Is the AR-15 effective at 1200 yards?

[Onion Eater]

There is some guy charging people thousands of dollars to teach them how to use their AR-15 at ranges between 900 and 1200 yards.

I think this is ridiculous.

What do you guys think?

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

No.


Google ammo oracle.

 

[rathi]

No way in hell. At those kind of ranges the light bullets will slow down quite significantly. A bullet dropping from super-sonic to sub-sonic speeds will experience transonic drag, which seriously inhibits accuracy. Furthermore, terminal effectiveness of a sub-sonic 77 grain 5.56 bullet is going to fairly miserable. Shooting with effectiveness at those kind of ranges with a rifle requires a considerably larger caliber and a highly skilled user.

 

[Arch Enemy]

No way in hell. At those kind of ranges the light bullets will slow down quite significantly. A bullet dropping from super-sonic to sub-sonic speeds will experience transonic drag, which seriously inhibits accuracy. Furthermore, terminal effectiveness of a sub-sonic 77 grain 5.56 bullet is going to fairly miserable. Shooting with effectiveness at those kind of ranges with a rifle requires a considerably larger caliber and a highly skilled user.

Up to the first period would have sufficed.

 

[braindrain]

Damn. Someone should have told the Army about this before they wasted all that money on those expensive as M24s. What a dam waste of taxpayer money.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Damn. Someone should have told the Army about this before they wasted all that money on those expensive as M24s. What a dam waste of taxpayer money.

uhm..... What does the m24 shoot these days? Hint, not the 5.56.... :doh

 

[braindrain]

Yeah I kind of know that. I was being sarcastic in that if you can shoot just as far with a SPR that what is the need for a m24. Belive me I know there is no way you will ever get that kind of range with a 556

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Yeah I kind of know that. I was being sarcastic in that if you can shoot just as far with a SPR that what is the need for a m24. Belive me I know there is no way you will ever get that kind of range with a 556

:lamo you had me concerned for a second....

 

[bicycleman]

Damn. Someone should have told the Army about this before they wasted all that money on those expensive as M24s. What a dam waste of taxpayer money.

Not to mention that useless M9.

 

[rathi]

Not to mention that useless M9.

I can hunt big five game with an M9, and for the low price of $5000, so can you!

 

[bicycleman]

I can hunt big five game with an M9, and for the low price of $5000, so can you!

You can hunt big game with a 9mm pistol, you know the M92 Beretta that the military has shortened and called the M9?

 

[bicycleman]

A friend of mine just returned from Iraq says he can make accurate shots out to 700 yards with that AR-15. He read the article, and he wants to know what the problem is with the writer?

 

[rathi]

You can hunt big game with a 9mm pistol, you know the M92 Beretta that the military has shortened and called the M9?

My response wasn't obviously sarcastic? Although maybe if you waited till they were sleeping and put the barrel right in its eye socket...

 

[Shep Dawg]

A friend of mine just returned from Iraq says he can make accurate shots out to 700 yards with that AR-15. He read the article, and he wants to know what the problem is with the writer?

700 yards is stretching the limitations of the AR15. 500-600 yards is really about the "effective" range.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

700 yards is stretching the limitations of the AR15. 500-600 yards is really about the "effective" range.

Incorrect. It is a sub 300 yard weapon. At 300 yards you already have around 17" of drop. Its design facilitates closr ranges than what wiki told you.

Most in the "know" already know this.

Especially in todays m4 type configuration.

 

[bicycleman]

My response wasn't obviously sarcastic? Although maybe if you waited till they were sleeping and put the barrel right in its eye socket...

I guess I should have probably put a funny face by my last post regarding that M9, but if the military is serious, they need to go back to the M1911A. Even the Seals use the H & K .45.

To clarify any confusion regarding the AR-15, my friend was talking about hitting a training target, not a confirmed kill. He was fortunate when he went to Iraq since he pulled guard duty on the Kuwait-Iraq border and was only shot at once, and that was by the Alaskan National Guard. Thank God, they couldn't shoot. :lol:

 

[Captain America]

Can an AR-15 get lucky at 1200 yards? I'm sure. But I'm not sure how effective it would be. If I had to set up, with a target expectancy @ 1200 yds., I'd probably leave the AR at home in the safe. Truth is, I wouldn't know what kind of rifle to bring on the job. What would you guys suggest at 1200 yds?

But I have to admit that my exposure to that particular weapon was only twice at the range. I do not own one myself. Yet. :mrgreen:

Being less than a novice, I will enjoy learning more about this weapon as the thread progresses.

Two.

Carry on.

Captain America.

 

[braindrain]

Shooting acruratly at 700m with is BS. I am not saying you would not ever be able to hit a target at 700 but doing it consistently is just not going to happen. Plus like others have said the effectiveness of the 556 round really starts to go down hill past 300m. Not that it is that great anyway

 

[WI Crippler]

You can put a round on a stationary body sized target from 500m with decent success, given time. In combat, the effective range is going to be much less.

 

[rathi]

The SPR version of the ar-15 in the article has an 18 inch barrel, and the best long range 5.56 round available is the mk262 which shoots at 77 grain bullet at 2730 fps. Based on ballistics calculation, the round will still likely be supersonic at 700 yards, although drop is absurd and flight time more than a second. You might be able to hit stationary paper targets at that range, but aimed rifle fire in combat is going to be ineffective.

 

[Dutch]

This is just a case of someone making money by selling a service to people who should know better. However, believe it or not there are a (growing?) number of people who are using the .223 ar platform for a deer rifle here in my state. I don't much care for the cartridge, rifle, or the idea.

 

[Oozlefinch]

Incorrect. It is a sub 300 yard weapon. At 300 yards you already have around 17" of drop. Its design facilitates closr ranges than what wiki told you.

Hell, I regularly popped the "5 ring" at 500 meters. And that was with the older "M-16A1", without the Heavy Barrel, and the crappy first-gen sights where you used Kentucky Windage half the time. I even hit it regularly on the 600 meter line with the M-16A2 (a much improved weapon).

Until I joined the Army 2 years ago, the shortest range I fired for qualification on was 200 meters. And as many rounds were fired at the 300-500 meter lines as were at 200 meters.

I found it somewhat laughable when I found out that the Army considers 300 meters "extreme range". Of course, they also spend much less time in real "shooting techniques", and seem to put more stock in putting volumes of rounds downrange instead of accurate shots.

Now it has been a long time since I was at Edson Range, but I seem to remember that 300 yards was the trajectory intersect point for the M-16A1. At shorter ranges you had to aim lower, because the round was still climbing. And at longer ranges you had to aim higher to accomidate for the drop. But even at 500 yards, it was not 17", more like 12. A shot aimed at the neck normally struck in the center of the chest.

Of course, it is 17" if you are talking about a straight bore-line sighting. And nobody does that unless it is with a pistol at short range (with fixed sights). The reason for the M-16 series having adjustable sights is to compensate for the rise and fall of the round. Even the M1903 had that feature. So when properly sighted in and zeroed, that is very much a non-issue.

And with the A2 and later models, adjusting was so much easier. Simply spin the dial for your estimated range and the sight was moved to account for drop.

 

[braindrain]

Being able to hit paper targets at a range does not equal being effective at 600m in the real world. Being able to acuratlly shoot at long distances is important and the Marine Corps do that real well but at the same time the vast majority of kills in combat happen at 200M or less. So spending a good amount of time working on shorter ranges making quick shoots is also important. Besides the 556 round starts losing effectiveness out past 300M (not that it is that great to begin with)

 

[bicycleman]

Being able to hit paper targets at a range does not equal being effective at 600m in the real world. Being able to acuratlly shoot at long distances is important and the Marine Corps do that real well but at the same time the vast majority of kills in combat happen at 200M or less. So spending a good amount of time working on shorter ranges making quick shoots is also important. Besides the 556 round starts losing effectiveness out past 300M (not that it is that great to begin with)

The military needs to go back to .30 caliber rounds as the standard issue for combat troops.

 

[bicycleman]

This is just a case of someone making money by selling a service to people who should know better. However, believe it or not there are a (growing?) number of people who are using the .223 ar platform for a deer rifle here in my state. I don't much care for the cartridge, rifle, or the idea.

Interesting. I bought the Ruger Mini-14 Ranch Rifle for varmints and just for plinking. I couldn't afford the AR-15, but at least had a decent rifle that used .223's.

Where I live, you can only shoot deer on one side of my road with black powder rifles. On the other side where I live, shotguns only. The street I live on happens to be at the boundary between muzzle loaders and shotguns.