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Islam course in prisons

DA60 said:
There is nothing wrong with teaching Islam in prisons.

99.9+% of the over 1 billion Muslims in the world are NOT radical.

Lots of horrible things have been done by Christians...do we stop teaching that as well?


It is not religions that cause people to do horrible things...it's people that are screwed up or monumentally stupid that do horrible things - the religion is just the excuse.

Sane, well-adjusted people do not do horrible things no matter what religion they are.
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Sadly, it seems like every society needs at least one group of people that it is considered OK to hate; there is a need for someone to be against in order for society to be together. It's been out of fashion to hate black people for some time now and it's gotten increasingly difficult to hate gay people without backlash. So, we've moved on. Now it's cool to hate muslims and trans people.

It's the dumbest bigotry possible. You're far more likely to be struck twice in a row by lightning than to be killed by terrorism, and only the tiniest fraction of the 1,500,000 muslims are actually terrorists. Meanwhile, there hasn't been a single case of a person posing as a trans person to rape someone in a bathroom.

Meanwhile, Americans are 70% Christian and commit 1,400,000 violent crimes a year, meaning that on average Christians in America alone commit 980,000 violent crimes yearly on average. Are we told to be afraid of Christians? Of course not. Because that's different; those proposing broad anti-muslim policies and espousing anti-muslim beliefs will never apply the same logic to anyone perceived as being part of their group. Cowardly hypocrisy, imo, but there you go. Humanity.

Wonder who the next target will be....
 
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11Bravo said:
Someone has to tell you what you wrote. You can't seem to remember. Fair enough of the father comment. I wouldn't raise someone to make those mistakes.
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I know what I wrote, and I know that you are reduced to just whining. So, knock it off, you are obsessing and making personal attacks.
 
Mr Person said:
Sadly, it seems like every society needs at least one group of people that it is considered OK to hate. It's been out of fashion to hate black people for some time now and it's gotten increasingly difficult to hate gay people without backlash. So, we've moved on. Now it's cool to hate muslims and trans people.

Wonder who the next target will be....
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My girlfriend's ex husband belongs to a group of evangelical christians that go and stand outside of mosques and try to convert muslims, he is with a group in London now doing that. What incredible arrogance...imagine if muslims went out to their church and did the same thing?

Religion Poisons Everything.
 
gunner said:
BS. There is no need of Imans in the UK prison system, period. What constitutes a liberal Iman is a minefield, in itself. As it stands, Imans are not regulated in the UK.
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Disagree the first part, agree the second. I read the article then watched the BBC report just now on 10.00 news: the problem seems to be the people who wrote it put greater emphasis on the external jihad element which apparently leads to radicalisation.

It was another imam who raised the alarm, an imam who works with counter radicalisation agencies and he has strongly suggested the i2i document be pulled. What it seems is that in desperation to have a document which would counter radicalisation, the wrong people were used to write the guide.

What this report suggests to me is that we get the right imams, pulling all out is not the answer - you end up with unregulated imams or forces at work. That means we have to regulate in some way, monitor who writes advisory documents and watch what is happening. Non civil sharia is also being practiced in prison with physical punishment - clearly outside the arbitration law that governs sharia: that means (to me) pull all imams out and reintroduce imams who are prepared to comply with UK rules and laws only.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
~ that means (to me) pull all imams out and reintroduce imams who are prepared to comply with UK rules and laws only.
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Where it took me a lot longer to say that, it appears to be a pertinent (perhaps the most pertinent) step.
 
beefheart said:
I know what I wrote, and I know that you are reduced to just whining. So, knock it off, you are obsessing and making personal attacks.
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Seems to me that the wiser one needs to let this go so that the one not so blessed gets bored.

That in my perception would be you (the wiser one), alone on account of you having actually added something of pertinence to the topic.

:mrgreen:
 
beefheart said:
My girlfriend's ex husband belongs to a group of evangelical christians that go and stand outside of mosques and try to convert muslims, he is with a group in London now doing that. What incredible arrogance...imagine if muslims went out to their church and did the same thing?

Religion Poisons Everything.
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I'd add this caveat: the more orthodox or "fundamenalist" a religious belief, the greater the probability that it will poison everything.

I don't practice myself, but I was raised in light reformed judiasm, meanwhile the other side of my family was unitarian christian (other than one relative who became a Roman Catholic); the sense I get from my personal experience and general observations is that the more "reformed" a religion, the more positive the overall result on its followers.

It's the nutters who always want to impose their One True Way on the rest of the world....
 
Mr Person said:
Sadly, it seems like every society needs at least one group of people that it is considered OK to hate; there is a need for someone to be against in order for society to be together. It's been out of fashion to hate black people for some time now and it's gotten increasingly difficult to hate gay people without backlash. So, we've moved on. Now it's cool to hate muslims and trans people.

It's the dumbest bigotry possible. You're far more likely to be struck twice in a row by lightning than to be killed by terrorism, and only the tiniest fraction of the 1,500,000 muslims are actually terrorists. Meanwhile, there hasn't been a single case of a person posing as a trans person to rape someone in a bathroom.

Meanwhile, Americans are 70% Christian and commit 1,400,000 violent crimes a year, meaning that on average Christians in America alone commit 980,000 violent crimes yearly on average. Are we told to be afraid of Christians? Of course not. Because that's different; those proposing broad anti-muslim policies and espousing anti-muslim beliefs will never apply the same logic to anyone perceived as being part of their group. Cowardly hypocrisy, imo, but there you go. Humanity.

Wonder who the next target will be....
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My vote for - Post of the Week, so far.
 
Chagos said:
Seems to me that the wiser one needs to let this go so that the one not so blessed gets bored.

That in my perception would be you (the wiser one), alone on account of you having actually added something of pertinence to the topic.

:mrgreen:
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I am done with him...but when he makes personal attacks...no. :)
 
Chagos said:
Where it took me a lot longer to say that, it appears to be a pertinent (perhaps the most pertinent) step.
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Not for me to call you a windba....... :mrgreen:

I hadn't read your post so please accept my apology and impertinence for not seeing it. I usually skim posts and come back for a more in depth read later. (Does that let me off the hook?)
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Not for me to call you a windba....... :mrgreen:

I hadn't read your post so please accept my apology and impertinence for not seeing it. I usually skim posts and come back for a more in depth read later. (Does that let me off the hook?)
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Ok, but just this time.:2razz:
 
DA60 said:
There is nothing wrong with teaching Islam in prisons.

99.9+% of the over 1 billion Muslims in the world are NOT radical.

Lots of horrible things have been done by Christians...do we stop teaching that as well?
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The discussion is about happenings in Britain. The current head of the British state is also head of the Church of England, and the majority of Britons are Christian. There's no reason to stop teaching Christianity in Britain, since there's no existential threat to the British state from Christian militants. Instead Christianity has shaped Britain from its institutions upwards.

On the contrary, Muslims are a small minority in Britain yet have started exerting a threatening influence on the state of affairs. There's no need to indulge in letting impressionable people in prisons be swayed towards a foreign religion, funded by the taxpayer.

By the way, certain Christian sects and rebels have been suppressed at times in British history when they posed a threat to public order, which is why so many Puritans and Quakers fled to the New World.
 
gunner said:
As it stands, Imans are not regulated in the UK.
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Not regulated by whom? By government? Do you seriously want the government to approve the appointment of priests, imams, rabbis etc?
 
Andalublue said:
Not regulated by whom? By government? Do you seriously want the government to approve the appointment of priests, imams, rabbis etc?
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Well, on the premise that approval is not substituted for appointment, I'd have no problem with it.

Not much different from monitoring that Shariah courts' judgments comply with the law of the land. Or diocesan courts and Beth Din.
 
Andalublue said:
Not regulated by whom? By government? Do you seriously want the government to approve the appointment of priests, imams, rabbis etc?
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And there lies the problem. It is a fact that most of the issues to do with hate preaching come from self appointed 'men of god'. What's your solution to hate preachers?
 
gunner said:
And there lies the problem. It is a fact that most of the issues to do with hate preaching come from self appointed 'men of god'. What's your solution to hate preachers?
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Stop avoiding the question. Do you want government to control the appointment of religious leaders?

The solution to hate preaching in prisons is to ensure that those discovered to be engaging in it are not allowed to enter the prison and preach hate. Saying "You cannot enter the prison" is a very far cry from government controlling religious appointments.
 
Andalublue said:
Stop avoiding the question. Do you want government to control the appointment of religious leaders?

The solution to hate preaching in prisons is to ensure that those discovered to be engaging in it are not allowed to enter the prison and preach hate. Saying "You cannot enter the prison" is a very far cry from government controlling religious appointments.
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How do determine a hate preacher?
 
gunner said:
How do determine a hate preacher?
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Erm, those found to be preaching hate?

So, why not have a stab at answering your own question, since you are clearly unwilling or incapable of answering mine? What's your solution to hate preachers?
 
Andalublue said:
Erm, those found to be preaching hate?

So, why not have a stab at answering your own question, since you are clearly unwilling or incapable of answering mine? What's your solution to hate preachers?
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That would be most of them. I'm for some kind of registration/regulation. But again, I see no reason for them in prisons. In addition, Muslims make up 4.5% of the population, but 15% of prisoners. Is that the actions of sensible religious types?
 
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