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Is there a God?

Defij said:
I’m not sure if you understand fully what living the Christian life is all about. I'm not a "good person" (whatever that ambiguous statement means) because I DON"T want to go to hell, but rather it's the goodness of God that draws me to repentance. It's His grace and mercy, not some "DO what I say or I'll punish you!!!" theory. If that were the case, mankind would not give God proper worship, instead, it would be blackmail. God desires worship, not simple obedience.
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It's not the goodness of god that draws you toward repentance but the goodness of the words between the pages of the book with which christians use as a source of guidance, and if I recall it was written by 66 different people? I don't know I may be wrong but it is somewhere along those lines. So the credibility of god can only be seen through the minds of humans. Hence god only beeing a theory
 
hey atheists,
why do you care? You should not make fun of Jesus and say that he was crazy. If you hate Jesus, you should know this: he died for you. And that is the greatest gift of all. Eternal life. So while you dislike God, he loves you.

Im tired of atheists thinking that they are better than christians or people of any other religion. You guys have a certain arrogance to you, like their is some secret that you know about; and all christians are slaves.
that arrogance has blinded you. You don't seem to realize that most christians learn to accept god in their adulthood. So, we are not just brainwashed our whole lives.

The motivation behind christianity is not fear of hell. It is looking forward to everlasting life. I am not scarred of passing away. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to die because there are so many things that I want to accomplish during my life, but when that time comes, I'll be ready.

Truly, the bible is not a bad book. You atheists should give it a read. And since you think that it is fiction, you should have no problem reading it. I mean you can read a story about UFO's and not believe in them, right. My suggestion is to not start at the old testament, go to the new. The old is too much story not enough message.

Praying is not so bad either. There is nothing wrong with asking for help. We all need some. I think asking God to give you help is a great thing. When you ask, you get a good feeling inside, like you are not alone. Then you can find the inner strength to do the task. He can help you do your job or school. He can watch over your friends. Heck, I prayed for Bush(and still do) and you know how that's turned out.

As far as church goes, I do have some issues. I respect churches a lot and all the good things they do, but I am kind of turned off by them. Too many stupid rules, that God doesn't care about. Like celebacy for priests, that's just something that they made up along the way. And what about taking classes to get communion (for you atheists that means eating the crackers and drinking the wine), that's right we have to go to night school to get the body of christ. The church does do a lot of good things though.

Hey, has anyone seen , The Passion of the Christ. It is a good movie, its not like it really moved me, but it was good. I hate how it's the red movie and Farinheit 9/11 is the blue. Doesn't that make you christian democrats mad? And mad that hollywood doesn't like the movie. The other good thing about it is that it is not anti-semitic. The movie is very accurate. Jewish priests did condem christ. Does that mean they are to blame? no. We are all to blame. Jesus died for everyone, so in away everyone killed him. You killed him and I killed him. We all have sinned he paid for it.

So, I hope that you atheists have changed a little. 80 percent of america believes in Jesus so you better get along with us. I don't see what the big deal is with religion in school. It is not bad, it's not sex or violence. It doesn't hurt anyone. There is a lot of crulety in this world and a lot of hatred towards each other. Hating a person because of his point of view is what's destroying the world. Not religion. The bible is a good handbook to life, it's shows us to not value money, love thy neighbor, and be humble. No matter who you are those are good lessons. Even if you don't believe in Jesus he can teach you many things.
 
Blue Hobgoblin said:
Actually, I believe there is strong archaeological evidence that a man named Jesus did live and preach. Now the deal about the miracles and the resurrection are matters of faith and can't be proven through scientific or archaeological evidence.
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Yes, seems likely that Jesus did actually exist. But Son of God? Sorry, can't buy that one!
 
Actually, I believe there is strong archaeological evidence that a man named Jesus did live and preach. Now the deal about the miracles and the resurrection are matters of faith and can't be proven through scientific or archaeological evidence.
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Ask yourself what kind of archaeological evidence there will be for the existence of Mahatma Ghandi, inarguably a great and well known man. I doubt that there will be much of anything in a couple of hundred years other than written records. There are no contemporary records of the existence of Jesus. You would think that the Romans would have some record of his execution, but they don't seem to have. No physical evidence has so far been found. There was that forgery of James' ossuary, though.
 
hey atheists,
why do you care? You should not make fun of Jesus and say that he was crazy. If you hate Jesus, you should know this: he died for you. And that is the greatest gift of all. Eternal life. So while you dislike God, he loves you.
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Gee, I can't pass this one up.

Nobody is making fun of Jesus. He was a great man and a great teacher. It's too bad his ideas never caught on. Especially the one about praying in private.


The motivation behind christianity is not fear of hell. It is looking forward to everlasting life. I am not scarred of passing away. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to die because there are so many things that I want to accomplish during my life, but when that time comes, I'll be ready.
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You coulda fooled me. Didn't it used to be that the Church made quite an industry out of the sale of indulgences? Before your time, I expect. FYI an indulgence buys you out of X years in purgatory (quite an invention, itself), but It's pretty sure you could never have bought enough to be home free. I've certainly heard all too many hellfire and damnation evangelists in my young life bellowing about how all us eight-year-old sinners were bound for hell if we didn't repent. :rofl Why were all these people so concerned about my soul, anyway? I didn't give a damn about theirs.
Truly, the bible is not a bad book. You atheists should give it a read. And since you think that it is fiction, you should have no problem reading it. I mean you can read a story about UFO's and not believe in them, right. My suggestion is to not start at the old testament, go to the new. The old is too much story not enough message.
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No, the bible is a pretty good book, and it's got a lot of interesting history and mythology in it. What you may not know is that it is only a small part of a body of writing that was carefully selected and no doubt edited by the early church fathers. Christianity is a carefully constructed philosophy.

<snip> Heck, I prayed for Bush(and still do) and you know how that's turned out.
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Sure do, but I don't think I mean that quite the way you do. :)

As far as church goes, I do have some issues. I respect churches a lot and all the good things they do, but I am kind of turned off by them. Too many stupid rules, that God doesn't care about. Like celebacy for priests, that's just something that they made up along the way. And what about taking classes to get communion (for you atheists that means eating the crackers and drinking the wine), that's right we have to go to night school to get the body of christ. The church does do a lot of good things though.
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As a social club the church, if not allowed to get too uppity, serves a useful purpose. Charlemagne used it around 800 CE to provide the glue holding together the Holy Roman Empire, which developed eventually into our western civilization. I am inclined to believe that he was more of a savvy ruler than a dedicated Christian, though. Later the church grew too powerful and was involved in quite a few evil things.

As far as the wine and cookies go, I'm well aware of the drill. My first wife was a Catholic and I attended mass often with her. The two of us even carried the Host once. :rofl
Hey, has anyone seen , The Passion of the Christ. It is a good movie, its not like it really moved me, but it was good. I hate how it's the red movie and Farinheit 9/11 is the blue. Doesn't that make you christian democrats mad? And mad that hollywood doesn't like the movie. The other good thing about it is that it is not anti-semitic. The movie is very accurate. Jewish priests did condem christ. Does that mean they are to blame? no. We are all to blame. Jesus died for everyone, so in away everyone killed him. You killed him and I killed him. We all have sinned he paid for it.
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Yep. Gotta read them thar Left Behind books, too.
So, I hope that you atheists have changed a little. 80 percent of america believes in Jesus so you better get along with us. I don't see what the big deal is with religion in school. It is not bad, it's not sex or violence. It doesn't hurt anyone. There is a lot of crulety in this world and a lot of hatred towards each other. Hating a person because of his point of view is what's destroying the world. Not religion. The bible is a good handbook to life, it's shows us to not value money, love thy neighbor, and be humble. No matter who you are those are good lessons. Even if you don't believe in Jesus he can teach you many things.
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Do you suppose Jesus could persuade you good folks to quit writing laws for the rest of us to obey? :(
 
I'm not an Atheist for one, I don't belong to some secret god hating society or jesus hating for that matter. You can have your religion I just don't want it in my politics. I don't think that a homosexual shouldn't be able to get married because some jack a**es in congress heard from an invisible deity that it's not right. I don't want my president claiming he is a christian when he is ordering death to terrorists of his empire. Isn't thou shalt not kill in "gods" ten commandments? We live by this whole philosophy of the Sanctity of life but we don't practice it. We kill chickens, pigs, mosquetos, flies, humans, and you don't see too many bumper stickers that read "I brake for advanced melanoma" So we get to choose witch forms of life we feel are sacred and we get to kill the rest. Pretty neat deal huh? You know how we got it? We made the whole thing up!

Point is there is no truth and consistency in religion or politics but at least with politics I can choose which is BS and wich is not, instead of being forced to beleive a cult's views or being torched in eternal hellfire for opposing their god
 
Don't try to judge people like Bush if you are not christian. He tries to live in a good manner like any christian but he's only human. What? do you want him to turn the other cheek after 9/11.
Who cares if bugs die? Thou shall not kill humans!!! Churches of course do good charity work to cure diseases.

As far as religion goes. I'm sorry but if you don't understand then you don't understand. Maybe someday you'll change.
 
pwo said:
Don't try to judge people like Bush if you are not christian. He tries to live in a good manner like any christian but he's only human. What? do you want him to turn the other cheek after 9/11.
Who cares if bugs die? Thou shall not kill humans!!! Churches of course do good charity work to cure diseases.

As far as religion goes. I'm sorry but if you don't understand then you don't understand. Maybe someday you'll change.
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First of all If you are a christian you shouldn't judge people in the first place. Second of all did you not read my post? I put humans down as things we kill and Bush orders the death of humans, and yes Jesus did say turn the other cheek. So I don't think Bush should be calling himself a christian. Beleive me I know christians, I hang around christians so yeah I do understand church. Just because I don't beleive in god dosen't mean I neesecarily hate everybody that is associated with a religion. Like I said you can have your religion I just don't want my idiot president talking about god (wich is supposed to be a loving spirit) and then talking about conducting crusades and such in its name.
 
pwo said:
There is a saying that goes something like....."If you don't believe in God, then you better be right."
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That's a distorted version of Pascal's Wager. If you're not familiar with P's W, in short it can be summed up as "You're better off believing in G-d because the odds of payout are better than not believing at all". From Wikipedia:
  • You may believe in God, and God exists, in which case you go to heaven.
  • You may believe in God, and God doesn't exist, in which case you gain nothing.
  • You may not believe in God, and God doesn't exist, in which you gain nothing again.
  • You may not believe in God, and God may exist, in which case you will be punished.
There are many problems with the wager... That it assumes that the existence of a Christian G-d is binary, that it would only result in a Christian G-d (which leaves out many of the world's known religions/G-d(s)(ess)(esses)) ...That G-d would punish a person for not believing. Etc etc.

Proof of the existence or non-existence of a G-d is as possible as the old "Invisible Pink Unicorn" standard. I say that no person can prove or disprove the existence of a G-d anymore than they can prove or disprove the existence of an Invisible Pink Unicorn. As such, I'm an agnostic as that is the only working logic that can be correctly applied. There's no definitive way to know either way. I do lean more towards the fact that there is no supreme being, but I would be remiss to completely rule it out.

I believe that religion needs to be seperated from what are the conceivable mores of a society and need to be explained as such. What may have been good in the olden times is not always applicable to modern day values and as such, the religion cannot be adhered to while society has evolved into something else. Take a look at some excerpts from the Bible and realize that society has progressed in a better way now that we no longer adhere to these beliefs:

Corinthians 34-35
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Deuteronomy 21
Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.

Exodus 21:20
When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be punished; for the slave is his money

So women must be quiet and only learn from a man. A woman who has premarital sex must be stoned to death. And a slave is property that may be physically punished to the point of near death. These really aren't morals in a society I'd want to live in. That's not to say that the Bible doesn't have good lessons in it. I just think it's dishonest to call it infallible on the basis of what morality should be in toto.
 
Blue Hobgoblin said:
The Bible has many good stories, lessons, and morals. But problems do happen when people start to take every little event in the Bible and say it happened exactly as written. When one reads the Bible, they need to take into account the time period it was written and the bias of humans that wrote it. I do believe the Bible is the word of God and God as far as I know is infallible, but his human interpreters were susceptible to the same biases and prejudices we have.
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I agree, after hundreds and millions of years, the stories tends to be exaggerated or changed completely from how it really happened.
 
Corinthians 34-35
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
I think your example is backwards.In my church(the Church of Christ) we obey this scripture.Women are not allowed to participate in the church service in front of the congragation. To think that this no longer applies means you are(or other people are) trying to update the Bible which,since the old testament, stays the same. Sociaty evolves pass the Bible at it's own perel.
 
to Shuamort.. The Old Testament no longer applies.When Jesus Christ came to the earth in the flesh he started the New Testament which as a Christian I follow. The Jewish people rejected Jesus and still go by the Old Testament.
 
MechMan.... 1.Our Pres. is not an idiot. 2. He talks about God because as Christians that is what we are suppose to do. He usually talks about God in an answer to a question. 3. War IS a terrible thing but has to be done to defend our nation, we would still be a British colony if we never warred.You don't turn the other check with Sept.11 you destroy the people responsible! Justice IS in the Bible. 4. Your right about 1 thing. Christians are not suppose to judge people. We are all sinners nobody is perfect. We are supposed to go out into the world and preach the gospel sharing the good news bringing others to Christ. Sometimes this is mistaken for judging. The people that declare you go to hell if you don't listen to them do more harm than good.
 
Good question!! I was raised as a catholic so I believe in God. The bible is suppose to be the word of God, but how do you know? You have faith that it is but how do you know any of it is half factual or made up stories? If the Roman Empire didn't convert to Christianity, would it still be around? I believe it is all up to the individual to find out what he believes in. I don't believe it should be forced on anyone. How do we know Buddha isn't God? Do you dismiss someone else's idea of religion because it doesn't agree with you? Here's a question. If there is a God, and I hope there is, where has he or she been? How come he hasn't shown him or her self in what, 2000 years. We, as a species, could have used some guidance along time ago. With what's going on in the world, why hasn't he yelled down "hey cut the shit and get your act together"? I know some believe he gave us free will but it is obvious that he intervened before. Why wait so long? :eek:
 
Techincally god/s exist, this is because in order for a god to exist a person has to believe he exists, therefore he is created. (My housemate is a philosophy student lol).

Bush can't be a real christain, christain try to be like Jesus in their everyday lives which is a good thing. What would Jesus Do if the question. What would Jesus have done on Sept 11th? He would turn the other cheek.

But people say you can't turn the cheek to Sept 11th, they are right also. It's politics not a church, action had to be taken.

But here's my point then that religion and politics should never mix, if a REAL christain was President, he would never have attacked - and the people would have been pissed off. Religion is not Politics and Politics is not religion, however some christain fascists want the melding of the two.

Gay Marriage, Abortion etc should be in politics, not religion. Religion restricts choice and choice is what democracy is about.

I don't agree with abortion, but i will defend the women's right to CHOOSE, and thats the big difference.

I happen to think the bible wasn't meant to be a rulebook, it was meant to be a guidebook.
 
Why did God let 9/11 happen?

Anyone consider that maybe we created God in our own mind early in time to believe in someone or something? Think about it, early people worshipped the sun and other elements in the sky or the environment, better yet, there are other Gods in different religions. It can't be a coincidence that, other religions has different Gods. There has to be a good reason for that, we created our own Gods.
 
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Ok let's do an experiment everybody close your eyes and picture that there is no god..... It's not that hard to picture no god is it. So you can say that god is in the eye of the beholder.
 
Nobody can get into the mind of God, and there is no way to know the why of somethings until we see him face to face.Incredibly bad things have been happening since Adam and Eve was thrown out of the Garden of Eden. Man makes his own problems and evil. There are miracles everywhere that are examples of God caring and being involved in what happens here. Why somethings and not others? My mortal finite mind can't come close to knowing what the all knowing, infinite, perfect mind of God. All I can do is trust in Him, and blame only mankind and the ones responsible for the terrible acts that are witnessed daily.
 
alienken said:
Incredibly bad things have been happening since Adam and Eve was thrown out of the Garden of Eden. Man makes his own problems and evil. There are miracles everywhere that are examples of God caring and being involved in what happens here. Why somethings and not others? My mortal finite mind can't come close to knowing what the all knowing, infinite, perfect mind of God. All I can do is trust in Him, and blame only mankind and the ones responsible for the terrible acts that are witnessed daily.
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Then since people do evil things do good people, does this mean god ignores us and lets it happen, or is the devil more powerful than we think. Maybe God and Satan have the same amount of power as it other. Or maybe God and Satan are within us and are part of us. There is no divine god or evil angel, that we have the power to do good and evil ourselves.
Just a thought.

I find the whole Adam & Eve thing although fictionous, quite awe-inspiring.
Mankind gave up bliss, immortality and heaven... for knowledge, to learn and with it maybe the choice not to obey god - people might call it freedom. I find that fasinating.
 
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garzaUK.....God never said that He would protect everyone from bad things happening.You act like this is suppose to be paradise and if it isn't then God does not exist! Talk about an imagination.God IS more powerful than satan but He leaves it up to us and our free will to pick which one we want to serve. I would appreciate it if next time you wasn't so flipant and condesending about something that is so important to me.It's insulting, offensive, and just plain rude.
 
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend you alienken. I was wondering out aloud in my head, pondering if you will. I respect all regions who teach respect and love for your fellow man. I actually do have a good imagination, I'm a writer lol. I didn't mean to be condescending or rude, just posing questions.

Apoligies,
Garza
 
GarzaUK..I accept your apology, I just get aggravated with this thread. My faith is based on the bible. I believe that the Holy Bible is true and accurate. If anyone does not, I can't convince them of it because all I can do is refer them to the bible. There is more and more science proving the existence of God I need to come back with specifics to try and persuade you.
 
alienken said:
Nobody can get into the mind of God, and there is no way to know the why of somethings until we see him face to face.Incredibly bad things have been happening since Adam and Eve was thrown out of the Garden of Eden. Man makes his own problems and evil. There are miracles everywhere that are examples of God caring and being involved in what happens here. Why somethings and not others? My mortal finite mind can't come close to knowing what the all knowing, infinite, perfect mind of God. All I can do is trust in Him, and blame only mankind and the ones responsible for the terrible acts that are witnessed daily.
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Yes man creates their own problems and evil, they also create their own solution (god) Man created god from his own likeness.
 
MeChMAN said:
Yes man creates their own problems and evil, they also create their own solution (god) Man created god from his own likeness.
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Indeed! And the fact that god is "he" and "him" demonstrates this. If there really was a supreme being it would surely not have a geneder!
 
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