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Is it ok for Dr's to lie to patients to prevent an abortion?

Is it ok for Dr's to lie to patients to prevent an abortion?

  • Yes...

    Votes: 4 8.2%
  • No...

    Votes: 45 91.8%

  • Total voters
    49
This is from the AP...sheesh..(is the AP not a reliable source? I posted this in #50)


"The Arizona Senate has approved a bill that would shield doctors and others from so-called “wrongful birth” lawsuits.

Those are lawsuits that can arise if physicians don’t inform pregnant women of prenatal problems that could lead to the decision to have an abortion.

Where does it say they can LIE????? If you don't understand these wrongful birth lawsuits, you need to Google. If you understand them and still think that article says doctors can lie, I don't know what to tell you. I'm done with you, Jason. Keep drinkin' the Kool Aid.
 
Where does it say they can LIE????? If you don't understand these wrongful birth lawsuits, you need to Google. If you understand them and still think that article says doctors can lie, I don't know what to tell you. I'm done with you, Jason. Keep drinkin' the Kool Aid.

It's clear to everyone but you that withholding info is a lie..sorry you don't see it...cheers!!!
 
It's wrong for them to lie, but it's not wrong for them to do everything within their legal right to protect a human right. As a future doctor of pharmacy I will not dispense abortifacient drugs for the purpose of killing another human. It's not ok to lie and compromise patient health.

As JayDubya pointed out earlier in this thread, a doctor who is treating a pregnant woman has two patients—the mother and her child.
 
It's wrong for them to lie, but it's not wrong for them to do everything within their legal right to protect a human right. As a future doctor of pharmacy I will not dispense abortifacient drugs for the purpose of killing another human. It's not ok to lie and compromise patient health.

IMO you have no business being a doctor of pharmacy then :shrug: not because I agree or disagree with your morals its because your morals have no right being involved in my prescriptions or life decisions. Where do we draw the line, maybe some other doctor of pharmacy thinks that no meds should be given to women, it should be left up to gods will?

is that an asinine example? YES but my point is why would your morals be more important than his? theres no room for your personal morals in the medical field IMO.
 
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IQ isn't the only measure of intellegence nor the measure of a person. However:


." The average IQ of children with Down syndrome is around 50, compared to normal children with an IQ of 100. A small number have a severe to high degree of intellectual disability."
Most (adult) individuals with Down syndrome have intellectual disability in the mild (IQ 50–70) to moderate (IQ 35–50) range."

Down syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You welcomed to find better stats if you think those are inaccurate.

Did you look to anything else about the quality of life other than IQ scores? Sorry, Joko, but organizations (as well as people with Down Syndrome) supporting families and individuals with Downs Syndrome find the age-old "child-like" stereotype highly insulting.
 
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Oh, such as what abortifacient drugs? Rather than guess, seems best to just ask.

RU-486 and Methotrexate are examples.

IMO you have no business being a doctor of pharmacy then :shrug: not because I agree or disagree with your morals its because your morals have no right being involved in my prescriptions or life decisions. Where do we draw the line, maybe some other doctor of pharmacy thinks that no meds should be given to women, it should be left up to gods will?

is that an asinine example? YES but my point is why would your morals be more important than his? theres no room for your personal morals in the medical field IMO.

Actually they do. The reason a doctor of pharmacy exists it to have an expert on drug therapy mediating between prescriber therapies and what is safe/healthy for the patient. If a patient is prescribed something that harms them, the pharmacist's license and liability for malpractice is on the line. The main purpose of our job is to make sure a drug is safe for the patient and to ensure that those who are not drug experts (prescribes) don't harm patients with their therapy. If I know a drug is for the purpose of causing an abortion, I can't allow for a patient (child) to be killed under my license as a pharmacist. I am not comfortable with that and I do have the right in my state to outright deny the prescription and send her somewhere else.

There is room for my personal morals. I believe abortion is unjust killing. I can't under good conciseness evaluate and use my license to dispense something that's going to fatally harm another human. Some physicians and prescribers refuse to prescribe narcotics because they are morally opposed to giving patients addictive medicines to treat things like anxiety or pain that they complain of. They exercise their moral judgement and do what they can to care for a patient the way they best see fit.
 
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As JayDubya pointed out earlier in this thread, a doctor who is treating a pregnant woman has two patients—the mother and her child.

I'm not so sure that's the truth...do you know that for a fact?

Yes, definitely. I read it with my own eyes in this thread. Post #22. It is a fact that JayDubya made the point that I claim that he made.

Incidentally, for our kid, we specifically sought out an OB/GYN who understood she had two patients.
 
RU-486 and Methotrexate are examples.



Actually they do. The reason a doctor of pharmacy exists it to have an expert on drug therapy mediating between prescriber therapies and what is safe/healthy for the patient. If a patient is prescribed something that harms them, the pharmacist's license and liability for malpractice is on the line. The main purpose of our job is to make sure a drug is safe for the patient and to ensure that those who are nit drug experts (prescribes) don't harm patients with their therapy. If I know a drug is for the purpose of causing an abortion, I can't allow for a patient (child) to be killed under my license as a pharmacist. I am not comfortable with that and I do have the right in my state to outright deny the prescription and send her somewhere else.

There is room for my personal morals. I believe abortion is unjust killing. I can't under good conciseness evaluate and use my license to dispense something that's going to fatally harm another human.

Do your own practice/pharmacy?
 
Did you look to anything else about the quality of life other than IQ scores?

My aunt was in her 50's when she died -- Down's Syndrome. Actually, whatever her IQ (I'm sure it was never measured), she was completely self-sufficient within her home. Not much she couldn't do there except cook -- I don't think my grandparents trusted her to do that. But she helped with housework and took very good care of herself. She picked out her clothes, liked to shop for them herself, enjoyed music, television (had her favorites). I think there are different levels of mental deficiency in Down's victims. I support Special Olympics, and every year they have a banquet (silent auction...dancing, etc.). Those kids are remarkable! Can't help but just sit and watch them party! They dance 'til the band leaves -- and some of 'em are pretty darned good -- including some pretty intricate floor moves!
 
There is room for my personal morals. I believe abortion is unjust killing. I can't under good conciseness evaluate and use my license to dispense something that's going to fatally harm another human.

Within a short time, I believe your conscience approach to dispensing pharmaceuticals will be illegal in all 50 states.
 
Honestly, I keep reading these threads and I think these guys want all Down's kids to be dead. For their own good. And think themselves humanitarian for it...

SMH.
 
Do your own practice/pharmacy?

Not yet. I am starting pharmacy school in the fall and working towards my PharmD. I personally want to specialize in cancer therapy and work as a clinical pharmacist specializing in hematology/oncology therapies. This issue probably wont' affect me unless I chose community pharmacy as a career.


Within a short time, I believe your conscience approach to dispensing pharmaceuticals will be illegal in all 50 states.

That isn't going to happen any time soon. There are some backwards states that force pharmacists to be nothing more than flesh bags that must dispense a fetal drug under their license. Pharmacy is regulated by state boards of pharmacy, and fortunately where I live I can practice pharmacy and make the best decisions for my patients without the government forcing me to use my license against my will to dispense abortifacients.
 
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RU-486 and Methotrexate are examples.



Actually they do. The reason a doctor of pharmacy exists it to have an expert on drug therapy mediating between prescriber therapies and what is safe/healthy for the patient. If a patient is prescribed something that harms them, the pharmacist's license and liability for malpractice is on the line. The main purpose of our job is to make sure a drug is safe for the patient and to ensure that those who are not drug experts (prescribes) don't harm patients with their therapy. If I know a drug is for the purpose of causing an abortion, I can't allow for a patient (child) to be killed under my license as a pharmacist. I am not comfortable with that and I do have the right in my state to outright deny the prescription and send her somewhere else.

There is room for my personal morals. I believe abortion is unjust killing. I can't under good conciseness evaluate and use my license to dispense something that's going to fatally harm another human.


100% wrong those are not your personal morals you just described in the begingin, those are you scientific medical morals

so actually they dont and you didnt answer the question where do yo udraw the line. If I wake up one day and belife i was touched by god and decided everytime I have a feeling im just going to deny people meds and let it be gods will, is that ok?

its is definitely my opinion you have no business in the medical field

its scary to think there are people out there that put their personal morals ahead of their scientific and medical knowledge and morals that work in the medical field. That violates my rights and freedoms.
 
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Not yet. I am starting pharmacy school in the fall and working towards my PharmD. I personally want to specialize in cancer therapy and work as a clinical pharmacist specializing in hematology/oncology therapies. This issue probably wont' affect me unless I chose community pharmacy as a career.


That isn't going to happen any time soon. There are some backwards states that force pharmacists to be nothing more than flesh bags that must dispense a fetal drug under their license. Pharmacy is regulated by state boards of pharmacy, and fortunately where I live I can practice pharmacy and make the best decisions for my patients without the government forcing me to use my license against my will to dispense abortifacients.

Well, make sure you tell your boss that you will be basing your decisions on your morals and not science...
 
Pharmacists shouldn't honor scripts called in by abortionists. Nurses shouldn't obey orders from them either.

They aren't doctors. Once you start killing for money, you piss on the Hippocratic Oath.
 
Arizona once again leading the way in absolutely ridiculous legislation. Are they going for the record of how many laws they can get to SCOTUS in a five year period?
 
100% wrong those are not your personal moral those are you scientific medical morals

so actually they dont and you didnt answer the question where do yo udraw the line. If I wake up one day and belife i was touched by god and decided everytime I have a feeling im just going to deny people meds and let it be gods will, is that ok?

its is definitely my opinion you have no business in the medical field

its scary to think there are people out there that put their personal morals ahead of their scientific and medical knowledge and morals that work in the medical field. That violates my rights and freedoms.

How am I wrong?

And where do I draw the line? With abortifacients. I'm not going to deny someone their statins, blood pressure meds, diabetes meds, or things necessary for life. I will not, however, dispense medication that has the purpose of ensuring death.

I find your post to be insulting. I'm damn good at what I do and I think I have every business being in the pharmaceutical field. My views on abortion and protecting innocent life doesn't disqualify me from doing that nor does it affect me as a scientifically driven medical professional. I would not allow a lethal dose of codeine (which I have seen prescribed before) to go out to one of my patients and hear that they died of an overdose. In the same way I will not let a medication for the purpose of aborting another human go out of my pharmacy under my license for the sole purpose of elective abortion (tubal pregnancies or the life of the mother are exceptions). I care about my unborn patient, and I will not use my license and my degree to ensure their death when it isn't medically necessary.

A woman can't just walk up to any licensed physician and demand that they provide an abortion or demand that they point them in the direction to obtain one. In much the same way I will not honor prescriptions for abortifacients for the purpose of elective abortion.
 
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It is never acceptable for doctors to lie to patients. It is doctors' responsibility to provide patients with the best care possible, which includes giving the most detailed and accurate information known of that is relevant to each case so as to ensure the ultimate decisions are made by those who are most effected - patients and their families.
 
How am I wrong?

And where do I draw the line? With abortifacients. I'm not going to deny someone their statins, blood pressure meds, diabetes meds, or things necessary for life. I will not, however, dispense medication that has the purpose of ensuring death.

I find your post to be insulting. I'm damn good at what I do and I think I have every business being in the pharmaceutical field. My views on abortion and protecting innocent life doesn't disqualify me from doing that nor does it affect me as a scientifically driven medical professional. I would not allow a lethal dose of codeine (which I have seen prescribed before) to go out to one of my patients and hear that they died of an overdose. In the same way I will not let a medication for the purpose of aborting another human go out of my pharmacy under my license for the sole purpose of elective abortion (tubal pregnancies or the life of the mother are exceptions). I care about my unborn patient, and I will not use my license and my degree to ensure their death when it isn't medically necessary.

A woman can't just walk up to any licensed physician and demand that they provide an abortion or demand that they point them in the direction to obtain one. In much the same way I will not honor prescriptions for abortifacients for the purpose of elective abortion.

I respect your beliefs, but how would you know if the prescription was solely for elective abortions? Anyway, I wish you sincere luck in your career field, I myself will probably take the PASS test this summer to become a Pharmacy Technician, pretty good part time job. :)
 
How am I wrong?

And where do I draw the line? With abortifacients. I'm not going to deny someone their statins, blood pressure meds, diabetes meds, or things necessary for life. I will not, however, dispense medication that has the purpose of ensuring death.

I find your post to be insulting. I'm damn good at what I do and I think I have every business being in the pharmaceutical field. My views on abortion and protecting innocent life doesn't disqualify me from doing that nor does it affect me as a scientifically driven medical professional. I would not allow a lethal dose of codeine (which I have seen prescribed before) to go out to one of my patients and hear that they died of an overdose. In the same way I will not let a medication for the purpose of aborting another human go out of my pharmacy under my license for the sole purpose of elective abortion (tubal pregnancies or the life of the mother are exceptions). I care about my unborn patient, and I will not use my license and my degree to ensure their death when it isn't medically necessary.

A woman can't just walk up to any licensed physician and demand that they provide an abortion or demand that they point them in the direction to obtain one. In much the same way I will not honor prescriptions for abortifacients for the purpose of elective abortion.

because what you described in the beggingin were not personal morals they were scientific medical morals

and you choosing not to do something on your personal religious morals is totally different and has no place in the medical field

you can find my post insulting all you want I dont care because I didnt attack your "abilities" so you are projecting but many other people would find it insulting you denied them something based on your made up morals :shrug: dont they matter????? just your morals matter? the hell with every none else?

again I ask you to be honest, where is the line, you told me YOUR line but why is you line more important than others? WHat if I had a moral line where I wouldnt give you meds based on your religion because its different from mine.? If I helped you my god would punish me so I cant in good conscience give you meds sorry. is that ok?


im guessing not but somehow your view is ok to deny me based on your personal or religious morals :shrug:

sorry I can not and will never agree with you because it violates the rights and freedoms of fellow americans
 
I respect your beliefs, but how would you know if the prescription was solely for elective abortions? Anyway, I wish you sincere luck in your career field, I myself will probably take the PASS test this summer to become a Pharmacy Technician, pretty good part time job. :)

I can call the prescriber and ask what the diagnosis is. I've seen a female prescribed Viagra before. The pharmacist wanted to make sure it wasn't an error so they called to see the diagnosis. It was to treat a heart condition and the pharmacist agreed. I've also seen males prescribed anti-fungal vaginal rods before... We called on them and those indeed were mistakes :lol:

I wish you luck! I'm currently a pharmacy technician and have been for over a year now. I took a break in the summer when I was awarded a research fellowship and worked on that. I promise that I am usually not this hostile sounding and even though my post is heated I mean nothing personal by it (I respect Objective-J and all the others here that disagree with me).

Feel free to PM me if you have questions about pharmacy tech work or are considering a career as a licensed pharmacist. I'd be glad to help. Thank you for the well wishes.
 
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