Is the Patriarchy a real thing in today's society?

[Bodi]

I don't think you understand how reasoning works if you think this is evidence of anything.

Of course it is evidence of something. You need to figure out what it is instead of dismissing it.

 

[Bodi]

Did you actually read all the lyrics?

What do song lyrics from the 40's have to do with a non.existant rape culture now?

 

[Bodi]

What should we do to encourage women to take these positions? People actually have to apply to them in general to get promoted. You can't force someone to do it. And there you go bringing race into the equation again. My god, I swear it must be hell living in your mind. All you think about are gender and racial politics all day long. Gotta look out for who's being sexist, but oh no! What if someone else is being racist! How do you manage to sleep knowing the world isn't rid of bad people?

^^^ this guy is awesome ^^^

 

[PirateMk1]

Right. USA men are just like Saudi Arabia. Well done.

Rape culture? Phhh... go to your safe space and write a manifesto.

She's probably a cat person.

 

[Bodi]

I mean, alcohol is the number one date rape drug, so please, make fun of that. Classy.

Why does the US Govrrnment allow a known date rape drug to be a legal consumer product then?

Why hasn't Jim Beam been taken to Court?

 

[Bodi]

She's probably a cat person.

Hate those animal rescue shows. Some old lady has 47 starving cats dying behind the couch and covered in fesces. Jeez some people are messed up.

 

[Bodi]

Your "counter-argument" is that the patriarchy doesn't exist because women are inherently inferior at politics, and you don't see a problem with that?

Thanks for making my point without realizing it, i guess.

WHOOSH!

Way way high that one was...

 

[Bodi]

And all this over a song?

where we identify and condemn subtle remnants of patriarchy.

... the man Tells the woman!

 

[Henrin]

Laying the sarcasm on pretty thick there. Do you enjoy mocking your opponents, or are you lashing out because you recognize the validity of the opposition?

I wish there weren't so many women who are too stupid, naïve, or delusional to identify the subtle cues of male dominance that still pervade our society today.

I mean, alcohol is the number one date rape drug, so please, make fun of that. Classy.

Male Feminists are the best defenders of women. :lamo Remember when they supported hook up culture just to get more action? Yeah, that was fun.

 

[Bodi]

Where the hell does the song imply the guy is even close to raping her? Wow, what a stretch.

The part where he is a man.

Pretty simple really... in an extensive rape culture like ours, that is all it takes.

 

[Bodi]

LOL no, i don't.

I'm saying that, ranked relative to other developed nations, we're low in terms of encouraging women to take on these roles and accepting the women who do.

Or do you have some quasi-racist ideology where Swedish women are inherently superior to American women?

Arent Swedish women generally white... like in the USA?

 

[Henrin]

The part where he is a man.

Pretty simple really... in an extensive rape culture like ours, that is all it takes.

I think the line of reasoning comes from the fact that she said "the answer is no".

 

[Bodi]

Is there anything in the lyrics that indicates that she actually wants to stay?

Why do you think women are so pathetic that they cant say what they want and are so easily manipulated?

 

[Bodi]

I think the line of reasoning comes from the fact that she said "the answer is no".

I cant find the lyrics...

 

[calamity]

Poll is incoming.

So the question is very simple: is there a system in our society that excludes women from oppurtunities and positions of power, while men get to make all of the decisions? Or is that not the case at all?

My take is that there isn't any "patriarchy" in today's society. And if there is, they are doing a downright terrible job at keeping women oppressed. Now in other places around the world like Saudi Arabia, there most definitely is a patriarchy, seeing as in those countries women have little to no rights at all.

I went with "other."

Are women oppressed in the US? To that, I say no. But, when I'm asked if men generally have it better than women? Then, the answer is clearly yes. For the most part, men can go anywhere at any time without fear of suddenly being overpowered and raped. It's much safer to be falling down drunk as a dude than it is a chick, for example.

 

[Josie]

Here's another example of sexual assault, I guess. She keeps saying no and trying to walk away. He keeps insisting until she finally gives in. Golden Globe, Oscars and other awards galore --- all for a movie about sexual assault.

 

[Bodi]

Okay, well let's tear this **** apart, shall we.

(I really can't stay) But, baby, it's cold outside
(I've got to go away) But, baby, it's cold outside
(This evening has been) Been hoping that you'd drop in
(So very nice) I'll hold your hands they're just like ice


Okay, first verse, pretty simple. She wants to leave, and he doesn't want her to. This is obviously the first instance where her wishes are refused, it's pretty creepy and sets up the tone of the song. This theme is, and the overall creepiness, is added too by the last line in the stanza, "I'll hold your hands they're just like ice." This brings up the thoughts of a "frigid woman" and his desire for her to losen up. All of this in the context of her clearly stating that she wants to leave.

(My mother will start to worry) Beautiful, what's your hurry
(My father will be pacing the floor) Listen to the fireplace roar
(So really I'd better scurry) Beautiful, please don't hurry
(Well, maybe just half a drink more) Put some records on while I pour

Now, this could be where one could make the argument that she really wants it, but is more worried about the societal reaction to her staying with a man as an unmarried woman. With her referencing her mother and father, yet with the stanza that precedes it, that loses some credibility. She said she wants to leave, yet he is not letting her, and like a lot of women who find themselves in a situation like this, they start trying to appeal to any kind of authority that the man would yield too so that she can leave, because the man here has already demonstrated quite well that he doesn't respect the authority she has over herself. Even if she does really wanna stay, yet is saying no because of societal pressure, she has the right to say no because of societal pressure, or any reason she damn wants. People are allowed to have complex emotions, and people are allowed to make choices. She has not given consent in anyway here, and she has clearly made her desire to leave clear, and since she has not given consent, we can not imagine consent. Saying that she really wants to say is akin to saying, "well, she said no, but her eyes said yes!"

(The neighbors might think) Baby, it's bad out there
(Say what's in this drink) No cabs to be had out there
(I wish I knew how) Your eyes are like starlight now
(To break this spell) I'll take your hat, your hair looks swell

Again, she starts out this verse trying to appeal to someone else's authority, in order to trigger his own response for shame so that she can leave. Her implying that the neighbors might think poorly of the two of them, him especially, is another factor that is driving these appeals to authority. Now, the drink part here is shocking, even as someone else said, it just means that she was noticing the alcohol. Obviously in our minds, a line like, "what's in this drink" brings up images of Bill Cosby, but even if that wasn't the context it is still troubling. Because her surprise by what is in the drink, implies that she wasn't expecting any alcohol. He's just trying to get her drunk, and you can see that with his line, "Your eyes are like starlight now." The twinkling of the eyes implies intoxication, which is what is entire motive is for having another drink.

It's also important to note her last two lines in this stanza, "I wish I knew how To break this spell." This can be read as her starting to blame herself. She is thinking that this guy is so infatuated with her, and if she could only get him to not like her she could get out of here. She's putting this whole situation on her. That it is her responsibility to break down the situation, and that if she can't get out, it's her fault. When in reality, he should just let her out the door and be an adult about the situation. It's kind of amazing how this breaks down into what happens to far too many women.

Continued in part two below.

Oh

My

God

:roll:

Where to even start?

He isnt letting her leave by talking to her?
What a weak way you view women. Victim of words and chooses to be raped instead of standing up and leaving?

He has spiked her drink? Couldnt just be a metaphore or anything. Songs never do that. :roll:

 

[Absentglare]

My sarcasm was implying that I'm stupid, naive and delusional? LOL!

I'm a victim of no one, dear.

Your sarcasm was insulting to your opposition. Perhaps you should put a little thought into your responses.

 

[Absentglare]

Of course it is evidence of something. You need to figure out what it is instead of dismissing it.

It's not evidence for their argument.

What do song lyrics from the 40's have to do with a non.existant rape culture now?

Umm... the woman consistently comes up with reasons to leave, and the man compels her to stay.

Why does the US Govrrnment allow a known date rape drug to be a legal consumer product then?

Why hasn't Jim Beam been taken to Court?

I don't know.

... the man Tells the woman!

This should be about the concepts and not the persons in the discussion.

 

[Absentglare]

Arent Swedish women generally white... like in the USA?

I don't know how to make sense of their argument, i was grasping at straws.

Why do you think women are so pathetic that they cant say what they want and are so easily manipulated?

We're discussing the message in the song.

 

[Absentglare]

Here's another example of sexual assault, I guess. She keeps saying no and trying to walk away. He keeps insisting until she finally gives in. Golden Globe, Oscars and other awards galore --- all for a movie about sexual assault.

I don't think you understand the argument.

 

[Josie]

I don't think you understand the argument.

I'm pretty sure I do. And your condescension toward me continues...

 

[Josie]

It's not that simple Josie. What the lyrics mean today and what they meant a hundred years ago are quite different.

The song was written in the 40s. So what did the lyrics mean originally?

Ahem.

 

[Bodi]

It's not evidence for their argument.

Sure is...

Umm... the woman consistently comes up with reasons to leave, and the man compels her to stay.

He wants to sleep with her. She can say no. She may want an excuse to stay and listens to his reasons to stay. Get over it.

This should be about the concepts and not the persons in the discussion.

The whole issue is about the persons otherwise it wouldnt be a patriarchal discussion.

 

[Bodi]

I don't know how to make sense of their argument, i was grasping at straws.



We're discussing the message in the song.

The message is he wants to have sx with her and she agrees... next?