with the rest of their slain: Evi and Rekem and Zur and Hur and Reba, the five kings of Midian; they also killed Balaam the son of Beor with the sword. The sons of Israel captured the women of Midian and their little ones; and all their cattle and all their flocks and all their goods they plundered. Then they burned all their cities where they lived and all their camps with fire. They took all the spoil and all the prey, both of man and of beast. They brought the captives and the prey and the spoil to Moses, and to Eleazar the priest and to the congregation of the sons of Israel, to the camp at the plains of Moab, which are by the Jordan opposite Jericho. Moses and Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the congregation went out to meet them outside the camp. Moses was angry with the officers of the army, the captains of thousands and the captains of hundreds, who had come from service in the war. And Moses said to them, "Have you spared all the women? Behold, these caused the sons of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, so the plague was among the congregation of the LORD. Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. "But all the girls who have not known man intimately, spare for yourselves.

The Israelites are commanded to kill all the women, every man, every male child, and every girl who is not a virgin. The virgin girls, they are to take and have as spoils of war.

So basically, the Israelites are told to keep and rape every virgin girl.

Now, if a Muslim were just to read that passage, and do as you are and judge us on a few selected passages instead of the Bible in its entirety, they would think that we worshiped a morally repugnant and murderous God who sanctioned the rape of girls.

Do you see my point, do you see why it is not a good idea to try to judge Islam on what someone on Michael Savage’s show tells his listeners?

I beleive he destroyed soddom and gomora did he not? Not to mention it never says in the Bible that God condones the killings of innocents. Only those who are sinners that havent repented. Theres a difference. You seriously need to stop spelling lies to everyone. Becasue thats not what the Bible even means.

As I have pointed out in every post I have made on this subject, I am not trying to convey the true meaning of the Bible, but just to offer some perspective of how a non-Christian or non-Jew might judge us if they were only to look at a few choice passages in scripture.

This is why liberalism is a mental disorder. Uh oh now I am a hate monger :rofl

If I were so intolerant of other views that I referred to Conservatism as a mental disorder, other more reasonable people would have good cause to doubt the soundness of my mental faculties.

Ok well again why is it that islam has a more profound problem with it than christians do? I think its becasue we can understand CONTEXT you nimrod! Something the Muslims may not be able to do not to mention their Quran is different. So yes people can take things out of context but thats not the issue here the issue is why islam has a more profound problem doing this?

Throughout history Christians have murdered countless people in the name of God. They were wrong to do so of course, but just the same they did. Right now, one there are more militant Muslims than Christians, but historically, Muslims have been no more violent than Christians. Moreover, militant Islam is but a very small percentage of the some 1 billion Muslims worldwide.

 

[Middleground]

There's a whole lot of nastiness surrounding Muhammed. As far as "judging" their religion, we aren't the ones condemning all of the world's religions and calling them infidels. They are judging us.

And what do you call what Skilmatic is doing?

People interpret the Bible -- just as I'm sure the Koran -- in different ways. It's really amazing how the same exact words can be construed much differently. I can relate that what Southern Democrat is saying, and I can picture a hate mongering Muslim DJ spewing his venom over the airways of the Middle East, reading passages from the Bible and presenting his own ugly interpretation of God's Book. You'll have some Muslim listeners who'll think "Wow, Christians are evil," while you'll have others who'll think "this DJ is a lying hate mongering jerk." The ones who believe the garbage become hateful of all Christians and perhaps maybe, even hateful enough to join Al-Qaeda. But maybe they'll just simply hate Christans because their book and God are evil.

Now flip it around, and replace the Middle-Eastern DJ with Savage. Now replace the Muslim listeners with American listeners. Same thing happens.

If Skilmatic is so concerned about how much Mohammad was supposedly a rapist and murderer, perhaps he should read the Koran to see for himself and not simply take Savage's word like they are... ahem... scripture.

GySgt, I don't always agree with you, but I respect your mostly thoughtful posts. Unlike Skilmatic -- who I think is a lost cause -- I think that you'll understand (but perhaps not agree) my point of view here.

 

[MSgt]

Why is this argument turning into what the Bible say's and what the Koran say's? The issue is that the age old, anchient practices of the Bible are just that - "old and Anchient." The barbaric passages of the Koran are being practiced today in 2005.

 

[MSgt]

And what do you call what Skilmatic is doing?

People interpret the Bible -- just as I'm sure the Koran -- in different ways. It's really amazing how the same exact words can be construed much differently. I can relate that what Southern Democrat is saying, and I can picture a hate mongering Muslim DJ spewing his venom over the airways of the Middle East, reading passages from the Bible and presenting his own ugly interpretation of God's Book. You'll have some Muslim listeners who'll think "Wow, Christians are evil," while you'll have others who'll think "this DJ is a lying hate mongering jerk." The ones who believe the garbage become hateful of all Christians and perhaps maybe, even hateful enough to join Al-Qaeda. But maybe they'll just simply hate Christans because their book and God are evil.

Now flip it around, and replace the Middle-Eastern DJ with Savage. Now replace the Muslim listeners with American listeners. Same thing happens.

If Skilmatic is so concerned about how much Mohammad was supposedly a rapist and murderer, perhaps he should read the Koran to see for himself and not simply take Savage's word like they are... ahem... scripture.

GySgt, I don't always agree with you, but I respect your mostly thoughtful posts. Unlike Skilmatic -- who I think is a lost cause -- I think that you'll understand (but perhaps not agree) my point of view here.

Skilmatic is an individual who has an opinion. He is not a civilization of millions of people who hoist "martyrs" upon their shoulders that are subscribing to this blasphemous form of Islam in the Middle East. The Hindu and Christian world does not fall out into the streets and cheer at Muslim tradgedies.

 

[SKILMATIC]

don’t know, I can understand for someone to get upset, but myself, I don’t tell people that I hope they get aids and die and I don’t refer to Gay men as sodomites. In fact, I don’t think any decent individual would react the way Savage did regardless of the situation.

Well that may be but soddomy means homosexuality so your wrong once again. Seriously, do you even know anything on this debate? Or are you posing like you are educated on these matters? Deceny is defined different in every individual. So take that case somewhere else.

I was referring to Savage not being a hate monger, and I was being sarcastic.

I know you were and I wasnt.

No I don’t. For one, the Christian thing to do is to know how to actually spell the word Christian, and to have enough respect and etiquette to always capitalize it

Its funny to hear every liberal results to the same argument when they have none which is to make fun of grammar and speling. Sorry to break it to ya but this has nothing to do with the debate at hand.

Finally, even if you believed that someone was an idiot, the Christian thing to do is to find a way to convey your belief without being insulting or derogatory towards the individual that you felt was an idiot.

Why? I say how I feel you dont like it too bad! Idiot isnt a bad word. So theres no sin in it. Still want to debate on that matter?

I am sorry, but once again you are misinformed.

The New King James Version is simply an easier to read revision of the original King James Version.

The New American Standard Bible is a revision of the 1901 American Standard Bible. The New American Standard Bible is a Bible written in modern English that utilized the best original Greek and Hebrew translations available. It is the most scripturally accurate of all of the English translations, yet because it strives so much for accuracy, is the least easy to read of all of the modern English translations.

Again I have basically said this in different words but you are still wrong. They are the same.

I have already addressed this. However for comparison purposes. I am accepting you dare and posting an example verse from both the NKJV and the NASB. For purposes of comparison I am using John 3:16 and Luke 2:1

NKJV John 3:16 – “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.”

NASB John 3:16 – “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.”

NKJV Luke 2:1 – “And it came to pass in those days that a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be registered.”

NASB Luke 2:1- “Now in those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus, that a census be taken of all the inhabited earth.”

Notice that the wording is different. The reason for this is that is of course because they are not the same version.

HAHAHHA you just proved my point. They are the same. Where in those verses are the meanings different?

I took them out of context because you were basing your beliefs on Islam on random verses and passages. So to prove a point, I posted random verses and passages out of context and pointed out how a Muslim could very easily get the idea that our Christian God was a vile and morally repugnant God. It is a concept known as empathy, or trying to see something the way someone else from a different culture might see it

Ok enough sacarsm aside. Are you seriously slow? Becasue this debate isnt about how muslims could take our scripture out of context but why they have a profound problem with taking their own out of context. This has nothing to do with our scriptures but their own. Why cant you understand simple common sense? Where in this thread was the mention of christianity or our Bible mentioned other than when you brought it up? Your making your own argument.


You know what? I am talking to a wall. Forget it. Until you know what the talking points are just cease to even post in this thread anymore.

 

[SKILMATIC]

People interpret the Bible -- just as I'm sure the Koran -- in different ways. It's really amazing how the same exact words can be construed much differently. I can relate that what Southern Democrat is saying, and I can picture a hate mongering Muslim DJ spewing his venom over the airways of the Middle East, reading passages from the Bible and presenting his own ugly interpretation of God's Book. You'll have some Muslim listeners who'll think "Wow, Christians are evil," while you'll have others who'll think "this DJ is a lying hate mongering jerk." The ones who believe the garbage become hateful of all Christians and perhaps maybe, even hateful enough to join Al-Qaeda. But maybe they'll just simply hate Christans because their book and God are evil.

But the problem with this whole argument is that you dont see christians these days running commercial boeing 737 into building and caling it an act and a praise for God. So that argument although valid in its foundation isnt necassary to this thread becasue thats not what this thread is about. Its about why muslims have a profound problem with the interpretatio of their own word. Please explain this to me?