Is it time to ban the open carry of assault rifles?

[ecofarm]

a friend of mine is the son of Russian Immigrants and served in the Russian Naval Infantry as an armorer. HIs grandfather fought in the Stalingrad battles and this fellow wrote a fictionalized account (based on what his grandfather told him) with rather accurate details of the siege of Stalingrad in terms of the tactics and the grim living conditions of that era. The soviet machine guns were mainly Maxims and they were heavy and not exactly rapidly portable. and the soviet "burp guns" were not particularly useful against defended positions due to using a pistol cartridge

We went from squad 60s (762 belt) to 249s (223 belt or mag) but I hear there's a new big caliber crew served (240 iirc).

 

[TurtleDude]

I have no doubt that a pump action shotgun with 5-7 shells will take out more than one intruder.

And honestly, after the first shot, most intruders and their buddies are hauling ass.

how much expertise do you have with a shotgun? have you ever read the writings of well known police expert and self defense expert Massad Ayoob? he recommends semi auto shotguns to citizens. He noted, that when his adrenalin is sky high, and he might be wounded or otherwise in a diminished physical state, he trusts the engineers at remington (this was when the 1100 was the most popular semi auto shotgun) to put that next shell into the chamber over his sweaty, perhaps bloody hands pumping an 870.

And this guy is an expert shot and competed well on the pro shooting circuit. I grew up shooting Skeet with an Ithaca 37 pump gun. My home defense shotgun is a FnH semiautomatic though I do keep an 870 in the basement as well

 

[pinqy]

People say it is my right to open carry my assault rifle, I do not think it is. Like yelling fire in a crowded theater, rights outlined in the Constitution are not limitless. The problem with open carry of assault rifles is that someone planning a mass shooting like happened today i Boulder, Co, can legally carry such a weapon into a shopping center and no one can no and just open fire. Gun proponents say it is the cost of freedom and continue to say it until someone in their own family is killed. And now the milita's are using such weapons to intimidate our government officials. And it is now,as can be seen in Georgia, easier to buy a gun than to vote. If a person really believes it is necessary to carry for protection, then do it both concealed and a hand gun. I know that i am tired of constantly seeing mass killings on the tube and not all of them are shown. there were over 400 last year alson and we had close to 40,000 guns deaths last year. Interesting that we have had over 1.9 million gun deaths in this country in the past 50 years, but just over 1,200 proven cases of voter fraud,

I'm not actually aware of any mass shootings made with an assault rifle (which is defined as an select-fire rifle capable of switching between semi-automatic and full automatic or burst) and chambered in an intermediate cartridge. Since assault rifles are legally classified as machine guns, it is unlawful for any civilian to own one made after 1986, and any made before them must be registered with the ATF. There's even a post explaining all this as a sticky in the gun control forum.

So if you don't actually know what the weapon is, then on what basis can you form any reasonable opinion?

 

[Crovax]

People say it is my right to open carry my assault rifle, I do not think it is. Like yelling fire in a crowded theater, rights outlined in the Constitution are not limitless. The problem with open carry of assault rifles is that someone planning a mass shooting like happened today i Boulder, Co, can legally carry such a weapon into a shopping center and no one can no and just open fire. Gun proponents say it is the cost of freedom and continue to say it until someone in their own family is killed. And now the milita's are using such weapons to intimidate our government officials. And it is now,as can be seen in Georgia, easier to buy a gun than to vote. If a person really believes it is necessary to carry for protection, then do it both concealed and a hand gun. I know that i am tired of constantly seeing mass killings on the tube and not all of them are shown. there were over 400 last year alson and we had close to 40,000 guns deaths last year. Interesting that we have had over 1.9 million gun deaths in this country in the past 50 years, but just over 1,200 proven cases of voter fraud,

Yelling fire in a crowded theater is actually allowed by the constitution.

 

[VySky]

No need to ban anything

 

[Court Jester]

Virginia Tech Shooter.
Killed 32 people with two handguns. One 9mm and one .22 cal/
NO AR-15 was used

 

[Mycroft]

People say it is my right to open carry my assault rifle, I do not think it is.

Then your thinking is not based on reality.

Go read the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution.

It's been my right to open carry an assault rifle...or any other rifle, for that matter...for hundreds of years.

 

[The AntiDonald]

I haven’t seen anyone carry and assault rifle since I retired from the Navy.

I guess you conveniently missed the attempted take over of the Michigan state house.

IMO All assault rifles and their accessories, ammunition should be banned. This crap just keeps happening over and over again while republicans turn their heads the other way. I just don't get it.

 

[pinqy]

I guess you conveniently missed the attempted take over of the Michigan state house.

IMO All assault rifles and their accessories, ammunition should be banned. This crap just keeps happening over and over again while republicans turn their heads the other way. I just don't get it.

Assault rifles are classified as machine guns under U.S. law and any manufactured after 1986 are already banned for civilians. Those made before 1986 are heavily regulated. I highly doubt that anyone involved in the Michigan protest was carrying an assault rifle.
Again, if you don’t even know what an assault rifle is, how can you be for banning them?

 

[The AntiDonald]

Assault rifles are classified as machine guns under U.S. law and any manufactured after 1986 are already banned for civilians. Those made before 1986 are heavily regulated. I highly doubt that anyone involved in the Michigan protest was carrying an assault rifle.
Again, if you don’t even know what an assault rifle is, how can you be for banning them?

Let's not play games here. I here this crap all the time. Let me call them AR-15 style rifles. You call them what you want. They are killing machines that have no business in average joe citizens hands. Your spin may work for someone who is a gun expert, but it won't work on me.

What ever gun that moron in Boulder was carrying, ban that model and all the ones like it, period. Expand universal background checks and close all possible loopholes for private gun sales. Then we can make a slight dent on the gun violence here in the U.S.

 

[pinqy]

Let's not play games here. I here this crap all the time. Let me call them AR-15 style rifles. You call them what you want. They are killing machines that have no business in average joe citizens hands.

What are you claiming makes a semi-automatic rifle based on the AR-15 pattern more of a “killing machine” than other rifles? And why shouldn’t average citizens have them?
For example: I own a Ruger 10/22 rifle.
Not an AR-15 style, clearly. But I could easily change the stock and fore-end to this:

would that make my rifle more deadly?

 

[NolanVoyd]

I'm retired military, so I think I know what assault rifle really is defined by the military.

Right. And OBVIOUSLY, he was using the term the way it is often used (inaccurately) to refer to semi autos like the AR.

 

[independentusa]

yeah if the judge hadn't have ruled that way, the shooting never would have happened because when guns were banned in DC and Chicago, no one was ever shot

What they have found is that it does little good to ban guns in Chicago, if people can just drive down to Indiana and buy all the guns they want and just go back to Chicago with them. That is what is happening and that is why we need Federal laws that cover all of the states.

 

[independentusa]

No, he was talking about real assault rifles-as was I. I have my doubts about your claims concerning gun expertise.

The AAR15 is the civilian version of an assault rifle, not the military version which is either the M16 or the M4. In the past just seven mass shooting using a version of the AR15, these killers were able to kill 160 people or about 23 deaths per mass hooting with the different versions of the AR15.

 

[Linuxcooldude]

Let's not play games here. I here this crap all the time. Let me call them AR-15 style rifles. You call them what you want. They are killing machines that have no business in average joe citizens hands. Your spin may work for someone who is a gun expert, but it won't work on me.

What ever gun that moron in Boulder was carrying, ban that model and all the ones like it, period. Expand universal background checks and close all possible loopholes for private gun sales. Then we can make a slight dent on the gun violence here in the U.S.

All guns are deadly. If you don't even know what gun the Boulder shooter was using, why are you banning it?

 

[independentusa]

What are you claiming makes a semi-automatic rifle based on the AR-15 pattern more of a “killing machine” than other rifles? And why shouldn’t average citizens have them?
For example: I own a Ruger 10/22 rifle. View attachment 67324400
Not an AR-15 style, clearly. But I could easily change the stock and fore-end to this: View attachment 67324402

would that make my rifle more deadly?

What is the muzzle velocity of the weapon you are showing as compared to the different versions of civilian AR15's. Just asking as that has a lot to do with the killing power and the injuries caused by the different guns. If you have a chance, shoot both into a jell block to see the difference.

 

[Gaius46]

I haven’t seen anyone carry and assault rifle since I retired from the Navy.

Aside from hearing about the occasional idiots who get off on scaring soccer moms at Target by carrying their rifles through the store I’ve never it either.

 

[Gaius46]

Police mostly carry handguns, and dash mounted short barreled 12 gages, but yes, they do sometimes have AR style rifles, mostly in specialized units. Why, because they can be effective at killing lots of people in a short time (i.e. not a legit civilian purpose).

None sense. That also makes them good self defense weapons.

 

[pinqy]

What is the muzzle velocity of the weapon you are showing as compared to the different versions of civilian AR15's. Just asking as that has a lot to do with the killing power and the injuries caused by the different guns. If you have a chance, shoot both into a jell block to see the difference.

For an AR of the same caliber? Muzzle velocity would be the same. The platform or gun has virtually no effect on muzzle velocity aside from barrel length. A 26” bolt action rifle will have higher muzzle velocity for any rifle caliber than an AR platform which usually has a 16.5” barrel.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

I see no reason for the general public to have ANY kind of automatic weapon, and magazines be limited to 5 or 7 rounds or shells.

I would support limiting gun ownership to bolt action rifles, lever action long guns, muzzle loaders, shotguns, both break action and pump, and revolver pistols only. Single shot weapons are obviously legal. This is a legitimate compromise between hunters, sportsmen, home protection enthusiasts, and gun control advocates. I further support background checks, waiting periods, closing gun show loopholes, psych checks, and keep ban on felons.

Implementing your nonsensical solution would be virtually impossible. Currently, there are more firearms in the hands of American civilians than than the country’s total population, and the vast majority of those firearms do not fall into your “approved” list.

Confiscating “unapproved” firearms from law abiding citizens would actually benefit bad guys, many of whom possess illegally purchased firearms and will not relinquish them.

I further support ... psych checks ...

Absurd on it’s face.

 

[independentusa]

For an AR of the same caliber? Muzzle velocity would be the same. The platform or gun has virtually no effect on muzzle velocity aside from barrel length. A 26” bolt action rifle will have higher muzzle velocity for any rifle caliber than an AR platform which usually has a 16.5” barrel.

The Ar15's and the M16's have higher muzzle velocities which cause a lot more damage than many of the civilian semiauto's like the one you are showing in the picture. Like I said, shoot both in jell and see which causes the most damage.

 

[independentusa]

Implementing your nonsensical solution would be virtually impossible. Currently, there are more firearms in the hands of American civilians than than the country’s total population, and the vast majority of those firearms do not fall into your “approved” list.

Confiscating “unapproved” firearms from law abiding citizens would actually benefit bad guys, many of whom possess illegally purchased firearms and will not relinquish them.

Absurd on it’s face.

You are right is saying there are more guns than people, and yet over 30% of all homes have none. You are also right that the government will never confiscate weapons already in the hands of civilians, so that is why open carry of such weapons should be banned. If yo uwant them for hunting or self defense there is no reason to lug them with you in a store when a hand gun will do as well for self defense. By allowing open carry you are saying, go ahead and kill as many as you want and we will only stop you once you have murdered a bunch of people because it is your right to do so.

 

[TurtleDude]

What they have found is that it does little good to ban guns in Chicago, if people can just drive down to Indiana and buy all the guns they want and just go back to Chicago with them. That is what is happening and that is why we need Federal laws that cover all of the states.

that's already a violation of law. and federal laws have to be based on the expanded nonsense (FDR) of the commerce clause. Most of the crap liberals want to pass cannot meet that test. plus the second amendment clearly was a ban on federal restrictions. State restrictions-though less valid since the McDonald Incorporation, at least have some argument of validity

 

[TurtleDude]

The Ar15's and the M16's have higher muzzle velocities which cause a lot more damage than many of the civilian semiauto's like the one you are showing in the picture. Like I said, shoot both in jell and see which causes the most damage.

that's one of the most stupid things I have ever seen. the 223/5.56 mm bullet is nothing more than a slightly modified civilian VARMINT round. Ever heard of the following

222?
220 Swift
22-250

 

[independentusa]

that's already a violation of law. and federal laws have to be based on the expanded nonsense (FDR) of the commerce clause. Most of the crap liberals want to pass cannot meet that test. plus the second amendment clearly was a ban on federal restrictions. State restrictions-though less valid since the McDonald Incorporation, at least have some argument of validity

I bet you are one of those who think that the deaths in these mass shootings is the price others have to pay of unlimited guns. I think that people that think that are as responsible for the mass shootings as those who pull the trigger, as they allow them easy access to the kinds of weapons that allow these shooters to not only kill many at one time, but often to outgun the police who often arrive at the scene with only hand guns. And even Scalia once said that reasonable gun laws are allowed under the 2nd Amendment, even by the Feds.