R. Shackleferd
Banned
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2010
- Messages
- 316
- Reaction score
- 117
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Libertarian
I have a tendency to think not. If anything I think it's very American to revolt against the State so long as the revolt aims to create an independent state that is modeled after our articles of confederation and our bill of rights.
What about you?
From what I see from over here.. it is only un-American to revolt/complain against the US government when the Republican's are in the White House. Demonstrators during Bush were "un-American", "terrorist lovers" and god know what, but now they are hero's and "real American's".
Articles of Confederation? You're more than 220 years late on that one. And the Articles of Confederation had nothing remotely similar to our Bill of Rights attached.
Thats why I say modeled after both. I prefer a real bottom-top confederacy over this top-bottom "federation" we have today. A voluntary confederate style union with a bill of rights. The articles of confederation and the bill of rights had the security of liberty in common. The articles of confederation did not stipulate what those liberties were, however.
The country was founded by revolutionaries who revolted against their "rightful" king, and did so with little or no legal foundation.
It would be a smidge hypocritical to denigrate modern day revolutionaries given that we were founded on revolution.
Having said that, a lot of it would depend on motivations and goals. Stormfront revolt intending to establish an Aryan State? Uh, no. Secessionists who want their State to be its own nation? Perhaps... certainly the US government has supported some former Russian-Federation states seeking independence, so it would be hypocritical to deny it to a US State.
I guess when most people think 'revolution' they think 'fisti-cuff fighting' - when that's not the case.
Revolution more often happens whenever there's a movement which changes what a people expect, require, and demand from their government if it forces the government to change how it's been functioning and what it has valued then it's successful.
We're amid a revolution, now - believe it or not.
How about this: Revolting against the Federal Government to put in it's place a new Federal Government and a Constitution that does more to limit congress and the executive branch, makes more rules for congressional proceedings, and says that the collection of revenue can't be done through extortion, and other things that would make for a "more perfect" union?
You have a good point here. Are we talking revolution by lawful and peaceful means, or armed insurrection? One is very much American. The other....by definition if you're advocating violent overthrow of the nation, I'd say you're probably against it.
I think at certain points either are very American. Of course we all want to get the most optimal adherence to the social contract in the most peaceful manner possible as I don't think anyone in their right mind wants violence. We aren't at the point yet or hopefully in the near future of needing a bloody revolt and I think we all agree that hopefully it would never be needed........but.......anytime Americans stand up for our country and not necessarily it's standing governance in order to preserve our ideals I would say that is as American as apple pie, patriotic songs, and noble citizen soldiers who would willingly lay it all on the line for those concepts.You have a good point here. Are we talking revolution by lawful and peaceful means, or armed insurrection? One is very much American. The other....by definition if you're advocating violent overthrow of the nation, I'd say you're probably against it.
I think at certain points either are very American. Of course we all want to get the most optimal adherence to the social contract in the most peaceful manner possible as I don't think anyone in their right mind wants violence. We aren't at the point yet or hopefully in the near future of needing a bloody revolt and I think we all agree that hopefully it would never be needed........but.......anytime Americans stand up for our country and not necessarily it's standing governance in order to preserve our ideals I would say that is as American as apple pie, patriotic songs, and noble citizen soldiers who would willingly lay it all on the line for those concepts.
The only time I could see bloody revolt being necessary would be a total legislating class takeover, something like suspending or ending the election process and the resulting civil abuses that would entitle them to. It would have to be a situation where the government concentrated all power into it's own hands and left no other viable options.I agree with you on standing up to preserve our ideals by nonviolent means, although I'm willing to bet we don't agree on exactly what those ideals are. Which is also very American.
But something you said intrigues me. Under what circumstances would you consider a bloody revolt to be necessary, or "American"?
From what I see from over here.. it is only un-American to revolt/complain against the US government when the Republican's are in the White House. Demonstrators during Bush were "un-American", "terrorist lovers" and god know what, but now they are hero's and "real American's".
Haha, yeah. Protesters during Bush years were called anti-American by the Republicans and praised by Democrats. Now protesters are being touted as wonderful people by the Republicans and called extremists and possible terrorists by Democrats.
You wouldn't achieve your ultimate goal of reigning in the government. You'd either end up with founding documents that everyone basically ignores, or with founding documents that do not come anywhere near what you're trying to achieve.
How do you figure? Such an activist group would've most likely had a draft constitution written already to unite with and a temporary dissolution of the federal government would allow for delegates of each state that wants admission to the union a platform to argue the constitution.
How do you figure? Such an activist group would've most likely had a draft constitution written already to unite with and a temporary dissolution of the federal government would allow for delegates of each state that wants admission to the union a platform to argue the constitution.
I have a tendency to think not. If anything I think it's very American to revolt against the State so long as the revolt aims to create an independent state that is modeled after our articles of confederation and our bill of rights.
What about you?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?