Is President Obama a Far Leftie?....Or something else?

[Jack Hays]

So in a conversation, I had mentioned that Obama and Crew are the Far Left of the Democratic Party and American Politics.

A person responded to me stating: " Obama isn't extreme left wing, LMAO!!!!!!! Ignorance. "


Soooooo... I guess I'm just very confused about what Obama is politically?

If he is not a member of the American Far Left? Just what is he?

If you are a member of the American Left, and you believe that Obama is NOT of your political Camp, then justify that position!

Name Five Important Policies/Actions that Obama has pursued, that the America Left does not support?

Name Five Important Policies/Actions that the American Left wants pursued, that Obama has not addressed?

Show me just how Ignorant I am...

Do it well, and convincingly, and I will never state that Obama is a Leftie again, and I will humbly admit my own ignorance!




If you are NOT a member of the American Far Left, is that where you place Obama? Or is he something else?


If President Obama is not really a supporter of the American Far Left's agenda.... Why does the American Far Left so universally and radically support President Obama?

BHO is personally very far left, but he lacks the courage to pursue a robust leftist course. He therefore presides over an incoherent policy mishmash, of which ACA is the prime example.eace

 

[humbolt]

Form an international perspective, I put him centre to centre-right.

And from a galactic perspective, I put him on the planet, along with a host of other nuts, extremists, and social engineers bent on conforming everyone to their vision of life as they know it should be. They're a pouty bunch when they don't get their way. There's a lot of "getting even" in their blood for perceived wrongs at the hands of others. Always at the hands of others. It's the first, primary requirement.

 

[Carjosse]

And from a galactic perspective, I put him on the planet, along with a host of other nuts, extremists, and social engineers bent on conforming everyone to their vision of life as they know it should be. They're a pouty bunch when they don't get their way. There's a lot of "getting even" in their blood for perceived wrongs at the hands of others. Always at the hands of others. It's the first, primary requirement.

Obama seems to poorly implement Red Tory policy, Americans seems to like to skew their political spectrum to extremes.

 

[Joe1991]

Reading over more posts, it really does seem the issue that some view him based on his stated Ideology and some view him based on his eventual actions. GITMO is a great example. Ideologically there's no question he was fully in favor of getting rid of it completely....based on actions though, this did not happen. Was the former his true feeling and the situation has kept it from being able to occur....or was the final result actually what he desires and personally wants. And how do you personally judge which defines a person? And what of things that are attempted but don't succeed? Do they get counted or not (For example, cap and trade)?

There's no real "right" way to do it...but it's an inconsistency between people that will exist in this debate.

regarding Gitmo, Obama sincerely wants it closed but was stunted by the congress.

But he has not sent one new person there, and has worked to get those cleared of terrorism sent to other countries.

Guantanamo Bay detention camp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Jack Hays]

regarding Gitmo, Obama sincerely wants it closed but was stunted by the congress.

But he has not sent one new person there, and has worked to get those cleared of terrorism sent to other countries.

Guantanamo Bay detention camp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They weren't necessarily cleared of terrorism. They were just released.

 

[humbolt]

Obama seems to poorly implement Red Tory policy, Americans seems to like to skew their political spectrum to extremes.

Love it. What is truly telling is exactly when such extremes began to appear, and in reaction to what. Politics as blood sport is old hat. That it has become soooo bloody of late isn't.

 

[Carjosse]

Love it. What is truly telling is exactly when such extremes began to appear, and in reaction to what. Politics as blood sport is old hat. That it has become soooo bloody of late isn't.

I see you did not understand my post at all, do you even know what a Red Tory is?

 

[humbolt]

I see you did not understand my post at all, do you even know what a Red Tory is?

It's a Canadian thing, so no, I wouldn't normally know such stuff. That doesn't mean I don't in this case, however. You can explain from now until doomsday how Obama is not a dedicated leftist, and you'll be wrong until doomsday. All one has to do is take an even cursory look at his publishing, his public pronouncements prior to assuming office, and the circle of influential friends in which he traveled. It's not rocket science. The only thing that has deterred him is political reality and his own hesitance.

 

[Carjosse]

It's a Canadian thing, so no, I wouldn't normally know such stuff. That doesn't mean I don't in this case, however. You can explain from now until doomsday how Obama is not a dedicated leftist, and you'll be wrong until doomsday. All one has to do is take an even cursory look at his publishing, his public pronouncements prior to assuming office, and the circle of influential friends in which he traveled. It's not rocket science. The only thing that has deterred him is political reality and his own hesitance.

Well for one you are wrong it is a British thing and you still haven't explained what it is.

 

[humbolt]

Well for one you are wrong it is a British thing and you still haven't explained what it is.

Gosh you're smart. If you think for one second I'm going to listen to bilge about Obama being some version of a communitarian conservative, you're nuts. Do you have any idea what a spanked onion is?

 

[Carjosse]

Gosh you're smart. If you think for one second I'm going to listen to bilge about Obama being some version of a communitarian conservative, you're nuts. Do you have any idea what a spanked onion is?

Please tell me how Obama is the leftist anti-Christ you say he is?

 

[humbolt]

Please tell me how Obama is the leftist anti-Christ you say he is?

I don't believe I used the term "anti-Christ". That would be an act of your imagination, I guess. First you tell me what a spanked onion is.

 

[polgara]

Well for one you are wrong it is a British thing and you still haven't explained what it is.

In marine biology, it's a sickness that some fish exhibit. What that has to do with this thread is a mystery to me. Could you explain?

Greetings, Carjosse. :2wave:

 

[Carjosse]

In marine biology, it's a sickness that some fish exhibit. What that has to do with this thread is a mystery to me. Could you explain?

Greetings, Carjosse. :2wave:

Well the Conservatives in Britain and Canada are divided into two factions Red Tories and Blue Tories, Red Tories here used to be members of the Progressive Conservative party which spent most if it's time in opposition to the Liberals but governed for some periods including the late 50s and 80s. Red Tories are still Conservative by our definition but generally beieleve in environmental causes and take a noblesse oblige approach to taxes and welfare. Noblesse oblige is a French concept of noble obligation or if you are rich you have an obligation to pay taxes and support the poor. Red Tories also take our centre on healthcare. Red Tories are also much more socially liberal. It fits Obama pretty well, he just fails at implementing it.

 

[Smeagol]

So in a conversation, I had mentioned that Obama and Crew are the Far Left of the Democratic Party and American Politics.

A person responded to me stating: " Obama isn't extreme left wing, LMAO!!!!!!! Ignorance. "


Soooooo... I guess I'm just very confused about what Obama is politically?

If he is not a member of the American Far Left? Just what is he?

If you are a member of the American Left, and you believe that Obama is NOT of your political Camp, then justify that position!

Name Five Important Policies/Actions that Obama has pursued, that the America Left does not support?

Name Five Important Policies/Actions that the American Left wants pursued, that Obama has not addressed?

Show me just how Ignorant I am...

Do it well, and convincingly, and I will never state that Obama is a Leftie again, and I will humbly admit my own ignorance!




If you are NOT a member of the American Far Left, is that where you place Obama? Or is he something else?


If President Obama is not really a supporter of the American Far Left's agenda.... Why does the American Far Left so universally and radically support President Obama?

On some things I think he is a liberal. Others, I think he's moderate and pretty close to what previous republican presidents have done. However, in America defining a politician's politically is based largely on group teamism and a dose of propaganda. For example, once they were pretty much certain to be their party's nominees, the last two democrat POTUS nominees in a row were both determined to be "the most liberal members of the senate" supposedly based on real data. 2 in a row? My guess is they rewrote the rules each time to cause that outcome BECAUSE they were the nominees but you couldn't convince the party faithful of that.

 

[Deuce]

BHO is personally very far left, but he lacks the courage to pursue a robust leftist course. He therefore presides over an incoherent policy mishmash, of which ACA is the prime example.eace

Ahh yes. "This guy I don't like doesn't display any radical leftist traits, so I'll just say he's a radical leftist on the inside."

You, Jack Hays, must want a Christian version of an Islamic theocracy like Iran, but lack the conviction and courage to admit it on these message boards. Right? Because we can do this now, it seems.

 

[Jack Hays]

Ahh yes. "This guy I don't like doesn't display any radical leftist traits, so I'll just say he's a radical leftist on the inside."

I would like him better if he were a committed leftist. It's the incoherence that puts me off.eace

 

[Hard Truth]

Important left issues that Obama has failed to address adequately:

1. Ending the wars. He took a long time to get out of Iraq and we still have troops and bases there. We are still not out of Afghanistan we will probably still have troops and bases there.

2. Ending torture. The USA has mostly stopped hands-on torture, except for excessive use of solitary confinement which is routinely used on terrorism suspects. We also still do renditions to other countries so that torture can be used for interrogations.

3. Restoring due process. Guantanamo is still open, terrorist suspects are still held for years without trials, usually in solitary confinement. The NSA and other agencies are continuing to invade our privacy without the use of warrants by collecting our meta-data and through other means. The use of assassinations, mostly via drones, has remained the same or increased.

4. Reduce military spending, close most bases outside of the USA and return the military to a defense role. Some cuts have been made, but not significant ones. We are not closing many bases and are establishing new permanent bases in Iraq and Afghanistan. He also came close to getting us in to the Syrian civil war.

5. Punish the perpetrators of fraud that contributed to the economic crisis, help the victims of fraud and underwater homeowners. Businesses too big to fail should be considered tot big to continue to exist. The left wants to break up the near -monopoly power of the mega-corporations that can destroy our economy through greed or incompetence. Very little has been done in these areas.

6. Reduce unemployment and poverty with FDR-type jobs programs. We did have some stimulus funding for state and local public works projects, but not enough to really make a dent in the unemployment problem.

7. Establish Medicare for all or other health system that provides affordable health care for all. Instead we got a system that that maintains insurance company (parasite) profits.

I do not blame Obama alone, the knee jerk Republican opposition to everything he tried to do and the sell-out centrist and rightish Democrats also contributed. He is a centrist too willing to compromise instead of speaking out and fighting for what is best.

I can't think of a single liberal/left issue that he really put a strong effort into addressing. What are the liberal/left issues conservative think that he successfully implemented?

 

[Hard Truth]

I'd Place Obama on the centre left.

5 that Far left does not support and Obama does (Depends on the leftist, but in general):
1. Bailouts of Corporations, would rather see nationalised.
2. Lower taxes on manufacturing industry
3. Failure to close Gitmo
4. Made no effort to keep promise to exit Iraq in 2009. Troops moved to Afghanistan and Iranian border.
5. A $350 billion extension of the Bush tax cuts

5 things the Far left supports but not Obama:
1. Nationalisation of all Industries
2. Nationalisation of all property
3. Huge government welfare program
4. Heavy government intervention in the economy.
5. Eventual dismantling of state (Marxist) / Large, dictatorial government system (USSR/Stalinist)

Why the communist party USA is endorsing Obama?
Since 1988, the CPUSA has not run its own candidates for president and vice-president, preferring instead to work through the Democratic Party.

I don't know how you define define far left, but liberals/progressives do not support nationalization of industry and property, only communists do.

 

[Linc]

The emphasis by DEMs to the left of Mr. Obama on things he hasn't done or done well will cost the DEMs the 2014 election, just as it did in 2010.
DEMs have a history in the last few decades of taking a pass on mid-terms, as they did in 2010 mand 1990.
Then they turn around and bitch about gerry-mandering.
Try voting this time assholes or STFU .

 

[Kurmugeon]

I would like him better if he were a committed leftist. It's the incoherence that puts me off.eace

So as a American Far Leftie, you stand behind Obama as a Lesser of Two Evils?

If not "You" personally, clearly the vast majority of the American Left does and did support him, or we'd have a President Romney.

Do you have any idea how much that brings about the complete defeat of your own cause?

Collectivism is based on TRUST!

No one, particularly a low-mid class family, which is going through the suffering of this economy, is going to voluntarily contribute their best ingredients in large portions, to a Pot-of-Stone-Soup, when they cannot TRUST the cooks to serve them an honest share.

Better the Demon-with-Horns&Barbed-Tail, than the Handsom Lucifer with sly words, at least you know who not to turn your back on!

The common low-mid class people of American will NEVER trust the left, when they back liars and greedy cheats, who spout Leftist rhetoric!

Obama, the Faux-Leftist, has already done far more damage to the American Far Left and their causes than any Republican could achieve on their best day.

Without TRUST, Collectivism ALWAYS FAILS!

 

[Linc]

Your post has a lot to work with.

Important left issues that Obama has failed to address adequately:
Ending the wars. He took a long time to get out of Iraq and we still have troops and bases there.
We are still not out of Afghanistan we will probably still have troops and bases there.

Yet the GOP bashes him on leaving Iraq and Afghan, not towing the Israeli line on Iran, and undermining him with Putin on Syria.

Ending torture. The USA has mostly stopped hands-on torture, except for excessive use of solitary confinement which is routinely used on terrorism suspects. We also still do renditions to other countries so that torture can be used for interrogations.

Torture is both a defense and NSA-type issue.
There is a new coalition in town, Libertarians and Liberal lefts, the Amash amendment.
This is not about Mr. Obama, it is about Neo-Cons.

 

[Jack Hays]

So as a American Far Leftie, you stand behind Obama as a Lesser of Two Evils?

If not "You" personally, clearly the vast majority of the American Left does and did support him, or we'd have a President Romney.

Do you have any idea how much that brings about the complete defeat of your own cause?

Collectivism is based on TRUST!

No one, particularly a low-mid class family, which is going through the suffering of this economy, is going to voluntarily contribute their best ingredients in large portions, to a Pot-of-Stone-Soup, when they cannot TRUST the cooks to serve them an honest share.

Better the Demon-with-Horns&Barbed-Tail, than the Handsom Lucifer with sly words, at least you know who not to turn your back on!

The common low-mid class people of American will NEVER trust the left, when they back liars and greedy cheats, who spout Leftist rhetoric!

Obama, the Faux-Leftist, has already done far more damage to the American Far Left and their causes than any Republican could achieve on their best day.

Without TRUST, Collectivism ALWAYS FAILS!

I personally am by no means on the left, but I respect those who are committed and courageous.eace

 

[Hard Truth]

People need to stop perpetuating this propoganda line.

The ACA is not the "Heritage Foundation Plan".

Secondly, this highlights the problem with such a question. There's two potential answers really...what someone's IDEOLOGY is and what someones RESULTS are.

I would say Obama is a somewhat pragmatic staunchly left wing individual.

For example, you say Liberals wanted a single payer healthcare system. Obama himself has been on record as wanting a single payer healthcare system. Ideologically, that matches up exactly. However, he was pragmatic in his approach understanding that even with a Democratic Majority in congress he had a hard time pushing through a version of health care focused around insurance reform let alone actual "Single Payer".

The Assault Weapon Ban and guns in general are another perfect example. Ideologically, it's quite clear that he is for significantly stronger regulation upon firearms and related items, including outright bans of some. However, pragmatically, all he can really do is threaten...there's only so far he can go with executive actions, and ultimately he'd need a congress to help him that has no desire to do such.

Even in terms of national security issues, Ideologically there's evidence of Obama having been pretty soundly in line with what you've outlined in terms of thought processes. However, back to the pragmatic part, once able to see the full scope of the NatDef situation he seems to have pulled back on many of those things that were so prominent in his career prior to becoming President.

Barack Obama is an ideoligical staunch liberal whose Presidency has been faced with an early portion where he had to deal with a segment of moderate Democrats in congress to get his way, and in the later portion has deal with half of congress being Republicans which required political manuevering and pragmatism to get agenda items done.

I mostly agree with this assessment except that I think Obama needs to be held responsible for not trying hard enough to speak out and strongly advocate for the best policies and fighting to implement them. The 2008 candidate Obama was a liberal. President Obama is too much of a centrist compromiser to qualify as a liberal/leftist.

 

[Hard Truth]

BHO is personally very far left, but he lacks the courage to pursue a robust leftist course. He therefore presides over an incoherent policy mishmash, of which ACA is the prime example.eace

It is not very often I agree with you, but I mostly do this time, except I would describe him as liberal, not far left.