Is Netanyahu's plan to make Israel a terrorist state? (the booby-trapped pagers affair)

[Deuce]

Collateral damage.

Tolerated (and probably supported) terrorists amongst them.

It was a broad, untargeted attack. They didn't know the identities of anyone hit.

 

[Mr Person]

Do people seriously not see how lopsided it is to take the position that Israel is not allowed to fight back if it might accidentally kill civilians, so it just has to let Hezbollah and Hamas constantly murder its citizens?

I get it. Your enemy being a monstrous doesn't mean you get to do whatever the **** you want. BUT YOU GET TO FIGHT. And fighting is going to kill people. Have some ****ing perspective.

Stop pretending that Israel fighting back against terrorists dedicated to destroying it and killing all the Jews, that that is actually Israel nefariously plotting genocides and and grabs. These threads would have more weight if the people making them did not react to literally everything Israel does in fighting back as a dirty scheming plot to do evil.



What's Israel supposed to do? They send in the army and Hezbollah isn't going to form up to fight like an army. They'll make sure that for every one of them that dies, five civilians do. And then you'd be condemning them for that. Instead, they use a strategy that kills far less civilians than invasion would. And you condemn them for that, too.

And you know...it's striking that I've never seen anyone attempt to suggest any alternative strategy. It's just...whatever Israel does is bad mean genocide, no further analysis. No "but they could have done this, and here is why I think it would work".

 

[Surrealistik]

Do people seriously not see how lopsided it is to take the position that Israel is not allowed to fight back if it might accidentally kill civilians, so it just has to let Hezbollah and Hamas constantly murder its citizens?

I get it. Your enemy being a monstrous doesn't mean you get to do whatever the **** you want. BUT YOU GET TO FIGHT. And fighting is going to kill people. Have some ****ing perspective.

Stop pretending that Israel fighting back against terrorists dedicated to destroying it and killing all the Jews, that that is actually Israel nefariously plotting genocides and and grabs. These threads would have more weight if the people making them did not react to literally everything Israel does in fighting back as a dirty scheming plot to do evil.

So fight back in a way that isn't indiscriminate and doesn't categorically violate IL while also victimizing far more civilians and uninvolved parties than enemy militants.

 

[Cosmo]

They blew up thousands of pagers. That's indiscriminate.

It was a broad, untargeted attack. They didn't know the identities of anyone hit.

Yeah just random people's pagers. In 2024.

This is the indiscriminate part for those wondering.

OK dude you convinced me, anyone who ever in a war kills even one noncombatant, is a terrorist same as Osama bin Laden.

 

[Felis Leo]

The problem of course arises when most of the people killed and wounded during your egregious violation of international law are civilians, because you cannot control exactly who has and is in the kill radius of your rigged devices at the time of detonation. It has zero to do with Israel's Jewishness, and everything to do with their willful violation of international law and open willingness to victimize civilians for merely a chance, not a surety, of killing/maiming combatants; this would be a travesty no matter who did it.

What would be the appropriate response to a terror organization operating out of a hostile neighboring country (whose government is too weak to stop the terror organization) raining missiles onto your country? A full scale military invasion? Air strikes? Commando raids? Because if the only thing you care about are civilian casualties in the host country I think any of these methods would increase them.

 

[TangoNoCash]

Do people seriously not see how lopsided it is to take the position that Israel is not allowed to fight back if it might accidentally kill civilians, so it just has to let Hezbollah and Hamas constantly murder its citizens?

I get it. Your enemy being a monstrous doesn't mean you get to do whatever the **** you want. BUT YOU GET TO FIGHT. And fighting is going to kill people. Have some ****ing perspective.

Stop pretending that Israel fighting back against terrorists dedicated to destroying it and killing all the Jews, that that is actually Israel nefariously plotting genocides and and grabs. These threads would have more weight if the people making them did not react to literally everything Israel does in fighting back as a dirty scheming plot to do evil.



What's Israel supposed to do? They send in the army and Hezbollah isn't going to form up to fight like an army. They'll make sure that for every one of them that dies, five civilians do. And then you'd be condemning them for that. Instead, they use a strategy that kills far less civilians than invasion would. And you condemn them for that, too.

And you know...it's striking that I've never seen anyone attempt to suggest any alternative strategy. It's just...whatever Israel does is bad mean genocide, no further analysis. No "but they could have done this, and here is why I think it would work".

So should police commit crimes to catch criminals?

 

[Deuce]

Yeah just random people's pagers. In 2024.


OK dude you convinced me, anyone who ever in a war kills even one noncombatant, is a terrorist same as Osama bin Laden.

The people who think we should give teachers guns also think we should kill people for having pagers.

 

[Cosmo]

So fight back in a way that isn't indiscriminate and doesn't categorically violate IL while also victimizing far more civilians and uninvolved parties than enemy militants.

And humanely. Maybe Israel can send some veterinarians to put the Hezbollah fighters to sleep?

 

[Deuce]

Do people seriously not see how lopsided it is to take the position that Israel is not allowed to fight back if it might accidentally kill civilians,

This is nobody's ****ing position and lying in this manner to defend mass murder just shows what kind of person you really are.

 

[Cosmo]

The people who think we should give teachers guns also think we should kill people for having pagers.

Yes that's clearly why they were killed. Random people with pagers. In 2024.

 

[TangoNoCash]

OK dude you convinced me, anyone who ever in a war kills even one noncombatant, is a terrorist same as Osama bin Laden.

You convinced yourself of that. I said no such thing.

 

[Deuce]

Yes that's clearly why they were killed. Random people with pagers. In 2024.

I think anyone with a gun should be assumed to be a terrorist.

 

[Cosmo]

You convinced yourself of that. I said no such thing.

So is collateral damage allowed or not? Your previous post seemed to suggest that it's not.

 

[zincwarrior]

Nope. No one is planning to make Israel a terrorist state. Your state, Florida, umm ....

Yes, a super terrorist state. The BEST Terrorist state!

 

[mrjurrs]

Does the Geneva Convention apply to recognized militant terror organizations that are not part of any sovereign nation's official military? I was under the impression that non-state actors acting outside the capacity of a sovereign nation's armed forces are not given the considerations of the Geneva convention.

The considerations on this belong to Israel. They are the ones (I think) that sent the unburied land mines into the world.

 

[Surrealistik]

What would be the appropriate response to a terror organization operating out of a hostile neighboring country (whose government is too weak to stop the terror organization) raining missiles onto your country? A full scale military invasion? Air strikes? Commando raids? Because if the only thing you care about are civilian casualties in the host country I think any of these methods would increase them.

Honestly, drone strikes (especially given the huge advances made here since Iraq; UKR manages astonishing miracles of precision on shoelace budgets with their drones regularly, including maneuvering them inside of drone cage slits, bunkers and buildings; surely Israel can duplicate at least some of that magic) and commando raids would be better options for minimizing casualties than sabotaging civilian goods and basically praying they're in and around all of the right hands when they're detonated.

And humanely. Maybe Israel can send some veterinarians to put the Hezbollah fighters to sleep?

See above.

 

[mrjurrs]

Fight terror with terror. Combat killing innocent people with killing innocent people. Isn’t this world great?

Congratulations to Israel, they've found a new way to generate another generation of terrorists.

Funeral Held For 9-Year-Old Girl Killed In Lebanon Pager Explosions

Fatima Abdullah had recently started fourth grade.

www.huffpost.com

 

[Common Sense 1]

The Geneva convention defines "booby-trap" as

"Any device or material designed, constructed or adapted to kill or injure and which functions unexpectedly when a person disturbs or approaches an apparently harmless objects or performs an apparently safe act. Booby-traps also include manually-emplaced devices designed to kill, injure or damage and which are actuated by remote control or automatically after a lapse of time. Their use is prohibited by precise rules."​

So if the Israeli government is responsible for this act, they have committed an act of terrorism. And, unfortunately, it looks like they have.

Don't get me wrong: I support Israel. Israel was the victim on October 7. But ever since then, Netanyahu has done the WRONG things over and over. If he ordered this, or if he even KNEW of this, he is officially a terrorist.

This is yet another reason why the israeli people need to get rid of this creep! Israel has a right to exist. So does Palestine. This will not end until there is a two-state solution. I don't know if that's possible or not, but it's clear that Bibi is the biggest impediment.

What does the Geneva convention think about the October 7th massacre?

 

[Deuce]

So is collateral damage allowed or not? Your previous post seemed to suggest that it's not.

Randomly and blindly blowing up civilians is not allowed, correct.

 

[Cosmo]

Honestly, drone strikes (especially given the huge advances made here since Iraq; UKR manages astonishing miracles of precision on shoelace budgets with their drones regularly; surely Israel can duplicate at least some of that magic) and commando raids would be better options for minimizing casualties than sabotaging civilian goods and basically praying they're in and around all of the right hands when they're detonated.

See above.

Wait so you really think Israel sabotaged some random civilian beepers in 2024 and then blew them up in hopes that someone would kill Hezbollah fighters? Really?

The obtuseness is palpable...

 

[Deuce]

What does the Geneva convention think about the October 7th massacre?

Are you admitting to being as bad a person as those terrorists?

 

[Deuce]

Wait so you really think Israel sabotaged some random civilian beepers in 2024 and then blew them up in hopes that someone would kill Hezbollah fighters? Really?

The obtuseness is palpable...

That is literally what happened. They blew up thousands of them, with no way of having the slightest idea of who was carrying any of them.

 

[Surrealistik]

Wait so you really think Israel sabotaged some random civilian beepers in 2024 and then blew them up in hopes that someone would kill Hezbollah fighters? Really?

The obtuseness is palpable...

The obvious problem is that you can only be so precise when conducting sabotage at the manufacturing level, and Israel knows this; you are playing probabilities at best. You simply cannot control who has what and who is in the kill zone.

 

[Cosmo]

Randomly and blindly

They're beepers. In 2024. Take a step back from the keyboard, take a deep breath, sit back down, take a nice, long sip of that apple juice from your spill proof sippy cup, and see if you reach a different conclusion.

I won't hold my breath.

 

[Common Sense 1]

Are you admitting to being as bad a person as those terrorists?

^^Please stop posting such stupid stuff! ^^
Why would you support what happened on Oct 7th?