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Islam course in prisons

That would be most of them. I'm for some kind of registration/regulation.
So, registration/regulation. For whom? Just imams, or for all religious preachers/leaders. Which department of state would regulate them? How would you police it?

But again, I see no reason for them in prisons.
For whom in prison? Imams, or chaplains in general?

In addition, Muslims make up 4.5% of the population, but 15% of prisoners. Is that the actions of sensible religious types?
Same argument about black Americans and the prison population. You on the side that argues the fault lies entirely with the ethnic minority?
 
~ Same argument about black Americans and the prison population. You on the side that argues the fault lies entirely with the ethnic minority?

With respect Andy, the reasons and background for the black American prison population having such high incarceration rates is different from the reasons why the muslim population of the UK has such high incarceration rates. There is no similar 300 year history of systematic oppression, removal of ordinary civil rights and denigration and hehumanisation leaving muslims with no choice to better themselves or raise themselves up from the gutter / ghetto etc.
 
With respect Andy, the reasons and background for the black American prison population having such high incarceration rates is different from the reasons why the muslim population of the UK has such high incarceration rates. There is no similar 300 year history of systematic oppression, removal of ordinary civil rights and denigration and hehumanisation leaving muslims with no choice to better themselves or raise themselves up from the gutter / ghetto etc.

No but racism, discrimination and poverty do make for similarities..
 
No but racism, discrimination and poverty do make for similarities..

Not enough to disguise that Buddhists, Hindus and Sikhs also have foreign sounding names and originate from similar areas of the world and don't end up in prison to the same rate.
 
Not enough to disguise that Buddhists, Hindus and Sikhs also have foreign sounding names and originate from similar areas of the world and don't end up in prison to the same rate.

Well there are many factors involved here.

For example, what is the relative population size between Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims. What type of nationality are they originally, and where they come from in said country. Age is also important.

For example, those "Muslims" in UK prisons..what nationalities are they originally? I suspect a lot of them are Nigerians. The family unit among Indians/Pakistanis usually keep people out of criminal activity, which explains why Buddhists, Hindus and Sikhs are not relatively not so much involved in crime.
 
Well there are many factors involved here.

For example, what is the relative population size between Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims. What type of nationality are they originally, and where they come from in said country. Age is also important.

For example, those "Muslims" in UK prisons..what nationalities are they originally? I suspect a lot of them are Nigerians. The family unit among Indians/Pakistanis usually keep people out of criminal activity, which explains why Buddhists, Hindus and Sikhs are not relatively not so much involved in crime.

Why the surge in Muslim prisoners? - BBC News

last year the top 10 overseas nationalities included inmates from two predominantly Muslim countries: 522 from Pakistan, 417 from Somalia.

More Buddhists than Hindus and the number of Jews in prison nearly doubled (but still quite low) but there is more detail below

House of Commons Hansard Written Answers for 26 Mar 2014 (pt 0002)
 
With respect Andy, the reasons and background for the black American prison population having such high incarceration rates is different from the reasons why the muslim population of the UK has such high incarceration rates. There is no similar 300 year history of systematic oppression, removal of ordinary civil rights and denigration and hehumanisation leaving muslims with no choice to better themselves or raise themselves up from the gutter / ghetto etc.

You're assuming that the Muslim prison population is somehow distinct from the black population. As Pete points out, many of those Muslim prisoners very probably are of Afro-Caribbean descent. I assume Gunner and you are positing the idea that it is people's religion that is driving their criminality and not their social circumstances of alienation, discrimination, historical marginalisation etc. Worryingly reductionist analysis IMHO.
 
You're assuming that the Muslim prison population is somehow distinct from the black population. As Pete points out, many of those Muslim prisoners very probably are of Afro-Caribbean descent.

I take it you didn't read the Govt link I posted?

~ I assume ~ Worryingly reductionist analysis IMHO.

The pertinent words Andy. Never assume. Alienation, discrimination, historical marginalisation are certainly a part of why but that doesn't explain the figures for Christian / Buddhist / black and the figures for general black population also covers illegals held in temporary confinement before hopefully being deported.
 
Maybe I missed something because I didn't see the stats for Muslim prisoners broken down by ethnicity.

It didn't do that but it showed the greatest proportion of muslim prisoners were from Pakistan and Somalia - in response to Pete assuming the majority of muslim prisoners were from Nigeria.
A lot of black prisoners have been converting to islam in prison (statement courtesy Dianne Abbot) so there is some conflation in the figures.
 
It didn't do that but it showed the greatest proportion of muslim prisoners were from Pakistan and Somalia - in response to Pete assuming the majority of muslim prisoners were from Nigeria.
A lot of black prisoners have been converting to islam in prison (statement courtesy Dianne Abbot) so there is some conflation in the figures.

Quite. And I'm fairly sure Somalis qualify as African. Conflating religious affiliation and ethnicity, as I said before, is worryingly reductionist.
 
So, registration/regulation. For whom? Just imams, or for all religious preachers/leaders. Which department of state would regulate them? How would you police it?

That's it, let everyone suffer, for the few. Remind me, how many converted and radicalized Christians have gone on to blow themselves up, or run over British soldiers in cold blood?

For whom in prison? Imams, or chaplains in general?

You have information on Chaplains, discussing a syllabus that advocates Jihad?

Same argument about black Americans and the prison population. You on the side that argues the fault lies entirely with the ethnic minority?

Seriously! Bore off....Next we'll get "not all Muslims are terrorists" etc.
 
That's it, let everyone suffer, for the few. Remind me, how many converted and radicalized Christians have gone on to blow themselves up, or run over British soldiers in cold blood?



You have information on Chaplains, discussing a syllabus that advocates Jihad?

I see, so it's just Muslim clerics you want to control. Yeah, that's going to work.

Seriously! Bore off....Next we'll get "not all Muslims are terrorists" etc.

I know I couldn't convince you of that point, so I wouldn't even try. :roll:
 
Quite. And I'm fairly sure Somalis qualify as African. Conflating religious affiliation and ethnicity, as I said before, is worryingly reductionist.

Outside the context of the thread, I fail to see the point you're trying to make.
 
Sadly, it seems like every society needs at least one group of people that it is considered OK to hate; there is a need for someone to be against in order for society to be together. It's been out of fashion to hate black people for some time now and it's gotten increasingly difficult to hate gay people without backlash. So, we've moved on. Now it's cool to hate muslims and trans people.

It's the dumbest bigotry possible. You're far more likely to be struck twice in a row by lightning than to be killed by terrorism, and only the tiniest fraction of the 1,500,000 muslims are actually terrorists. Meanwhile, there hasn't been a single case of a person posing as a trans person to rape someone in a bathroom.

Meanwhile, Americans are 70% Christian and commit 1,400,000 violent crimes a year, meaning that on average Christians in America alone commit 980,000 violent crimes yearly on average. Are we told to be afraid of Christians? Of course not. Because that's different; those proposing broad anti-muslim policies and espousing anti-muslim beliefs will never apply the same logic to anyone perceived as being part of their group. Cowardly hypocrisy, imo, but there you go. Humanity.

Wonder who the next target will be....

How many of those 'Christians' commit their crimes in the name of Jesus? How many of them quote from the bible as they are beheading their victims? You are comparing apples and motorcycles.
 
I see, so it's just Muslim clerics you want to control. Yeah, that's going to work.



I know I couldn't convince you of that point, so I wouldn't even try. :roll:

Hell, you won't even admit that some Muslims are terrorists and a hell of a lot more Muslims support them.
 
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