Is Trump A Cult Leader?

[OlNate]

Let's be real, with a few exceptions, all the lefties will vote yes, and righties no.

Guess I'm an exception, X. I didn't say yes. Populism isn't the same as being in a cult.

I did say Trump is a temporary thing, though...which I believe, given his personal performance. Populist movements always have a short shelf life, since parties who's sole strategy is to point out the faults of others and tell them to **** off, to the delight of a frustrated citizenry, tends to get old when they don't actually replace it with something positive, or that works. Thankfully there is enough of "the swamp" left to keep the machine moving...but it will be interesting to see how people look back on this time period in 20 years or so.

 

[NeverTrump]

From Cults 101: Checklist of Cult Characteristics


3)Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).

There's "MAGA" and "Lock her up," but actually it's a quality of all political rallies to use mantras for the purpose of shutting down individual thought, so unless you want to call all political rallies cults, then I'm going to have to go with...no.

‪4)The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).

Nope. Trump spent a large amount of time doing marketing studies to learn what his base wanted to hear and then echoed it back to them in a purer, undiluted form. I don't think that really qualifies as dictating how members should think.

5)The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members.

This is vague, especially seeing as Trump and his followers don't adhere to a set of goals that are clearly laid out. Those goals can be inferred, to be sure. A platform that is consistently anti-immigrant, consistently hostile to minorities and demeaning to not Christians would certainly suggest that the "exalted status" is white Christianity, but that's more of an Ultranationalist or fascist label, which is a political categorization instead of a cult label, so...no.

10) Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.

While this has been the result, it is not a rule to sever ties with one's family and friends in order to be a trump follower, so...no.

‪11) The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.

While trump followers are certainly happy to accept new members, they have not shown themselves to be a "proselytizing" group. A group that's eager to attract new members wouldn't be so energetic about alienating others, so...no.


So I count 7 out of 14. Is that enough to qualify as a cult? The world of MAGA certainly has numerous cult-like qualities, but I think you'd need at least a majority of factors to qualify.

I agree 13 & 14 are in no way required for MAGA supporters. It's not at that level. The rest of the checks that you highlighted are all more dangerous I think than the nos. Besides for number 10, although, I do believe that on dating sites and in family discussions people will avoid you if you say you are a Trump supporter unless others also are. A lot of the other nos that you listed can be cultural but that's more of the reasons why Trump got to be popular not so much that he demanded them to act or dress a certain way. He just figured out a way to relate to certain sub-sections of people and apparently Cambridge Analytica was a major part of that. There's still research being done on just how much social media stuff like that affects people. But isn't it scary that it's already at least 50% a cult? If anything a newish baby cult with the possibility of hitting all yeses on that list??

 

[Acadia]

I voted for the option "Trump is a one-time temporary thing". Why? I believe Trump is essentially a social experiment president. A Reality T.V. Game show host with ZERO political experience was given the presidency by pissed off Republican voters who hated the Obama years, and were also angry at GOP politicians. But now that the American people have gotten a taste of the Reality T.V. presidency, they clearly don't like it, and 35% of the Republican base isn't enough to get Trump re-elected. But even if he does manage to get re-elected, I believe that will be it. I believe Trump will be the last Hollywood celebrity EVER elected to the presidency again. In fact, I don't believe another candidate with no political experience will ever get elected president again, thanks to Trump. He will be remembered as a failed social experiment, nothing more, IMO.

Interestingly, this fails to even mention that the alternative was way worse to millions of Americans. Well, that tends to blow a hole in this theory, doesn't it?
Also, if you know anything about Trump and his life, he was seriously contemplating politics long before he became a reality tv star.

eta- if God told Oprah to run for President (and hey, it still could happen, right?!), the Left would again start peeing themselves over the very prospect.

 

[trixare4kids]

I have only been following politics for the past 16 years, I am only 29, so I have not experienced speaking with much other supporters of other candidates throughout history. Like I imagine some of the older members on this forum have. What I have learned speaking with level-headed older people, is that they have never seen anything like Trump's movement in American political history. On twitter it's known as Cult45

As I see it:
Cozying up to racists, xenophobes, wife beaters, rapists, nazis, the KKK, right wing nut jobs and even pedophiles is now a common practice among the most conservative members of the GOP in an effort to form their own anti-establishment MAGA coalition, just so they can be against social norms. (are they really that jealous of the hippies??)

Hidden behind his idealistic policies and infamous talking points which always seem to be poor attempts at trolling, there is a fundamental disconnect between the political divide of old which separated the American people via issues and not by trollish gotchas, whataboutisms, and even basic fundamental institutions or dare I say, facts...

The attacks on the media and the intelligence agencies by Trump supporters are unprecedented in American History so much so that liberals are now their cheerleaders. Liberals who as far as I am aware were always skeptical of such institutions. Now of course members of the cult will pin that on the liberals and say they have become too trusting (so that's bad?), maybe, but is it also possible that conservatives have went down the rabbit hole of crazy?? I'll trust established institutions over some crazy alternative method every time unless if it's a new technology that's been proven and I like.

Which brings me to my final point, from the top down, Trump is teaching his followers how to play the game like he does. I mean, conservatives have always been very good at being the opposition, but in 2016 they weaponized it in the media, and even more on social media for the sole purpose of trolling and destroying certain institutions. Certain norms. Certain facts. In the past people would call that mayhem or anarchy.

They say stuff without thinking. Like "liberals suck, and shouldn't be taken seriously." Who's a liberal you may ask? Anybody who doesn't support Trump. It is this behavior and their willingness to not care about the various scandals plaguing the WH and Trump as a person, that leads me to put all Trump supporters together into a cult. And somehow that leader is Trump.

I have no idea what they see in him, why a quasi-liberal reality TV star who poses as a businessman should have any relation to Joe Schmoe voter, but whatever it is. His hair, his money, his women, his charisma. Trump became their leader and they will follow him to Nuclear War, if necessary. (Murder was so last year.)

I would particularly like to hear opinions from older members of this forum if you feel like Trump supporters have cultish behavior. I can almost predict what older conservative Trump supporters will say. Obama had a cult of supporters too. True he did, but his support greatly evaporated by 2012 and even then the crazy people were pretty much silent. Trump OTOH, has actually hardened his entire base around him in a year's time and he's managed to bypass scandal over scandal. Without losing a lick of support from his main base.

I don't even think they care if Trump fires Mueller, or know why that's bad.

I doubt any meaningful conversation, comparing the history of partisan bickering will come from this poll, but we shall see.

Just another hate/bait anti-Trump thread.

I would think that after 15 months, the anti-Trumpers would learn to deal, but alas your thread where you attack Trump supporters/voters by labeling them cult followers proves me wrong.
If you never Trumpers don't like this president, how about you work harder finding someone capable of beating him? Going after his supporters adds little to the conversation.
I liken it to Hillary calling Trump's base an irredeemable basket of deplorables. Oh, and we all know how well that worked for her.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Good people can be a part of awful cults. It has happened before.

That happens ALL the time.
A very dear childhood friend of mine wound up in a cult. Straight A student, never got into drugs, not even weed, worked hard, dressed smartly, good looking, kept his head down, obeyed his parents, showed signs of incredible brilliance in English Lit and History, showed promise as a writer, even won some awards.
And then one day shortly after graduating from high school, when everyone else was making plans to start a career, or go off on a short "fun year", or making plans to start college, he disappeared...POOF! Even his parents were dumbfounded, and actually enlisted the police to try to find him.
Suddenly I heard from him a year later. He had joined The Moonies and gotten married to a cute little Korean girl, and had moved from suburban Maryland to Washington State.
And of course he invited me to join as well...naturally my response was "nothing doing".

I was in shock. This is the kid that got an extended standing ovation at a school talent show as the last act of the evening, and was surrounded by kids and teachers alike. No one had ever remembered him being a standup comic and yet he had the entire auditorium in stitches.

Today he'd be the shy guy who suddenly gets three YESSES on American Idol or some similar talent show program. Instead he was a Moonie.
I got another two or three emails from him twenty years later, out of the clear blue sky.
I had put out some feelers trying to find him and he had seen them and he contacted me.

Still in The Moonies, still married, and still committed to getting old friends to join up.
I hope he is happy, but he didn't sound anything like the guy I grew up with.
He sounded like a robot.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I am pretty sure that one can not be a Lefty in Good Standing in Seattle and not claim that Trump supporters are a cult.

I mean you could say it, but then you would get the consequences.

I would say you'd have to expand your net to include much more than "The Lefties in Seattle".
I know tons of Republicans who agree, including more than a few who voted for Donald and then had buyer's remorse.

 

[Acadia]

LOL!!

It's a stupid poll and here's why. ^^^^^^

Do you REALLY expect intelligence from Twitter? :roll:

The anti-2nd amendment, never-Trumpers adopting a gun meme is precious.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I think that it's hard to call Trump a leader of anything. He's more of just some divisive force. Instead of leading and creating coherent plans to move forward, he uses drama and absurdities to create infighting, divisions, and plays upon the already hyperpartisan hatred and ignorance that infected the system previously. He's more of a charlatan, a snake-oil salesman, than leader.

That's still pretty much part and parcel of being a cult leader. Is there something else missing, like ONE THING that prevents him from being seen as a cult leader? What would that one thing be?
Martyrdom?
I see him as being very much like Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh.

 

[NeverTrump]

That's still pretty much part and parcel of being a cult leader. Is there something else missing, like ONE THING that prevents him from being seen as a cult leader? What would that one thing be?
Martyrdom?
I see him as being very much like Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh.

There's not much that separates the snakeoil salesman from a cult leader. Cardinal's post #69 breaks it down and Trump already meets half the criteria.

 

[SheWolf]

I think Trump uses the same type of rhetoric but for a different purpose. Not to get followers or even sacrifices, I don't see that happening. He doesn't seem to care much about policies or ideas either. But his loyalty fetish and the way that he and his followers feel that everybody is out to get them. That is very much in line with cults. Scientology is a good example of that.

You're describing more cult of personality than a cult leader. One thing standing in the way of Trump's cult of personality is that the media in America is free, and does not have to promote an image of him as a heroic leader, strong, and knowing what's best.

There are all kinds of Trump supporters. Many have placed blind trust in him thinking he will do what is right and MAGA despite some of the warning signs and red flags others saw. Hillary didn't have the enthusiasm that Trump supporters did. Many voted for Hillary and weren't happy with her as a candidate. Both Trump and Hillary were embattled, were destined to have difficulty uniting the people and government braches behind them, would be investigated etc. But the difference was the Trump's supporters excitement and enthusiasm, and belief in empty rhetoric.

He is definitely a demagogue, which most cult leaders are. He promised great things, but can't deliver and never set out a road map or detailed policy. It leads to a belief in the demagogue and faith he can and will eventually deliver. Or in the case of Jonestown, declaring and believing the demagogue succeeded in his promises when he did not... The people in Jonestown said they we free, freer than they ever were their whole lives, and jonestown was the best place ever, etc but they weren't free. They were basically prisoners being held in a jungle by a drug addicted and paranoid cult leader.

We should question our leaders, not be loyal. We should push them to achieve great things and unite the people, not fail to see their follies or fail to criticize.

Trump is dangerous in that he is a demagogue and promotes conspiracy theories, often in his own interest.
He would be more dangerous if America did not have a free press.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Get a grip. All candidates have their groupies. You saw the tears when Hillary lost, right?

Yes, except after the period of shock and dismay I was heard to remark that I could have accepted several of the other Republican candidates, anyone BUT Trump.
It's been echoed many times right here on DP and you've seen it and so have many others.
Kasich, Jeb Bush, Pataki, even Pennywise the Clown...anyone but Donald Trump.
It wasn't just the fact that the Dems had lost, it was the fact that I felt like I was in that scene in "Ghostbusters" where the containment field just got shut off, and a massive mushroom cloud erupted from GB HQ and all the demons and goblins had been set loose.

 

[upsideguy]

I don't know why, but I like you.

You often don't make a lick of sense, but I still like you.

OH Ya, I know, I have been around you see......

Hey Man, I have sure noticed U Around.....R U READY 2 B Friends?

Sure.:mrgreen:

Get a room (like in another thread).

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I think Trump uses the same type of rhetoric but for a different purpose. Not to get followers or even sacrifices, I don't see that happening. He doesn't seem to care much about policies or ideas either. But his loyalty fetish and the way that he and his followers feel that everybody is out to get them. That is very much in line with cults. Scientology is a good example of that.

He uses a lot of tactics similar to those of David Miscavige.

 

[Cardinal]

I agree 13 & 14 are in no way required for MAGA supporters. It's not at that level. The rest of the checks that you highlighted are all more dangerous I think than the nos. Besides for number 10, although, I do believe that on dating sites and in family discussions people will avoid you if you say you are a Trump supporter unless others also are. A lot of the other nos that you listed can be cultural but that's more of the reasons why Trump got to be popular not so much that he demanded them to act or dress a certain way. He just figured out a way to relate to certain sub-sections of people and apparently Cambridge Analytica was a major part of that. There's still research being done on just how much social media stuff like that affects people. But isn't it scary that it's already at least 50% a cult? If anything a newish baby cult with the possibility of hitting all yeses on that list??

Although my position is that MAGA isn't a cult, meeting 50% of the qualities of a cult is indeed quite high.

 

[americanwoman]

Anyone who disagrees with the anti-Trumpers is a racist.

In your opinion.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Oh really? Do you want to have a point-by-point discussion about what a cult is and how Donald Trump's following fits many if not most of those points?

Again, I stress, good people can fall for bad cults. Heaven's Gate, the Branch Davidians, etc.

Har! Most of the surviving Branch Davidians STILL think Koresh was The Messiah.
Even when questioned about his multiple marriages and sexual relationships with victims as young as eleven, they dismiss all of it...he was The Messiah.

See you in twenty years after Trump is firmly settled in Moscow. Watch and listen to his supporters today. They'll tell you that he was "driven out by an evil librul conspiracy headed by America haters".

 

[SheWolf]

That's still pretty much part and parcel of being a cult leader. Is there something else missing, like ONE THING that prevents him from being seen as a cult leader? What would that one thing be?
Martyrdom?
I see him as being very much like Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh.

Good question. I have read about a lot of cults. I have studied Jim Jones in depth.

Trump is not leading a cult. He is leading a political movement. When I think of a political movement the most similar to a cult, I think of aspects of the Nazis and their social engineering, belief in destiny, and theological and scientific rhetoric.

Trump has the demagogue part. He has the empty rhetoric and charlatan.

He lacks leadership skills but can fall back on his cult of personality and the people around him trusting he means well.

The one thing he really lacks is higher purpose. For Jones it was creating a better society for his flock. For Hitler it was achieving the destiny their blood and hertaige placed upon the people.

Trump lacks higher purpose. MAGA is very empty rhetoric in comparison to other leaders. Hitler enjoyed his strongest support as he conquered and invaded other countries. His support declined as the Red Army pushed back. Jones deceived people with his charm and good works. He did a lot for the poor, racial injustice, local communities, etc. But Trump is not having success. His supporters would say that is the media's destruction of him. Jones made the same claims about the media destroying his character, but he still kept doing his magic and good works. Look at Trump. Trump is concerned for himself. His reputation. His image.

He is not even faking to be uplifting anybody IMO. If he were doing that ontop of playing victim of the media, OMG, the support could go through the roof.

 

[trixare4kids]

When you have a nonsense President, stupid stuff he does will get reported on. The right tried to make Obama look like a nonsense President too. I fell for some of that. The difference between the two is Trump actually is. No President goes against all advice given to him. No President has flip flopped as much as he has. No President has been sued by a pornstar and a playboy model. No President has thrown away good deals because they don't have what he wants in it. No President has had such a large amount of staff corruption or turnover. No President has ever had this much conflict of interest.

And any one of those scandals would have burnt any other Presidency to shreds. Yet because of Trump, his cult like supporters and naive enablers here we have it.

When making your "more choice" poll, you should have asked this question too.. "or am I an anti-Trump cultist who suffers from TDS"? :mrgreen:

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

10) Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.

While this has been the result, it is not a rule to sever ties with one's family and friends in order to be a trump follower, so...no.

Respectfully disagree.
Perhaps they aren't REQUIRED to cut ties, but severing connections to family and friends has often been a direct result. I can't even count how many families are torn apart.
So, for me, I'd be checking that box YES.
It may not be a rule but it's an almost sure-fire result in many cases, and it transcends party loyalty.
I know families which are 100% Republican and they've still been torn apart because the couple of Trumpsters were a wedge. They cut ties because the other part of the family realized that Trump was bad for the party and bad for the country.

 

[Cardinal]

Respectfully disagree.
Perhaps they aren't REQUIRED to cut ties, but severing connections to family and friends has often been a direct result. I can't even count how many families are torn apart.
So, for me, I'd be checking that box YES.
It may not be a rule but it's an almost sure-fire result in many cases, and it transcends party loyalty.
I know families which are 100% Republican and they've still been torn apart because the couple of Trumpsters were a wedge. They cut ties because the other part of the family realized that Trump was bad for the party and bad for the country.

It's the requirement to sever ties with family and friends that's the important distinction. Otherwise it's so broad that literally anything that causes you to drift apart from your friends and family could be considered a cult. Anything that broad is meaningless.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

He's not a cult leader. He shares some very few characteristics with cult leaders (extreme ego, charisma/charm, volatility), but there are more things required to be an actual cult leader. Simply sharing characteristics with a specific type of person does not make you that type of person automatically, especially if other things are more important to the definition of that particular type of person, such as leading some sort of actual religious/dogmatic following/group.

Do you consider Dominionists to be a cult?
I certainly do. They're ready, willing and eager to toss democracy in the ash heap and trade it for "biblical government" which is called "theocracy" in most circles. Therefore, Dominionist evangelicalism is 100% incompatible with secular democracy and the USA is a secular constitutional democratic republic.
Most good Americans did not sign on for theocracy.
The Dominionists, together with white nationalists, form a large part of Trump's support.
The largest? Perhaps not, but take them away and Trump's support numbers would drop FAR below the current 35 to 40%, perhaps even below 28%.

 

[chuckiechan]

Trump has a cult personality...and he seems to have a cult following...so I guess that makes him a cult leader.

Yes. A cult of people who feel a politicians job is to create the conditions for a better, more prosperous life instead of calling them racists because they object to letting every Tom, Dick, and Harry walk across the border with impunity. And in the case of California have legal protection to have as much right to your job as you do.

Count me in!

 

[upsideguy]

The OP is not the first person to see Trumpism as a cult and Trump as the leader of the cult. Whether or not you "buy it", there is enough there that it is a legitimate question to ponder.

Characteristics of a cult: Six Sociological Characteristics of Cults

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ligion-nationalist-us-president-a8053996.html

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/02/cult-trump-why-it-has-taken-hold/
https://www.axios.com/cult-trump-base-maga-republicans-gop-b96102cb-7cb9-46f2-9763-b014e68a261a.html
nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/02/conservatives-and-the-cult-of-trump.html

 

[apdst]

In your opinion.

That's the opinion of the anti-Trumpers.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

eta- if God told Oprah to run for President (and hey, it still could happen, right?!), the Left would again start peeing themselves over the very prospect.

NO.
A very LARGE part of the liberal community immediately said NO to Oprah.

1) She wasn't politically experienced, and that's now more important to liberals than ever before, case in point.

2) She appears to be easily led by hucksters, Dr. Oz, Dr. Phil, etc.

3) She, like Trump, does indeed appear to have a cultish following and that turned off a lot of liberals.

4) The whole "I need a sign from God" thing was an immediate turn-off. A lot of my fellow liberals said the same thing almost immediately, "Oh NO, not ANOTHER prezzy-dint who thinks that they "talk to God, last thing we need".

5) No NO NOOOOOO, no more "celebrity presidents", not even Oprah, no more TV presidents.
That's now a hard and fast rule for a lot of liberals that I know, after watching Trump.

6) Lastly, the amount of scandalous material in Oprah's past is staggering. Try "almost every single controversial talk show she ever did". The Republicans would have had a field day picking through that slag heap, and my fellow liberals IMMEDIATELY saw that as a non-starter, even if they really DID like her as a choice.

And there was much much more.
Don't get me wrong, I like Oprah and I do think she has a good heart, but politics is not her forte, not by a long shot.

I think you may be misjudging liberals just a wee bit.