Is the Earth flat or spheroid?

[Juin]

That's a bit of an over reach.
I am Trump voter
I believe in science
I KNOW the Earth is round
I am NOT religious.

It all depends on the available observations. Flat earth is a valid scientific hypothesis depending on what an observer observed. An observer in an isolated tribe in the Amazon forest is capable of of only observations that lead to a Flat Earth thesis. And that theory must remain True for him until challenged successfully

 

[Gordy327]

It all depends on the available observations. Flat earth is a valid scientific hypothesis depending on what an observer observed. An observer in an isolated tribe in the Amazon forest is capable of of only observations that lead to a Flat Earth thesis. And that theory must remain True for him until challenged successfully

Flat earth has been debunked by science. So it's not true regardless of one's own observation or ignorance.

 

[Helix]

If it's flat, what's on the other side?

It's turtles, all the way down.

 

[GIJane]

It all depends on the available observations. Flat earth is a valid scientific hypothesis depending on what an observer observed. An observer in an isolated tribe in the Amazon forest is capable of of only observations that lead to a Flat Earth thesis. And that theory must remain True for him until challenged successfully

Observation on a limited level does NOT deny reality. Planets by rule are spheroids due to gravitational forces.

Flat Earth isn't a valid hypothesis. It IS an observation based on limited knowledge. Yes, a person in the middle of the rain forest WHO HAS NEVER SEEN, MET, OR OBSERVED ANYONE OUTSIDE THEIR SMALL SPHERE OF EXISTANCE, might THINK the Earth is flat. Anyone outside that VERY limited demographic should not.

 

[Demon]

It's turtles, all the way down.

That's my favorite answer!

 

[Juin]

Hi Hatuey,

They should check embryos for the flat earth syndrome and abort them. Ok, they shouldn't, but you're getting my drift I think...

You feel that threatened by the Flat Earth Hypothesis? And why examine an embryo for Flat Earth Syndrome? Is Round Earth Syndrome detectable at the embryonic stage?

Funny thing though. I have met a lot of people in my life. I never met 1 single flat earther. Is this really a thing, or just an American thing because of lacking education? (Sorry, your suggestion to ruffle a few feathers inspired me... )


Joey

An isolated tribe in the Sahara or Amazon rain forest may be a good start

 

[Juin]

Hey Gordy,

First time I hear the term today. But let me give it a go.

I think we could refer to 'Old Flat Earthers' as people who traditionally believed that the earth was flat based on limited science and common believe. Education was low and superstition was high.

Based on available observations. And why do you believe the Flat Earth Hypothesis requires superstition? Observation is enough to lead to a flat earth hypothesis

A lot of people truly did not think that Columbus would ever return. Even though in Greece they had not only determined, but even calculated the circumference of earth, quite accurately may I add. But give place and time, these people had at least a few valid excuses to believe the earth was flat. Valid, given the circumstances.

The Homo sapiens man dates back as far as 300,000 years ago. Columbus barely 500 plus years ago.

And that brings us to 'New Flat Earthers'. They are the people that live today and try to blow new life in the Flat Earth Movement. Now since education is better than 400-500 years ago, they have to defend themselves. To achieve this they turn to pseudo-science.

And what is that pseudo science?

 

[Juin]

That makes no sense. The earth is an oblate spheroid. Thats science, not religion.

Not if an observer's observations lead to a flat earth hypothesis

Juin said:
You cannot assume there is an "other side" until you dig and arrive there. Does our universe have a limit? If it does what is on the other side?

According to current models of the universe, the universe is infinite and ever expanding.

How is your answer any different from that of the flat earth hypothesis? The question from the round earth poster was what we can find from digging a flat earth. The depth of a flat earth proposition is infinite. The question to you is also what is at the boundaries of the universe. You dont know and give same bull shit answer that it is infinite

 

[Juin]

.

Juin said:
Same science demonstrates a flat earth. It all depends on the observation

Pseudoscience, i.e., BS (or delusion) demonstrates a flat earth. Actual science demonstrates an oblate sheroid.

Science is not superstition. In your hands it comes across as superstition. Actual science can also demonstrate a flat earth. It depends on the observations

 

[Juin]

round and round and round and round.

There is absolutely nothing on this planet (Universe, really) that is naturally flat. NOTHING! And if you want something that is actually flat, you pay a shitload of money for that. Flat is probably the least natural shape in the universe.


Joey

I dont see how the above is relevant to the flat earth or round earth hypotheses

 

[Juin]

Hi Gordy,

Sorry mate, but No. The 'old' version is a different story. For starters, if you said the earth was round, they would burn you, or find an other odd way to shorten your life. That's reason enough to say you think the earth is flat, don't you think?

I must remind you that you proposed testing embryos for flat earth syndrome and aborting

 

[Juin]

There were those who did claim the earth was round. Granted, those views were contradictory to conventional "wisdom" of the time, kind of like the notion of the Sun being the center of the solar system rather than Earth. But there is simply no excuse for the notion of a flat earth to be taken with any serious consideration today.

An isolated tribe in the Sahara desert or Amazon forest has to go by its observations

 

[Hatuey]

Not if an observer's observations lead to a flat earth hypothesis

Juin said:
Does our universe have a limit?

I bet this sounds deep during a mushroom trip.

 

[Juin]

.Juin said:
You cannot assume there is an "other side" until you dig and arrive there. Does our universe have a limit? If it does what is on the other side?
Same question today. Is there alien life out there in the universe?

Hi Juin,

Sorry, but if you really do not know what you're talking about, maybe you should be talking in the first place.

In that case you belong in the world of Inquisitors. I dont believe anyone has a monopoly in the discussion space. Flat earthers should be free to make their case

By definition, a Sphere does not have an other side.

The sphere hypothesis is yours, not mine. You are the spherical earth hypothesist, and I am the flat earth hypothesist.

I can have a surface. It can even have a boundary. But there never is no other side!

Naturally, I have to ask you to present to me the other side of the universe

So if you try to be smart and wanna show me you can dig to the other side, and after a few days of intense digging you appear through the surface on the complete opposite side of earth, you would be on the same surface and still not be on the other side.

Why should you come out on any opposite side if the flat earth has an infinite depth?

And yes, the Universe does have a limit is the general consensus. A boundary. And this boundary lies at approx. 92 billion light years.

Joey

Evasive. What is on the other side of that 92 billion light years?

 

[Juin]

Hi Juin,

It is not a religion. It is a fact. Not one valid argument has ever been presented to disprove the earth is round.


Joey

No scientist shuts down contrary arguments. A spherical earth hypothesist who shuts down flat earth hypothesists is not serving science, but rather is engaging in superstition masquerading as science

 

[Juin]

Galileo Galilei opted that earth was rotating around the sun, and he got himself in a lot of trouble with the Catholic Church.

And what is your fault with the Catholic Church of the time? A scientific hypothesis- from Galileo or not- has to face challenges and come out on top to be accepted. It was impossible at the time to verify expected stellar paralllax

 

[Juin]

Well, if you're on a cruise ship in the middle of an ocean, you should be concerned with falling off the edge of the ocean because the ocean appears to be flat.
Fortunately, with a strong drink in my hand, I can look out across the sea and rely on the ship's captain to not take us over the edge like in some "Pirates of the Caribbean" fantasy.

Why must a flat earth have edges? Can it not be infinitely flat?

 

[Juin]

.

Juin said:
Does our universe have a limit?

I bet this sounds deep during a mushroom trip.

Does our universe have a limit? If it does what is on the other side?

 

[Juin]

Flat earth has been debunked by science. So it's not true regardless of one's own observation or ignorance.

Try to use scientific jargon. In science a theory is True until proven wrong. Both theories that still hold True, and those that have been proven False are part of the world of science. Science produces theories and also proves them wrong. To place science as the anti thesis of theories proven False is to misunderstand the world of science

 

[Juin]

Observation on a limited level does NOT deny reality.

Available data. All instances in time or space have only available data. The life of a nomadic insulated tribe is no less real than that of the world outside it. The observations of some such isolated tribe is real; and leads to a flat earth hypothesis

Planets by rule are spheroids due to gravitational forces.

Why should a tribe thousands of years ago arrive at that proposition?

Flat Earth isn't a valid hypothesis.

It is valid based on the data it is arrived at

It IS an observation based on limited knowledge. Yes, a person in the middle of the rain forest WHO HAS NEVER SEEN, MET, OR OBSERVED ANYONE OUTSIDE THEIR SMALL SPHERE OF EXISTANCE, might THINK the Earth is flat. Anyone outside that VERY limited demographic should not.

All observation is based on limited knowlege. It is always limited compared to observations later down the road. The isolated tribe arrives at its scientific hypothesis based on what it observes. Just like us today. We do not base our hypotheses on knowledge that will be available in 2225.

 

[tharock220]

People sail around the earth constantly. Why don't they fall off the edge.

There's no path through space time that leads you to the edge. When warp drive is invented it be possible to go over the edge.

How many here fish far offshore? On the return to land Why does that lighthouse slowly appear from the horizon?

The path light takes through space time follows an arc.

 

[Hatuey]

Juin said:
Does our universe have a limit?

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."

- attributed to Albert Einstein

 

[JoeyJoystick]

You feel that threatened by the Flat Earth Hypothesis? And why examine an embryo for Flat Earth Syndrome? Is Round Earth Syndrome detectable at the embryonic stage?





An isolated tribe in the Sahara or Amazon rain forest may be a good start

Hi Juin,

Of course I am not threatened, I just struggle to comprehend how people with such vision can possibly provide a contribution to society.

And yes, you can find them. And that is on the same level as what I had suggested earlier. They are excused. But they are also the exception. So that has zero bearing on the discussion.


Joey

 

[JoeyJoystick]

Based on available observations. And why do you believe the Flat Earth Hypothesis requires superstition? Observation is enough to lead to a flat earth hypothesis






The Homo sapiens man dates back as far as 300,000 years ago. Columbus barely 500 plus years ago.





And what is that pseudo science?

Hi Juin,

1 - Not relevant.
2 - Not relevant.
3 - Not the science that we base facts on. It is a collection of statements that appear to be scientific to mislead people into believing something that can be easily disproven with science.


Joey

 

[jaypatriot]

Why must a flat earth have edges? Can it not be infinitely flat?

NO. That would be too weird.