Is it ok for Dr's to lie to patients to prevent an abortion?

JasonI · Mar 17, 2012

Arizona Senate approves lying to women to prevent abortions

By David Edwards
Thursday, March 8, 2012 12:23 EDT

401

Topics: arizona senate ♦ Nancy Barto

The Arizona Senate on Tuesday approved a bill that would allow doctors withhold information about prenatal problems if it could make the decision to have an abortion more likely.

Republican state Sen. Nancy Barto introduced the measure to protect doctors from so-called “wrongful birth” lawsuits.

Such lawsuits are sometimes filed by parents of children with disabilities who believe that doctors withheld information that could have led to the decision to have an abortion.

“When I first heard of this issue, I couldn’t believe that these lawsuits are actually happening,” Barto told KTAR last month. “That some couples, after they give birth to their child that has a disability, would claim that the child should not have been born, and would sue to get damages.”

“The lawsuits that are being brought imply that the physician is somehow at fault if the child is born with a disability,” she added.

Arizona Senate approves lying to women to prevent abortions | The Raw Story

joko104 · Mar 17, 2012

This is being debated at:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/abort...llion-birth-their-down-syndrome-child-18.html

and

http://www.debatepolitics.com/abortion/121260-all-prochoicers-6.html

AClockworkGrape · Mar 17, 2012

I cannot believe that they think this is in anyway okay. An affront to parents on so many levels.

JasonI · Mar 17, 2012

Ok, sorry...thanks

JasonI · Mar 17, 2012

AClockworkGrape said:
I cannot believe that they think this is in anyway okay. An affront to parents on so many levels.

Ridiculous, right?

jamesrage · Mar 17, 2012

JasonI said:
Arizona Senate approves lying to women to prevent abortions

By David Edwards
Thursday, March 8, 2012 12:23 EDT

401

Topics: arizona senate ♦ Nancy Barto

The Arizona Senate on Tuesday approved a bill that would allow doctors withhold information about prenatal problems if it could make the decision to have an abortion more likely.

Republican state Sen. Nancy Barto introduced the measure to protect doctors from so-called “wrongful birth” lawsuits.

Such lawsuits are sometimes filed by parents of children with disabilities who believe that doctors withheld information that could have led to the decision to have an abortion.

“When I first heard of this issue, I couldn’t believe that these lawsuits are actually happening,” Barto told KTAR last month. “That some couples, after they give birth to their child that has a disability, would claim that the child should not have been born, and would sue to get damages.”

“The lawsuits that are being brought imply that the physician is somehow at fault if the child is born with a disability,” she added.

Arizona Senate approves lying to women to prevent abortions | The Raw Story

A doctor's job is to save lives not encourage people to take the lives of others.

JasonI · Mar 17, 2012

jamesrage said:
A doctor's job is to save lives not encourage people to take the lives of others.

No, the Dr's job is to check out a patient, diagnose that patient and present ALL options of treatment...Dr's are not supposed to impose their beliefs on their patients...

MaggieD · Mar 17, 2012

JasonI said:
Arizona Senate approves lying to women to prevent abortions

By David Edwards
Thursday, March 8, 2012 12:23 EDT

401

Topics: arizona senate ♦ Nancy Barto

The Arizona Senate on Tuesday approved a bill that would allow doctors withhold information about prenatal problems if it could make the decision to have an abortion more likely.

Republican state Sen. Nancy Barto introduced the measure to protect doctors from so-called “wrongful birth” lawsuits.

Such lawsuits are sometimes filed by parents of children with disabilities who believe that doctors withheld information that could have led to the decision to have an abortion.

“When I first heard of this issue, I couldn’t believe that these lawsuits are actually happening,” Barto told KTAR last month. “That some couples, after they give birth to their child that has a disability, would claim that the child should not have been born, and would sue to get damages.”

“The lawsuits that are being brought imply that the physician is somehow at fault if the child is born with a disability,” she added.

Arizona Senate approves lying to women to prevent abortions | The Raw Story

I think the headline and spin is misleading. Your link says:

Barto claimed that a doctor could still be sued if there was evidence of wrongdoing. “If a doctor intentionally or knowlingly withholds information then a lawsuit could be appropriate,” she said.

Barto is the Senator who introduced the legislation, so I think we can accept that the quote is accurate. If the legislation allows this, what's the problem?

JasonI · Mar 17, 2012

MaggieD said:
I think the headline and spin is misleading. Your link says:

Barto is the Senator who introduced the legislation, so I think we can accept that the quote is accurate. If the legislation allows this, what's the problem?

I'm sorry...I think i'm missing what you are saying...

Daktoria · Mar 17, 2012

It's the Hippocratic Oath. A mother's opinion on the definition of personhood is not superior to a doctor's.

JasonI · Mar 17, 2012

Daktoria said:
It's the Hippocratic Oath. A mother's opinion on the definition of personhood is not superior to a doctor's.

The child isn't the patient...

MaggieD · Mar 17, 2012

JasonI said:
I'm sorry...I think i'm missing what you are saying...

The headline reads: Arizona Senate Approves Lying to Women to Prevent Abortions.

No, it doesn't. So says a quote within the article:

Barto claimed that a doctor could still be sued if there was evidence of wrongdoing. “If a doctor intentionally or knowlingly withholds information then a lawsuit could be appropriate,” she said.

If a doctor can still be sued if he/she intentionally or knowingly withholds information, then he/she absolutely cannot do what the headline suggests.

Your Star · Mar 17, 2012

This is sickening, how can people who are supposedly for "small government" support this crap?

Redress · Mar 17, 2012

Moderator's Warning:

Moved to appropriate forum.

MaggieD · Mar 17, 2012

Your Star said:
This is sickening, how can people who are supposedly for "small government" support this crap?

The headline is a fantasy. Read the article.

AGENT J · Mar 17, 2012

Just on the actual topic of doctors and telling the truth, all the other stuff aside.

A doctor can NEVER lie and should NEVER be able to lie to a patient about any conditions or truths. If they do they are at risk for repercussions including being sued, licenses removed or suspended and or jailed.

Anybody that thinks different is totally clueless

JasonI · Mar 17, 2012

MaggieD said:
The headline reads: Arizona Senate Approves Lying to Women to Prevent Abortions.

No, it doesn't. So says a quote within the article:

If a doctor can still be sued if he/she intentionally or knowingly withholds information, then he/she absolutely cannot do what the headline suggests.

I read it again and she is saying that if the law passes, Dr's can lie, but if there is wrongdoing, they can still be sued...

AClockworkGrape · Mar 17, 2012

MaggieD said:
The headline is a fantasy. Read the article.

Yeah I read the article and was looking for where it stated that... it'd be ridiculous to support a bill that would support lying, in the medical field, no less.

Edit: I Don't know what to think anymore, so you can purposefully lie, but that wouldn't be wrongdoing according to the bill? Then what would be wrong doing be? I can't imagine lying to a patient to further an agenda against abortion fits in line with the Hippocratic oath.

JayDubya · Mar 17, 2012

No, is not appropriate to lie.

However, a healthcare professional may refuse service. So if it becomes evident that the patient is seeking an abortion the ob / gyn may end the working relationship with that patient.

Should, even. That is, if they value medical ethics...

Thunder · Mar 17, 2012

I am sooooooooo never stepping foot in Arizona.

TheDemSocialist · Mar 17, 2012

Absolutely not! Is it ok for a doctor to lie about anything?
Absolutely not!

JayDubya · Mar 17, 2012

Here is the upfront, ethical way to deal with the specific dilemma at hand:

"I don't do abortions. I don't get involved in abortions. I'm not going to order this test if you're just going to use the result to justify an abortion."

With that disclosure, the patient can now choose to not use that physician at that time, and can go use Google to seek out the killer of their choice.

Incidentally, for our kid, we specifically sought out an OB/GYN who understood she had two patients.

JasonI · Mar 17, 2012

JayDubya said:
Here is the upfront, ethical way to deal with the specific dilemma at hand:

"I don't do abortions. I don't get involved in abortions. I'm not going to order this test if you're just going to use the result to justify an abortion."

With that disclosure, the patient can now choose to not use that physician at that time, and can go use Google to seek out the killer of their choice.

Incidentally, for our kid, we specifically sought out an OB/GYN who understood she had two patients.

And that Dr would be joining the unemployment line shortly thereafter...

OKgrannie · Mar 17, 2012

This is not new. And we can expect it to spread if allowed by the courts. Similar legislation is in the courts in Oklahoma.

The "Let Women Die" bill. SFAG - CafeMom

Sen. Nancy Barto (R-Phoenix) told the Claims Journal that she sponsored the law because she did not want claimants to blame a doctor for a baby born with disabilities. Under the provisions of her bill, a doctor could not be sued for medical malpractice if the doctor withholds information from a mother about a child's potential health issues that could influence her decision to have an abortion. In addition, a lawsuit could not be filed on the child's behalf regarding a disability.

The suits and laws have been deemed "wrongful birth" and "wrongful life."

Barto's legislation will allow for medical malpractice suits in the event for "intentional or grossly negligent" acts and for any acts that violate criminal law. Barto proposed the legislation after it was proposed by the conservative Center for Arizona Policy.......

"I cannot think of a time that it is right to withhold information from a patient that would cause them pain or death," Heinz told HuffPost. "That is not consistent with the Hippocratic Oath.".....

Currently Pennsylvania, North Dakota, South Dakota, Utah, Idaho, Indiana, Missouri, Minnesota and North Carolina have wrongful birth laws. A 1994 challenge to the Pennsylvania law ended with the law being upheld by a federal appeals court; the U.S. Supreme Court declinedto hear the case. Kansas lawmakers are currently debating a measure that would allow doctors to withhold information from a mother in order to prevent an abortion and not face a malpractice suit.

JayDubya · Mar 17, 2012

JasonI said:
And that Dr would be joining the unemployment line shortly thereafter...

Completely false.

Is it ok for Dr's to lie to patients to prevent an abortion?