Is this what Mormons really believe?

[Ned Racine]

NOW - it should stand to reason that she either has some personal view or eyewitness experience concerning all of this ??????

As far as the "Apostates" go - well that's a strong term and it covers an awful lot of ground and BTW - the LDS Church has some very strong Guidelines and standards concerning Child Abuse or Sexual Abuse in General. No One gets protected by the Church and Bishop's have contacted the authorities.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

NOW - it should stand to reason that she either has some personal view or eyewitness experience concerning all of this ??????

As far as the "Apostates" go - well that's a strong term and it covers an awful lot of ground and BTW - the LDS Church has some very strong Guidelines and standards concerning Child Abuse or Sexual Abuse in General. No One gets protected by the Church and Bishop's have contacted the authorities.

Your post is less than clear. Child sexual abuse rates are extremely high in Utah, along with other types of sexual assault. The highest in the U.S., per capita, in fact. So are rates of prescription drug abuse. Antidepressants are prescribed at 2x the national average in Utah.

These things counter the perception that Utah is the last bastion of morality in the U.S. In fact, I would say that a lot of the "happiness" of LDS members is of a stepfordish quality. It's a facade.

 

[marduc]

Speaking of guidelines:

link

 

[Ned Racine]

SO then - YOUR OVERALL POINT IS THAT "Active Church Members" are" Behaving Much differently at Home" and "Abusing their Families" "Abusing Medications" and are More Deviate than in such places as Vermont, Hawaii, Maryland etc. - is that you specific charge.???

 

[Catz Part Deux]

SO then - YOUR OVERALL POINT IS THAT "Active Church Members" are" Behaving Much differently at Home" and "Abusing their Families" "Abusing Medications" and are More Deviate than in such places as Vermont, Hawaii, Maryland etc. - is that you specific charge.???

Is this really so difficult for you? You made the following claim:

I truly believe that any social Ramifications caused by the LDS Church in recent years has been rather positive. Possibly this is because much of the rest of society has deteriorated (???)

Your claim is false. If anything, society in Utah is deteriorating faster by some key measures. I mean, women living in Utah are more likely to be raped than anywhere else in the U.S. Children are more likely to be sexually abused there. Drug use is rampant. Mood-altering drugs are used at twice the national average. The suicide rate is high.

All is not well in Zion, dude.

I know you want to believe that the LDS faith is the last bastion against the darkness, but it isn't working.

If your comment were true, Utah would not be leading the nation in rape and child sexual assault. Or use of anti-depressants. Or drug overdoses. Do you see what I'm saying?

 

[Ned Racine]

Didn't YOU leave out something here ???????

Now - Step up the the Plate - and fully state that these abuses YOU are defining are done by currently active LDS Church members who are behaving much differently at home then when they are either at the Ward,Stake, Temple or involved in whatever calling they have.

Don't back off now.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

Didn't YOU leave out something here ???????

Now - Step up the the Plate - and fully state that these abuses YOU are defining are done by currently active LDS Church members who are behaving much differently at home then when they are either at the Ward,Stake, Temple or involved in whatever calling they have.

Don't back off now.

Utah has the highest percentage of active church members in the U.S. Hence, statewide statistics should be significantly better than the national average, which is less mormon, on the whole. You aren't very good at this whole debate thing, are you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah

A majority of the state's residents are members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, commonly referred to as the Mormons or the LDS Church. As of 2007, the percentage of Utahns that are counted as members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was 60.7 percent of the state's population, although only 41.6 percent of them are active members.[7][29] Mormons now make up about 34%–41% of Salt Lake City,[7] while rural areas tend to be overwhelmingly Mormon.

The state of Utah is heavily influenced by the LDS church. Active members of the LDS Church make up 41% of the state's population.

If the Church represents what you suggest it does, that is a significant enough percentage that rates of sex crime and drug abuse should be lower than other states. Instead, they are significantly higher than the U.S. average. Thus, the church's influence does not appear to be as positive as you claim.

 

[digsbe]

My problem is how Mormonism claims to be a form of Christianity, yet they have their own scriptures that contradict Biblical doctrine. If I'm wrong please correct me, but doesn't Mormonism teach that devout Mormons become a god in a universe? I don't mean to be offensive, I just have some questions.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

My problem is how Mormonism claims to be a form of Christianity, yet they have their own scriptures that contradict Biblical doctrine. If I'm wrong please correct me, but doesn't Mormonism teach that devout Mormons become a god in a universe? I don't mean to be offensive, I just have some questions.

Yes. The Temple endowment & sealing ceremonies deal specifically with that.

 

[digsbe]

Yes. The Temple endowment & sealing ceremonies deal specifically with that.

This troubles me, because most Christian theology believes that satan's original sin was desiring to be God. That His pride led to his sin, and his desire to be God's equal and like God caused Him to lead a third of heavens angels in revolt (thus the demons came to be). It seems odd to me that Mormon teachings somewhat parallel the desire of satan in his original sin. Satan wanted to be God's equal and a god himself, and Mormonism rewards their faithful with godship over some universe.

 

[UtahBill]

My problem is how Mormonism claims to be a form of Christianity, yet they have their own scriptures that contradict Biblical doctrine. If I'm wrong please correct me, but doesn't Mormonism teach that devout Mormons become a god in a universe? I don't mean to be offensive, I just have some questions.

There are some disagreements between Book of Mormon and the bible, but the LDS still use the bible as part of their combined scriptures.

 

[digsbe]

There are some disagreements between Book of Mormon and the bible, but the LDS still use the bible as part of their combined scriptures.

I understand that, but is the Bible not the literal word of God in Mormonism? Or is it fallible and subject to the Book of Mormon?

 

[Catz Part Deux]

This troubles me, because most Christian theology believes that satan's original sin was desiring to be God. That His pride led to his sin, and his desire to be God's equal and like God caused Him to lead a third of heavens angels in revolt (thus the demons came to be). It seems odd to me that Mormon teachings somewhat parallel the desire of satan in his original sin. Satan wanted to be God's equal and a god himself, and Mormonism rewards their faithful with godship over some universe.

Mormons believe that if they do all of God's will, they will be exalted and attain godhood. The men will rule over their own planet and their wives will bring forth spirit children to populate that world.

President Lorenzo Snow: "As man is, God once was, as God is man may become"

Joseph Smith:

Here then is eternal life- to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power.

When you climb up the ladder, you must begin at the bottom, and ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top; and so it is with the principals of the Gospel- you must begin with the first, and go on until you learn all the principals of exaltation
(Joseph Fielding Smith ed, Teachings of The Prophet Joseph Smith, 346-47).

 

[UtahBill]

This troubles me, because most Christian theology believes that satan's original sin was desiring to be God. That His pride led to his sin, and his desire to be God's equal and like God caused Him to lead a third of heavens angels in revolt (thus the demons came to be). It seems odd to me that Mormon teachings somewhat parallel the desire of satan in his original sin. Satan wanted to be God's equal and a god himself, and Mormonism rewards their faithful with godship over some universe.

The part about Satan, I was raised a baptist, and never heard that until I took the LDS missionary lessons...

 

[digsbe]

Mormons believe that if they do all of God's will, they will be exalted and attain godhood. The men will rule over their own planet and their wives will bring forth spirit children to populate that world.

This is one thing I strongly disagree with Mormonism on. This is something that directly contradicts Biblical teachings. The Bible teaches those who are forgiven will reside in heaven for eternity. That those in heaven will be appointed jobs, be in God's presence, and have perfect fellowship with God and others in heaven (basically, living a perfect life for eternity). It also teaches that people will no longer be wed in heaven, the Bible also speaks of having glorified perfect bodies.

I was raised a baptist, and never heard that until I took the LDS missionary lessons...

Never heard of what? Satan's original sin? I was also raised Baptist and learned it in Sunday School as a child.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

I understand that, but is the Bible not the literal word of God in Mormonism? Or is it fallible and subject to the Book of Mormon?

Mormons believe that men removed sections of God's teachings and that the BoM and Joseph Smith RESTORED that information. That's why they refer to the church as the "restored gospel."

 

[Catz Part Deux]

This is one thing I strongly disagree with Mormonism on. This is something that directly contradicts Biblical teachings. The Bible teaches those who are forgiven will reside in heaven for eternity. That those in heaven will be appointed jobs, be in God's presence, and have perfect fellowship with God and others in heaven (basically, living a perfect life for eternity). It also teaches that people will no longer be wed in heaven, the Bible also speaks of having glorified perfect bodies.

You've hit on the main reason I left the LDS church.

 

[digsbe]

Mormons believe that men removed sections of God's teachings and that the BoM and Joseph Smith RESTORED that information. That's why they refer to the church as the "restored gospel."

Ah. Thanks for the insight. For me I am highly skeptical of this claim. What authority does Joseph Smith have to make such an accusation? Biblically, the prophets of God had the Spirit of God upon them and God worked miraculous things through them to show the people that they were speaking the word's of God and not their own words for personal gain. In my understanding, Joseph Smith made accusations and proved nothing, nor did God's hand or will seem to rest upon him.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

Ah. Thanks for the insight. For me I am highly skeptical of this claim. What authority does Joseph Smith have to make such an accusation? Biblically, the prophets of God had the Spirit of God upon them and God worked miraculous things through them to show the people that they were speaking the word's of God and not their own words for personal gain. In my understanding, Joseph Smith made accusations and proved nothing, nor did God's hand or will seem to rest upon him.

In my opinion, the church downplays these things because it makes them less palatable to converts. And, JOseph Smith was a lying charlatan. I bet he had a heckuva winning personality, though.

 

[digsbe]

In my opinion, the church downplays these things because it makes them less palatable to converts. And, JOseph Smith was a lying charlatan. I bet he had a heckuva winning personality, though.

I agree with this. Personally I think he was a charlatan. And as a Christian there are passages in the Bible warning of false prophets that are to come in order to contort the message of Christ. I believe Joseph Smith falls in the category of false prophets that the Bible warns about. I don't hate Mormons and I admire their devotion. But I think their religious beliefs are not Christianity and completely false according to the very Bible they claim to believe is a work of God.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

I agree with this. Personally I think he was a charlatan. And as a Christian there are passages in the Bible warning of false prophets that are to come in order to contort the message of Christ. I believe Joseph Smith falls in the category of false prophets that the Bible warns about. I don't hate Mormons and I admire their devotion. But I think their religious beliefs are not Christianity and completely false according to the very Bible they claim to believe is a work of God.

It is accurate to say that the Mormon faith is not Christian, per se. But that doesn't mean that the people who follow mormonism don't believe in Christ or try to live Christlike lives, because many of them do. But doctrinally, it is very different than Christianity.

 

[digsbe]

It is accurate to say that the Mormon faith is not Christian, per se. But that doesn't mean that the people who follow mormonism don't believe in Christ or try to live Christlike lives, because many of them do. But doctrinally, it is very different than Christianity.

I can accept that. I acknowledge their belief about Christ, but I wouldn't say they follow Christian theology or Biblical teaching (as I believe the BOM is in contradiction with the Bible).

 

[UtahBill]

What occurred at the Council of Nicea?
Constantine forced major changes to the early church....and when the bible was put together by the early church, books were left out. Protestants used to be happy with the King James version of the bible, but anymore, there are multiple versions of it in print.
I have heard a few protestants who don't accept that satan was a son of god, and that jesus was his brother, which is something the LDS teach.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

What occurred at the Council of Nicea?
Constantine forced major changes to the early church....and when the bible was put together by the early church, books were left out. Protestants used to be happy with the King James version of the bible, but anymore, there are multiple versions of it in print.
I have heard a few protestants who don't accept that satan was a son of god, and that jesus was his brother, which is something the LDS teach.

Most christians believe that Lucifer was one of the most important angels. You're right, of course. I consider what we have of Christianity to have been irreparably altered by human beings since the time in which Christ lived.

However, Joseph Smith is not a trustworthy source for filling in the gaps.

And, you know that until the early 2000s, the LDS Church DID NOT WANT to be labeled as Christian.

In fact, the LDS Endowment ceremony used to include an actor who portrayed a Christian minister, who acted as a hireling of Lucifer in order to deceive and mislead believers away from the Kingdom of God.

http://www.lds-mormon.com/compare2.shtml

 

[UtahBill]

I can accept that. I acknowledge their belief about Christ, but I wouldn't say they follow Christian theology or Biblical teaching (as I believe the BOM is in contradiction with the Bible).

There are more teachings in common than there are that differ....between the 2 books. Not that it matters, the bible has been called the "most unread best seller" for a good reason.
It was in the news a few days ago, most Americans don't really know what their own religion teaches.
Today's christian teachings are not necessarily those of the original church, which in some areas is good, some areas is bad.
Certainly very few christians try to apply the Levitical rules anymore...