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So, registration/regulation. For whom? Just imams, or for all religious preachers/leaders. Which department of state would regulate them? How would you police it?That would be most of them. I'm for some kind of registration/regulation.
For whom in prison? Imams, or chaplains in general?But again, I see no reason for them in prisons.
Same argument about black Americans and the prison population. You on the side that argues the fault lies entirely with the ethnic minority?In addition, Muslims make up 4.5% of the population, but 15% of prisoners. Is that the actions of sensible religious types?
~ Same argument about black Americans and the prison population. You on the side that argues the fault lies entirely with the ethnic minority?
With respect Andy, the reasons and background for the black American prison population having such high incarceration rates is different from the reasons why the muslim population of the UK has such high incarceration rates. There is no similar 300 year history of systematic oppression, removal of ordinary civil rights and denigration and hehumanisation leaving muslims with no choice to better themselves or raise themselves up from the gutter / ghetto etc.
No but racism, discrimination and poverty do make for similarities..
Not enough to disguise that Buddhists, Hindus and Sikhs also have foreign sounding names and originate from similar areas of the world and don't end up in prison to the same rate.
Well there are many factors involved here.
For example, what is the relative population size between Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims. What type of nationality are they originally, and where they come from in said country. Age is also important.
For example, those "Muslims" in UK prisons..what nationalities are they originally? I suspect a lot of them are Nigerians. The family unit among Indians/Pakistanis usually keep people out of criminal activity, which explains why Buddhists, Hindus and Sikhs are not relatively not so much involved in crime.
last year the top 10 overseas nationalities included inmates from two predominantly Muslim countries: 522 from Pakistan, 417 from Somalia.
With respect Andy, the reasons and background for the black American prison population having such high incarceration rates is different from the reasons why the muslim population of the UK has such high incarceration rates. There is no similar 300 year history of systematic oppression, removal of ordinary civil rights and denigration and hehumanisation leaving muslims with no choice to better themselves or raise themselves up from the gutter / ghetto etc.
You're assuming that the Muslim prison population is somehow distinct from the black population. As Pete points out, many of those Muslim prisoners very probably are of Afro-Caribbean descent.
~ I assume ~ Worryingly reductionist analysis IMHO.
I take it you didn't read the Govt link I posted?
Maybe I missed something because I didn't see the stats for Muslim prisoners broken down by ethnicity.
It didn't do that but it showed the greatest proportion of muslim prisoners were from Pakistan and Somalia - in response to Pete assuming the majority of muslim prisoners were from Nigeria.
A lot of black prisoners have been converting to islam in prison (statement courtesy Dianne Abbot) so there is some conflation in the figures.
So, registration/regulation. For whom? Just imams, or for all religious preachers/leaders. Which department of state would regulate them? How would you police it?
That's it, let everyone suffer, for the few. Remind me, how many converted and radicalized Christians have gone on to blow themselves up, or run over British soldiers in cold blood?
For whom in prison? Imams, or chaplains in general?
You have information on Chaplains, discussing a syllabus that advocates Jihad?
Same argument about black Americans and the prison population. You on the side that argues the fault lies entirely with the ethnic minority?
Seriously! Bore off....Next we'll get "not all Muslims are terrorists" etc.
That's it, let everyone suffer, for the few. Remind me, how many converted and radicalized Christians have gone on to blow themselves up, or run over British soldiers in cold blood?
You have information on Chaplains, discussing a syllabus that advocates Jihad?
I see, so it's just Muslim clerics you want to control. Yeah, that's going to work.
Seriously! Bore off....Next we'll get "not all Muslims are terrorists" etc.
I know I couldn't convince you of that point, so I wouldn't even try. :roll:
Quite. And I'm fairly sure Somalis qualify as African. Conflating religious affiliation and ethnicity, as I said before, is worryingly reductionist.
I see, so it's just Muslim clerics you want to control. Yeah, that's going to work.
I know I couldn't convince you of that point, so I wouldn't even try. :roll:
So, you have nothing. No surprise.
If you want to ban freedom of religion...you better be prepared to ban it for all religions.
Sadly, it seems like every society needs at least one group of people that it is considered OK to hate; there is a need for someone to be against in order for society to be together. It's been out of fashion to hate black people for some time now and it's gotten increasingly difficult to hate gay people without backlash. So, we've moved on. Now it's cool to hate muslims and trans people.
It's the dumbest bigotry possible. You're far more likely to be struck twice in a row by lightning than to be killed by terrorism, and only the tiniest fraction of the 1,500,000 muslims are actually terrorists. Meanwhile, there hasn't been a single case of a person posing as a trans person to rape someone in a bathroom.
Meanwhile, Americans are 70% Christian and commit 1,400,000 violent crimes a year, meaning that on average Christians in America alone commit 980,000 violent crimes yearly on average. Are we told to be afraid of Christians? Of course not. Because that's different; those proposing broad anti-muslim policies and espousing anti-muslim beliefs will never apply the same logic to anyone perceived as being part of their group. Cowardly hypocrisy, imo, but there you go. Humanity.
Wonder who the next target will be....
I see, so it's just Muslim clerics you want to control. Yeah, that's going to work.
I know I couldn't convince you of that point, so I wouldn't even try. :roll:
Hell, you won't even admit that some Muslims are terrorists and a hell of a lot more Muslims support them.
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