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Is religion and belief in God simple or complex?

it's just me said:
It would be if you didn't think you owned science.
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Atheists, unlike believers, are natural rationalists who depend most often on evidence, and so science would of course mean more to them than to the believers who really instead on “faith”.
 
watsup said:
Atheists, unlike believers, are natural rationalists who depend most often on evidence, and so science would of course mean more to them than to the believers who really instead on “faith”.
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What they depend on is their prejudices, which is NOT science...they make up their minds and then try to find evidence for that.
 
watsup said:
What if pigs could fly?
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“If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, then every day would be Christmas?”

You have a soul, it's at the bottom of your :giggle: foot.
 
NWRatCon said:
I admire your fertile imagination, but you still don't seem to grasp the inherent illogic of your construction. It is the epitome of circularity.

If God exists as an entity, rather than a defect of human intellectual capacity, you'd think he'd give us the power to perceive him and not endow us with the ability to repeatedly demonstrate his non-existence. I can think of half-a-dozen phenomena that were once attributed to "god" that have been thoroughly debunked by advances in scientific understanding. Supernatural phenomena are just as-yet-unexplained natural phenomena.

But, I don't want to get too specific or acidic, because I respect people's right to believe as they wish, so long as it doesn't impinge on my life. As I have previously noted, I respect a great many clerics and what they provide, and I have engaged in my own spiritual path, but that doesn't require me to suspend my own personal disbelief, or ignore the logical operations of my own brain.
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As a living entity, God can project an image outside of you for you to see but that's not where he exists, he lives within you as the foundation of your conscious mind- giving you life. God literally is YOU in that limited form, you just don't know that yet. There's a thin veil (human flesh) and our own experiences and knowledge that separates us giving us a distinct and unique identity from the Father and each other.

He doesn't get directly involved in our choices, so he stays hidden for now for many reasons. One reason is to have you worship your existence and others instead of an authority figure. Number two is so that people aren't preoccupied with making requests and pleas. For now, we must live thru this system to become mature souls and learn to appreciate things. Earth is a sort of an incubator for new gods to be created to eventually populate heaven. There is no judgment or punishment outside of this world, only a great reward.
 
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grip said:
As a living entity, God can project an image outside of you for you to see but that's not where he exists, he lives within you as the foundation of your conscious mind- giving you life. God literally is YOU in that limited form, you just don't know that yet. There's a thin veil (human flesh) and our own experiences and knowledge that separates us giving us a distinct and unique identity from the Father and each other.

He doesn't get directly involved in our choices, so he stays hidden for now for many reasons. One reason is to have you worship your existence and others instead of an authority figure. Number two is so that people aren't preoccupied with making requests and pleas. For now, we must live thru this system to become mature souls and learn to appreciate things. Earth is a sort of incubator for new gods to be created to eventually populate heaven. There is no judgment or punishment outside of this world, only a great reward.
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Blah blah blah.
 
grip said:
As a living entity, God can project an image outside of you for you to see but that's not where he exists, he lives within you as the foundation of your conscious mind- giving you life. God literally is YOU in that limited form, you just don't know that yet. There's a thin veil (human flesh) and our own experiences and knowledge that separates us giving us a distinct and unique identity from the Father and each other.

He doesn't get directly involved in our choices, so he stays hidden for now for many reasons. One reason is to have you worship your existence and others instead of an authority figure. Number two is so that people aren't preoccupied with making requests and pleas. For now, we must live thru this system to become mature souls and learn to appreciate things. Earth is a sort of incubator for new gods to be created to eventually populate heaven. There is no judgment or punishment outside of this world, only a great reward.
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Yes, Alice. And how was the Mad Hatter's Tea Party?
 
grip said:
As a living entity, God can project an image outside of you for you to see but that's not where he exists, he lives within you as the foundation of your conscious mind- giving you life. God literally is YOU in that limited form, you just don't know that yet. There's a thin veil (human flesh) and our own experiences and knowledge that separates us giving us a distinct and unique identity from the Father and each other.

He doesn't get directly involved in our choices, so he stays hidden for now for many reasons. One reason is to have you worship your existence and others instead of an authority figure. Number two is so that people aren't preoccupied with making requests and pleas. For now, we must live thru this system to become mature souls and learn to appreciate things. Earth is a sort of incubator for new gods to be created to eventually populate heaven. There is no judgment or punishment outside of this world, only a great reward.
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How do you know any of this? Sounds like something you made up. You have created a personal belief. I find it to be unsubstantiated nonsense.
 
devildavid said:
So how can you know about this?
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Either I'm a crazy asshole or a well-informed cookie? ;)


devildavid said:
What does self awareness have to do with the physical existence of anything?
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Without an observer, the universe appears without form.


devildavid said:
Yes, god is one of those made up things. God is not a physical thing.
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I bet you'd like to know how god uses a chunk of his infinite energy to create the physical universe?
 
devildavid said:
How do you know any of this? Sounds like something you made up. You have created a personal belief. I find it to be unsubstantiated nonsense.
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If it's nonsense, then ignore it. If it makes better sense than the previous info, then consider it. Either way, our opinions won't change the reality of it.
 
grip said:
Either I'm a crazy asshole or a well-informed cookie? ;)

Without an observer, the universe appears without form.

I bet you'd like to know how god uses a chunk of his infinite energy to create the physical universe?
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I lean toward the former.

You just make stuff up that you think sounds deep but is really just made up nonsense. There are no experts on god, because god is not real. God is made up. God is fact free. So anyone can say anything about what they call god and it is ultimately made up mumbo jumbo. And if you examine most of your claims you have actually ruled out your own ability to make them.
 
grip said:
If it's nonsense, then ignore it. If it makes better sense than the previous info, then consider it. Either way, our opinions won't change the reality of it.
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There is no reality of it other than what you post here really is posted here.
 
zyzygy said:
Consciousness lives on after death? Do you have any proof of that claim?
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Of course, the dark tunnel people all see with a light at the end is them traveling thru time to the end. Can you prove otherwise?
 
devildavid said:
I lean toward the former.

You just make stuff up that you think sounds deep but is really just made up nonsense. There are no experts on god, because god is not real. God is made up. God is fact free. So anyone can say anything about what they call god and it is ultimately made up mumbo jumbo. And if you examine most of your claims you have actually ruled out your own ability to make them.
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Have you ever heard anyone make up such believable nonsense before? Don't worry bro, it's gonna be alright. 😁
 
grip said:
Have you ever heard anyone make up such believable nonsense before? Don't worry bro, it's gonna be alright. 😁
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In this forum, I have heard a lot of made up nonsense in regards to gods, the occult, energy, love, etc. I'm not worried. Are you?
 
devildavid said:
In this forum, I have heard a lot of made up nonsense in regards to gods, the occult, energy, love, etc. I'm not worried. Are you?
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You seem so upset about my theory that I thought you needed some consolation.
 
grip said:
As a living entity, God can project an image outside of you for you to see but that's not where he exists, he lives within you as the foundation of your conscious mind- giving you life. God literally is YOU in that limited form, you just don't know that yet. ....
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I appreciate your belief system, my friend, I really do. I even hold similar views about what a "soul" means. But, the title of this thread is "Is religion and belief in God simple or complex?" It's the "belief in god" part that I think is the focus. It appears to me that in your epistemology, the answer is "simple". It generally is for "believers". My approach to the question is a little different, which is why I don't deem belief alone as sufficient. It's a much more complex and nuanced question.

To me, "god" is a human construct, and religions are merely different formulations to contain and elucidate that construct. God represents those things outside of ourselves that we cannot explain or control. As our knowledge of the world, of how things "work", expands, and has expanded over the centuries, the relevance and urgency of those explanations wanes, along with the importance of "god". Religion, as an ethical construct, can still be a quite influential and important organizational principle, but it is also a two-edged sword, capable of creating intense conflict and great destruction, so has to be approached with a great deal of caution.
 
NWRatCon said:
I appreciate your belief system, my friend, I really do. I even hold similar views about what a "soul" means. But, the title of this thread is "Is religion and belief in God simple or complex?" It's the "belief in god" part that I think is the focus. It appears to me that in your epistemology, the answer is "simple". It generally is for "believers". My approach to the question is a little different, which is why I don't deem belief alone as sufficient. It's a much more complex and nuanced question.

To me, "god" is a human construct, and religions are merely different formulations to contain and elucidate that construct. God represents those things outside of ourselves that we cannot explain or control. As our knowledge of the world, of how things "work", expands, and has expanded over the centuries, the relevance and urgency of those explanations wanes, along with the importance of "god". Religion, as an ethical construct, can still be a quite influential and important organizational principle, but it is also a two-edged sword, capable of creating intense conflict and great destruction, so has to be approached with a great deal of caution.
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I respect your polite reply. The world didn't make a lot of sense to me when I was younger, so I set out on an odyssey to make sense of it. I was as amoral and agnostic as it gets back then. The more I studied though, the more life and God started to make sense. They're one and the same thing.

True, God has all knowledge and is boundless, contrasting us in limited forms. As knowledge increases, there is less reliance on a 'god of the gaps' but a greater need for divine intervention as the world spins out of control. I think God is more interested in us believing in our own lives than any authority figure he might present, hence the hiding. His direct involvement would've been a complete distraction and nullified the quality that we're all equal where it counts. Death, the great equalizer, was laid upon Him on the cross. God didn't want servants but rather companions.
 
watsup said:
Actually, there is no direct correlation between the "rise" in the number of atheists in the Western countries to the "rise" in communism or socialism. That is ridiculous. They are all operating on independent tracks. Your primary goal from your very first post is to SLANDER atheism by linking it to entities that you consider as being NEGATIVE, namely socialism, communism, and anarchism, none of which has any direct connection to atheism no matter how often you try to slur it.
First of all, there are FEWER Communist nations in the world than there were a couple of decades ago due to the break-up of the Soviet Union, so by your "standards" of linking unlike entities, atheism has caused LESS communism, not more.
Secondly, as I have tried to tell you before, atheism is most linked to INDEPENDENT THINKING, which means that the dream political system of an atheist would be DEMOCRACY like in the United States where they can go about their business without the interference of the state in trying to have them adopt a religious outlook. Yes, atheists love DEMOCRACY where they can participate in a forum such as this one if they so desire without the state looking over their shoulder to see if they are being "correct" in their statements about religion, and especially a democracy that includes a First Amendment guaranteeing their right to do both: free speech and freedom FROM religion.
And what are the "two largest Communist nations" that are "secular". You do know that there is no such entity as the Soviet Union any more, right, and that the present Russian state is not formally linked to Communism, right? Rather, it is an oligarch run by a corrupt Putin and his henchmen who skim billions of dollars off of the top of the economy to put in their own pocket. Maybe they are even atheists, but that has no link to them being crooks. That comes from normal human selfishness.
So please quit making inaccurate statement, and even outright falsehoods, in your ongoing attempt to slur atheism. Thank you in advance.
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"You do know that there is no such entity as the Soviet Union any more, right, and that the present Russian state is not formally linked to Communism, right?" This doesn't mean that it wasn't created by atheist visionaries
"break-up of the Soviet Union, so by your "standards" of linking unlike entities, atheism has caused LESS communism, not more" The inevitable breakup of a terrible system does mean that atheism isn't used to create these nations.
"atheism is most linked to INDEPENDENT THINKING, which means that the dream political system of an atheist would be DEMOCRACY" I'm not disagreeing with this, most atheism will believe in western values. BUT the ones that aren't believing in western values are mostly those who are atheist.
No ones saying atheist are inherently bad.
Instead of saying what I'm saying is "ridiculous", or "inaccurate ", why don't you actually debunk it. In fact debunk it from Vladimir Lenin

Lenin: The Attitude of the Workers' Party to Religion

The Attitude of the Workers' Party to Religion
www.marxists.org
 
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