If those who love to wrap themselves with the name "Christian" would live his teachings instead of perverting them and taking his name in vain....there would be no conflict.
If you're a baker who advertised his baking services, it isn't violating your religion to bake what you advertised. Wal-Mart can't follow you home and make sure you aren't using that KY jelly to masturbate. No one is forcing Christians to get gay married, they're simply saying if you advertise a service you can't deny it to someone based on their sexual orientation. That's discrimination, not a violation of your religion.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say you can't interact economically with homosexuals. Why doesn't it violate their religion to sell me, an atheist, a pizza?
That is unfortunately not true. Christ taught a definite Doctrine of Sin, which the modern West rejects.
Actually...it is very true. Christ would look at the bigots of today in exactly the same way he viewed the Pharisees....because they are almost exactly the same.
You are conflating two non-identical things. Selling pizza slices to anyone who walks through the door =/= catering a gay wedding. One of these (as the post you were responding to delineated) is taking part in a ceremony that violates your faith.
So why is it on the homosexual top ten to discriminate against Christians? I hear the pizza restaurant in IN even got death threats.
Huck may be a nut, or may be not, I don't know him well enough to say. Let him speak just as everyone else is entitled to their opinions.
Everyone seems to cheer when someone speaks out against Christians. May be he has a point, although he could have made a better argument.
So why is it on the homosexual top ten to discriminate against Christians?
:shrug: I'm sure there is plenty of overlap between the Pharisee's with their endless, pointless, ever-finer delineation of rules and modern promulgators of ever-more-complex Speech Codes.
However, the fact remains that Jesus preached things that the modern West likes to reject and ignore - Christians living in faithfulness to His teachings are absolutely going to run up against the world. And, as Jesus said, that is to be expected.
It's not. 99% of homosexuals just want to be left alone without being discriminated against.
...as does 99% of any group.... including Christians.
I've actually never seen a wedding that provides food during the ceremony. It's almost always the after party.
You don't get to discriminate against someone just because you find them icky.
When Jesus fed the poor he didn't ask about their sexual orientation first.
You are conflating two non-identical things. Selling pizza slices to anyone who walks through the door =/= catering a gay wedding. One of these (as the post you were responding to delineated) is taking part in a ceremony that violates your faith.
If I sell pizza then why would it matter if were ordered by/delivered to "sinners"?
What is the biblical/religious basis for this objection? I have yet to see where Jesus said not to sell/serve food to homosexuals or any other "sinners".
Many Christians, certainly on the conservative side, are linking the survival of Christianity to their ability to discriminate against gays. They need to discriminate against gays in order to be true Christians.
You are conflating dissimilar things. We aren't talking about A Gay Guy Walks Up To The Counter And Orders A Deep Dish With Extra Cheese And Bacon, we are talking about supporting wedding ceremonies. It's not the identity, but rather the activity, that is being refused.
No, many Christians openly oppose homosexuals and seek to sabotage their acceptance within society. They try to elect people who support an anti-gay agenda, so that life can be made miserable for them where possible.
You are conflating dissimilar things. We aren't talking about A Gay Guy Walks Up To The Counter And Orders A Deep Dish With Extra Cheese And Bacon, we are talking about supporting wedding ceremonies. It's not the identity, but rather the activity, that is being refused.
But using the coercive power of the state to force people to violate their religion (or punish them for not doing so) is an interesting "libertarian" position for you to take. What other portions of the Bill of Rights do you think the State should restrict if others find a potential exercise of them to be "mean"?
Do you mean what is the religious basis for objecting to homosexuality? Or to taking part in / supporting their weddings?
If I sell pizza then why would it matter if were ordered by/delivered to "sinners"? What is the biblical/religious basis for this objection? I have yet to see where Jesus said not to sell/serve food to homosexuals or any other "sinners".
EDIT: It makes little sense to say that only during a wedding ceremony it is a sin to sell/serve pizza to homosexuals. The obvious next step is to deny services to any (carefully selected?) "sinner" at any time. Are these folks saying that before and after the wedding that they would knowingly serve these homosexual customers?
And it's not a violation of someone's rights to force them to participate in an activity which runs counter to the tenets of their faith? One way street much? :roll:
You are conflating dissimilar things. We aren't talking about A Gay Guy Walks Up To The Counter And Orders A Deep Dish With Extra Cheese And Bacon, we are talking about supporting wedding ceremonies. It's not the identity, but rather the activity, that is being refused.
But using the coercive power of the state to force people to violate their religion (or punish them for not doing so) is an interesting "libertarian" position for you to take. What other portions of the Bill of Rights do you think the State should restrict if others find a potential exercise of them to be "mean"?
Do you mean what is the religious basis for objecting to homosexuality? Or to taking part in / supporting their weddings?
Of course I did, don't be silly.I don't think that you read what I said.
That is a complete distortion of Jesus based on his teachings. Christians who live in faithfulness would not run up against the world at all.
Jesus said:(John 15:18-22) If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, 'A slave is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they kept My word, they will keep yours also. But all these things they will do to you for My name's sake, because they do not know the One who sent Me.
(John 7:7) The world cannot hate you [Jesus' brothers, who did not believe in Him], but it hates me because I testify that its works are evil.
(John 16:33) I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.
(Mark 13:13 / Matthew 10:22) You will be hated by all because of My name, but the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.
There are many, I would say the vast majority, of Christians who live fully his teachings and have no conflict.
Most Christians are good people who live his teachings...
they are almost never the ones who proclaim themselves "Christian".
Nope. Christianity will survive when the pro-gay bullies have been judged immoral and cast into the Lake of Fire.
What I love today is the $266K raised so far for the Memories Pizza place.
That's an interesting claim. Jesus said pretty much the exact opposite:
In the rest of the NT, Jesus' teachings that faithful Christians can expect the World to turn on them is expounded on:
John 3:19-20This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.
James 4:4 You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
1 John 3:1, 13 See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know Him.... Do not be surprised, my brothers and sisters, if the world hates you.
Christians are, in fact, taught to be wary of, if not to outright reject, the Spirit of the World:
1 Cor 2:12 What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us.
Romans 12:2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.
James 1:27Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
1 Jon 2:15-16 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them. 16 For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world.
1 John 4:5-6 They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.
:shrug: Jesus and the rest of the New Testament Authors would disagree.
Actually, as Christianity will be the first to tell you, all Christians are bad people. But, then, all people (with one exception) are bad people.
If they do not proclaim themselves to be Christians, then they are not Christians.
Romans 10:9-10 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.
Of course I did, don't be silly.
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