Is Kilmar a bad man or just a patsy ?

[panic buyer]

Some demanded he get more ‘due process’ and now complain when that’s being done.

Again the point is that due process has been screwed up by the trump regime. A nation of laws understands that.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Nope. He used the cartels to label the country but it applies to all males 14 and older from that country.

Citation required.

 

[trumptman]

Nope, you seem to have ignored that (bolded above). It only applies to ‘terrorists’ or ‘gang members’ (aka enemies) from those “specific countries”. Obviously, not every foreign national from those “specific countries” is a ‘terrorist’ or ‘gang member’.

To clarify for you and anyone who doesn't remember their history and remember why it was controversial for Trump to invoke the AEA, the last time it was used was with Japanese Internment Camps.

Did they verify every Japanese person was a cartel member or terrorist or were they just Japanese nationals?

You'll be sure to show us your law degree as well since you are a legal expert.

I understand that the news has tried to perpetuate a narrower view but the actual text of the act itself is clear.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Again the point is that due process has been screwed up by the trump regime. A nation of laws understands that.

OK, but this is an attempt to fix that ‘screw up’ by giving him ‘due process’.

 

[trumptman]

Citation required.

Alien and Sedition Acts - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Alien and Sedition Acts (1798)

EnlargeDownload Link Citation: An Act Concerning Aliens, July 6, 1798; Fifth Congress; Enrolled Acts and Resolutions; General Records of the United States Government; Record Group 11; National Archives. View the Alien Act in the National Archives Catalog View the Sedition Act in the National...

www.archives.gov

The Alien Enemies Act, Explained

This detention and deportation power poses an alarming risk of abuse and rights violations in both wartime and peacetime.

www.brennancenter.org

What is the Alien Enemies Act?​

The Alien Enemies Act of 1798 is a wartime authority that allows the president to detain or deport the natives and citizens of an enemy nation. The law permits the president to target these immigrants without a hearing and based only on their country of birth or citizenship. Although the law was enacted to prevent foreign espionage and sabotage in wartime, it can be — and has been — wielded against immigrants who have done nothing wrong, have evinced no signs of disloyalty, and are lawfully present in the United States. It is an overbroad authority that may violate constitutional rights in wartime and is subject to abuse in peacetime.

I gave you three.

 

[BabaVoss]

Trump gets everything wrong. This isn’t hard.
Charges and court first.
THEN incarceration.

 

[panic buyer]

OK, but this is an attempt to fix that ‘screw up’ by giving him ‘due process’.

The courts have forced him but its an imperfect process. The jury pool is contaminated.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Alien and Sedition Acts - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Alien and Sedition Acts (1798)

EnlargeDownload Link Citation: An Act Concerning Aliens, July 6, 1798; Fifth Congress; Enrolled Acts and Resolutions; General Records of the United States Government; Record Group 11; National Archives. View the Alien Act in the National Archives Catalog View the Sedition Act in the National...

www.archives.gov

The Alien Enemies Act, Explained

This detention and deportation power poses an alarming risk of abuse and rights violations in both wartime and peacetime.

www.brennancenter.org

I gave you three.

OK, but:

As noted above, Mr. Abrego Garcia was deported pursuant to the INA, and not the AEA. He is a Salvadoran national and the AEA was invoked only as to members of TDA. However, his deportation was illegal and unlawful because of an Immigration Judge order issued in 2019 that forbade his deportation to El Salvador.

What Is Happening With the Alien Enemies Act, Kilmar Abrego Garcia, and the Salvadoran Prison Known as CECOT?  | Catholic Legal Immigration Network, Inc. (CLINIC)

This article summarizes the litigation around the use of the Alien Enemies Act (AEA) against alleged members of the Venezuelan gang, Tren de Aragua (TDA). It also discusses the case of the wrongly deported Salvadoran man, Kilmar Abrego Garcia, and the political and legal efforts to facilitate...

www.cliniclegal.org

 

[Airyaman]

Even Snopes, who certainly does not want to cut Trump any slack, understood this.

Did Trump understand it though?

 

[VanceMack]

You mean is the MS13 gang member that has been implicated in human trafficking (at least) and beat the shit out of his wife on at least two occasions a 'bad man'?

Is that really a question being asked?

 

[Mycroft]

Is Kilmar a bad man or just a patsy ?​

He's both.

Illegal alien, human trafficker, wife abuser...he's a criminal and a bad man.

The guy who hired him to transport illegal aliens across the country threw him under the bus...he's a patsy.

 

[VanceMack]

Is Kilmar a bad man or just a patsy ?​

He's both.

Illegal alien, human trafficker, wife abuser...he's a criminal and a bad man.

The guy who hired him to transport illegal aliens across the country threw him under the bus...he's a patsy.

This topic and question are essentially the same as asking all the "Free Palestine!" nitwits in the country if they would support bringing into the country 100s of thousands (if not millions) of people that would be dedicated to killing LGBTQ+ people for nothing more than their lifestyle choices.

 

[trumptman]

Did Trump understand it though?

Did the person declaring it was "photoshopped" understand that annotating a photo is not "photoshopping" it?

I mean we are talking about a professional journalist. The world should be "altered" or "faked".

Trump understood and continues to understand what he is saying. The media, not so much.

 

[trumptman]

OK, but:

What Is Happening With the Alien Enemies Act, Kilmar Abrego Garcia, and the Salvadoran Prison Known as CECOT?  | Catholic Legal Immigration Network, Inc. (CLINIC)

This article summarizes the litigation around the use of the Alien Enemies Act (AEA) against alleged members of the Venezuelan gang, Tren de Aragua (TDA). It also discusses the case of the wrongly deported Salvadoran man, Kilmar Abrego Garcia, and the political and legal efforts to facilitate...

www.cliniclegal.org

Your immigration advocacy group sees it differently?

How surprising!

 

[panic buyer]

You mean is the MS13 gang member that has been implicated in human trafficking (at least) and beat the shit out of his wife on at least two occasions a 'bad man'?

Is that really a question being asked?

Alleged. This lynch mob justice should have been left behind in the old west.

 

[Airyaman]

Did the person declaring it was "photoshopped" understand that annotating a photo is not "photoshopping" it?

I mean we are talking about a professional journalist. The world should be "altered" or "faked".

Trump understood and continues to understand what he is saying. The media, not so much.

When you add something directly to a photo or otherwise alter it, it is considered "photoshopped".

https://www.computerhope.com/jargon/p/photoshopped.htm

 

[StillBallin75]

At a distance from this I find it hard to understand. If he was guilty then surely putting him on trial would be just the thing.
But all the bullshit surrounding this case suggests that it might be just a show of strength. The doctored tattoos, the margaritas and the cos playing El \Salvador president suggest as much.

If he is a guilty man then I do wonder if we will see a fair trial in this case. Mr Kilmar has already been tried on social media by people who should know better.

Its a bit of a mess and I cant see how the US wins given the shambles that has led us to this point.

The charges are bullshit to anyone with a bit of common sense.

Luckily in this country we still have a semblance of independent judiciary when the government tries to present its bullshit case to the judge.

Chief Prosecutor Resigned Over Kilmar Abrego Garcia Indictment, Feared Case Pursued for ‘Political Reasons’: Report

The indictment of Kilmar Abrego Garcia led to the resignation of a top federal prosecutor, according to a report by ABC News.

www.mediaite.com

 

[ElChupacabra]

At a distance from this I find it hard to understand. If he was guilty then surely putting him on trial would be just the thing.
But all the bullshit surrounding this case suggests that it might be just a show of strength. The doctored tattoos, the margaritas and the cos playing El \Salvador president suggest as much.

If he is a guilty man then I do wonder if we will see a fair trial in this case. Mr Kilmar has already been tried on social media by people who should know better.

Its a bit of a mess and I cant see how the US wins given the shambles that has led us to this point.

It's a clown show. That the administration spent more time vilifying him publicly than deporting him properly led to this mess. Had the government taken the time to find a third party country to deport him to they would have avoided the legal mess that went straight up to the Supreme Court and put them on the back foot. Whether or not he is a good person or not is hard to know, but I guess we'll find out what kind of case they make against him.

 

[panic buyer]

It's a clown show. That the administration spent more time vilifying him publicly than deporting him properly led to this mess. Had the government taken the time to find a third party country to deport him to they would have avoided the legal mess that went straight up to the Supreme Court and put them on the back foot. Whether or not he is a good person or not is hard to know, but I guess we'll find out what kind of case they make against him.

I think trump has a more sinister aim in mind with his nazi raids. It looks like he is deliberately provoking riots so that he can impose some sort of martial law on the US.
Who would stop him ?
In that respect Mr Kilmer is small fish.

 

[JMB1911A1]

What Trump held up for the cameras was a Photoshopped image. Trump must have been aware of this blatant disinformation.

Those are called labels. They are placed on photos all the time to explain things to people.

Photo Trump shared of Abrego Garcia's tattoos real but altered; no evidence they're gang-related

U.S. President Donald Trump held up a photo supposedly showing that Kilmar Abrego Garcia's hand tattoos meant he was a member of the MS-13 gang.

www.snopes.com

 

[What if...?]

The tattoos were not doctored. People put the information to explain what they meant since most laypersons are not cartel members who use tattoos to identify their fellow cartel members.

Photo Trump shared of Abrego Garcia's tattoos real but altered; no evidence they're gang-related

U.S. President Donald Trump held up a photo supposedly showing that Kilmar Abrego Garcia's hand tattoos meant he was a member of the MS-13 gang.

www.snopes.com

Even Snopes, who certainly does not want to cut Trump any slack, understood this.

The photo shows you that for example the marijuana leaf stands for M.

Now the interpretation can be discussed but those tattoos do exist on his hand. That's a fact.

Why didn’t they use it for the “13”? M is the thirteenth letter of the alphabet. It’s been used as code for marijuana forever.

 

[j brown's body]

The tattoos were not doctored. People put the information to explain what they meant since most laypersons are not cartel members who use tattoos to identify their fellow cartel members.

Photo Trump shared of Abrego Garcia's tattoos real but altered; no evidence they're gang-related

U.S. President Donald Trump held up a photo supposedly showing that Kilmar Abrego Garcia's hand tattoos meant he was a member of the MS-13 gang.

www.snopes.com

Even Snopes, who certainly does not want to cut Trump any slack, understood this.

The photo shows you that for example the marijuana leaf stands for M.

Now the interpretation can be discussed but those tattoos do exist on his hand. That's a fact.

Where is the evidence the tattoos are gang related?

Experts cast doubt on Trump's claim that Abrego Garcia's finger tattoos prove MS-13 membership

Gang experts and researchers said that while tattoos could carry gang-related meaning, they aren't enough to prove gang membership.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Xilnik]

You havent proved he is "illegal". The place to do that is in a court room. I thought America felt strongly about rights. You prove me wrong.
You cant have faceless bureaucrats making these decisions. Like soviet ruddia or nazi Germany.

I'm going to argue semantics here because he is proven to be an illegal immigrant. He remains in the U.S. as a documented, illegal immigrant in the U.S. What he has is a withholding from being sent to El Salvador. There's some stickiness as to whether that also includes a withholding from being sent to Guatemala because one judge inexplicably cited that country in an order, but that's not really a concern since his home country is El Salvador. Typically, ICE does not find a third country that is willing to take such individuals, so they are given a probation-like status with ICE check-ins to keep their work permits updated. That generally goes on indefinitely as long as the person follows those orders in good faith and avoids committing other, more serious crimes. Garcia was, from all reports, following the law to that regard and in no danger of deportation until the ICE administrative error occurred that sent him to CECOT.

Now, all of the above is currently under legal challenge with the new charges, but his withholding(s) still exists (exist) until the courts determine the legality of the claims surrounding Garcia being a terrorist and reassesses his status.

In terms of the rest of what you said, I agree about the Executive Branch's overreach and the concerns it has caused within our constitution and the constitutional rights of people who live in the U.S.

 

[Xilnik]

Not anyone. Trump listened specific countries and the nationals from the country to whom it applied.

Try to keep up.

The only country listed is Venezuela, and the only gang mentioned is Tren de Aragua. The President is overreaching by lumping other gangs and other nations into his proclamation. At some point, I hope the Judiciary will do the right thing and nail him on it. That you think his AEA proclamation includes other gangs and other nations only magnifies the dangers that are occurring in our country with misinformation and disinformation.

Invocation of the Alien Enemies Act Regarding the Invasion of The United States by Tren De Aragua

BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA A PROCLAMATION Tren de Aragua (TdA) is a designated Foreign Terrorist Organization with thousands of

www.whitehouse.gov

 

[Xilnik]

Citation required.

Alien and Sedition Acts - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Alien and Sedition Acts (1798)

EnlargeDownload Link Citation: An Act Concerning Aliens, July 6, 1798; Fifth Congress; Enrolled Acts and Resolutions; General Records of the United States Government; Record Group 11; National Archives. View the Alien Act in the National Archives Catalog View the Sedition Act in the National...

www.archives.gov

The Alien Enemies Act, Explained

This detention and deportation power poses an alarming risk of abuse and rights violations in both wartime and peacetime.

www.brennancenter.org

I gave you three.

It no longer applies only to males, as of 1918.

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title50/chapter3&edition=prelim

To clarify for you and anyone who doesn't remember their history and remember why it was controversial for Trump to invoke the AEA, the last time it was used was with Japanese Internment Camps.

Did they verify every Japanese person was a cartel member or terrorist or were they just Japanese nationals?

You'll be sure to show us your law degree as well since you are a legal expert.

I understand that the news has tried to perpetuate a narrower view but the actual text of the act itself is clear.

The proclamation provided for Japanese internment was less specific and only applied to people carrying identification cards, "requiring non-U.S. citizens from World War II-enemy countries—Italy, Germany and Japan—to register with the United States Department of Justice."

Proclamation 2537—Regulations Pertaining to Alien Enemies | The American Presidency Project

www.presidency.ucsb.edu

FDR orders “alien enemies” to register | January 14, 1942 | HISTORY

On January 14, 1942, President Franklin D. Roosevelt issues Presidential Proclamation No. 2537, requiring non-U.S. citizens from World War II-enemy countries—Italy, Germany and Japan—to register with the United States Department of Justice. Registered persons were then issued a Certificate of...

www.history.com