"Is It Finally Time to Defund War?"

[Antiwar]

Theoretically and philosophically.....I think that yes the US should stop sending weapons to Ukraine, if I am to stop and think about it and be perfectly honest.

The US should stop sending weapons to Israel too, and many other places. There are arguments to be made about "defense" and "freedom
" and blah blah blah, but all that rings mighty hollow. Afghanistan can attest to that. So can Iraq. And Palestine.

In a perfect world, the US wouldn't be sending any weapons to Ukraine. Russia did not attack the USA, military is supposed to be for DEFENSE of the nation. Not for meddling around the world. Technically. The US has no alliance with Ukraine, they are not a NATO country.

The US wouldn't be "causing Ukraine to lose the war"...Russia would be doing that.

All the talk about "stopping mad men" blah blah blah, lets just contain the mad men in our own nation for now. Once all that is taken care of, then we can start worrying about everyone else. Or not.

OTOH, I know that the US isnt going to stop sending weapons to everyone and meddling in their affairs. This post is my pipe dream, not anything that I expect to actually happen.

Questerr wants a socialist takeover of the means of US military arms production.

He's also fervently against the peace process.

The first is a "LAFFRIOT." The second is just dumb. Even the ****ing Pentagon pretends to be for the peace process.

 

[Ambig]

Theoretically and philosophically.....I think that yes the US should stop sending weapons to Ukraine, if I am to stop and think about it and be perfectly honest.

The US should stop sending weapons to Israel too, and many other places. There are arguments to be made about "defense" and "freedom
" and blah blah blah, but all that rings mighty hollow. Afghanistan can attest to that. So can Iraq. And Palestine.

In a perfect world, the US wouldn't be sending any weapons to Ukraine. Russia did not attack the USA, military is supposed to be for DEFENSE of the nation. Not for meddling around the world. Technically. The US has no alliance with Ukraine, they are not a NATO country.

The US wouldn't be "causing Ukraine to lose the war"...Russia would be doing that.

All the talk about "stopping mad men" blah blah blah, lets just contain the mad men in our own nation for now. Once all that is taken care of, then we can start worrying about everyone else. Or not.

Have you read much about the lead-up to WWII?

I think it taught the US and the world a pretty big lesson about tamping out fires before they rage out of control.

Yeah, the West could concede Ukraine, but at the very least it'd be a bad look. At the worst, it'd be an invitation to Putin to continue his empire-building. At the worst worst, it'd give Putin nuclear confidence.

And if you were Ukrainian, how would you feel about it?

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Have you read much about the lead-up to WWII?

Yes. The "But Hitler" thing is so overused I'm going to vomit soon.

I think it taught the US and the world a pretty big lesson about tamping out fires before they rage out of control.

Yet nobody has tamped the USA down yet, which is the biggest warmongering nation on earth. Hmmm.

Yeah, the West could concede Ukraine, but at the very least it'd be a bad look.

Ukraine really isnt the USAs to "concede" or not.

At the worst worst, it'd give Putin nuclear confidence.

"Nuclear confidence"? LOL. OK.

And if you were Ukrainian, how would you feel about it?

I'd probably feel like one of those dead Iraqis feels. Oooooops! I guess they aren't feeling any pain at all are they? "Liberated"!! I'd feel as "liberated" as a dead Iraqi?

 

[Questerr]

Questerr wants a socialist takeover of the means of US military arms production.

He's also fervently against the peace process.

The first is a "LAFFRIOT." The second is just dumb. Even the ****ing Pentagon pretends to be for the peace process.

I am fully behind the peace process. It can start when the Russian militarists withdraw their forces from Ukraine. Or do you think militarism should be rewarded by granting their territorial demands?

I love that you are still too cowardly to directly quote me. Instead you surrender just like you would to militarists, and just like then no justice system will come to save you.

 

[independentusa]

Do quote and do tell.

I would say there are Russian trolls on this forum, do you know any?

 

[independentusa]

A militarist is a person in favor of militarism, and one definition of militarism is:

Quote: the opinions or actions of people who believe that a country should use military methods, forces, etc., to gain power and to achieve its goals.

Except we nor Ukraine are the ones who are trying to reach certain goals in this fight, that is Putin and Russia. Ukraine did not start this war and is only fighting for its country and we are assisting them to keep their democracy. Instead of saying we are the militarists, why do not say Russia is the one who is to blame for this war. Do you think if Russia attacked France next, we should just step back and say that is fine with us? Do you really think that we couls talk Russia out of Ukraine< really?

 

[Questerr]

Except we nor Ukraine are the ones who are trying to reach certain goals in this fight, that is Putin and Russia. Ukraine did not start this war and is only fighting for its country and we are assisting them to keep their democracy. Instead of saying we are the militarists, why do not say Russia is the one who is to blame for this war. Do you think if Russia attacked France next, we should just step back and say that is fine with us? Do you really think that we couls talk Russia out of Ukraine< really?

Ukraine is trying to reach the goal of defending themselves from an invasion, and in @Antiwar’s mind that makes them militarists.

 

[MamboDervish]

What do your examples have to do with this thread?

Really? Too complicated for you to make the connection? It should be obvious.

An American talking about waiting for multilateral disarmament is odd.

I wasn't talking about waiting for multilateral disarmament. I was explaining by illustration why nobody in their right mind should be waiting for unilateral disarmament. At least nobody who didn't just ride in on a unicorn. I'll pose these questions one more time.

What makes you think that, just for example, Arabs and Persians will disarm their borders after hundreds of years of recurring conflict? Or even Pakistan and India, a conflict that has only existed for a few generations? Do you see them buying what you're selling in your OP anytime soon?

Now try to apply those questions in their OBVIOUS connecton to your OP question about whether or not it's "finally time to defund war." If you can't even do that, then our exchange has no place to go.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

The OP seems to be Russian propaganda. The person who would benefit the most from "defunding war" is Putin. Also @Antiwar spouts a lot of anti-American crap sprinkled with shaming and stereotyping. And seems to talk about Americans as if he is not one. Every thread that he posts in its always attempts at manipulations, and dissing the American people. And most of all an insult to intelligence.

It is rational and logical to assert that a nation needs a military since factions on our world wish to engage in genocide (like Russia is doing in Ukraine). Only a fool would stand around and let that be the new norm. And the OP is a proponent of genocide. Inactions speak just as loud as actions.

 

[Ambig]

Yes. The "But Hitler" thing is so overused I'm going to vomit soon.

I think the reason it's overused is that it is a pretty precise parallel.

It seems odd to me... to toss it out because you're tired of it.

Yet nobody has tamped the USA down yet, which is the biggest warmongering nation on earth. Hmmm.

So your solution is to sit here on our continent and let fires rage out of control around the globe?

That doesn't seem wise to me. It sounds foolish.

Ukraine really isnt the USAs to "concede" or not.

Sure it is. This is a culture war. Democracy vs. totalitarianism.

"Nuclear confidence"? LOL. OK.

Thanks for your LOL... whatever you're trying to mean by it.

I'd probably feel like one of those dead Iraqis feels. Oooooops! I guess they aren't feeling any pain at all are they? "Liberated"!! I'd feel as "liberated" as a dead Iraqi?

So because people might die, you refuse to resist any abuse as a citizen?

Other people don't feel that way. Washington and Franklin, for example.

 

[Ambig]

Ukraine is trying to reach the goal of defending themselves from an invasion, and in @Antiwar’s mind that makes them militarists.

Yeah, it's pretty weird. Someone who is truly against militarism would come here to rage against Russia.

But instead Antiwar comes to shame us for resisting aggression.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

I think the reason it's overused is that it is a pretty precise parallel.

If you think what's happening in Ukraine is a "precise parallel" of Nazi Germany in the 40s....you are 100% illiterate of history.

So your solution is to sit here on our continent and let fires rage out of control around the globe?

Pretty much. The "globe" will have to fend for itself.

That doesn't seem wise to me. It sounds foolish.

Yet YOU are sitting on your ass on a message board. LOL. Funny.

Sure it is. This is a culture war. Democracy vs. totalitarianism.

If you say so. I'm not real concerned.

So because people might die, you refuse to resist any abuse as a citizen?

Huh? LOL.

Other people don't feel that way. Washington and Franklin, for example.

Yeah. I'm sure they would shriek mindlessly in support of global armies and "entangling alliances" BWAHAHAHA.

Thanks for stopping by AG.

dis - M I S S E D ! !

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

eah, it's pretty weird. Someone who is truly against militarism would come here to rage against Russia.

And/or the United States, the worlds #1 exporter of war, weapons, and death.

IJS

 

[Ambig]

If you think what's happening in Ukraine is a "precise parallel" of Nazi Germany in the 40s....you are 100% illiterate of history.

So you can't follow the dialogue. OK, I guess.

Pretty much. The "globe" will have to fend for itself.

Well, I'm glad you're not running our State Department or military, is all I can say.

Read about Nazi Germany in the early to late 30's, as I've suggested to you.

dis - M I S S E D ! !

View attachment 67414930

Sorry for disturbing your certainties. It's just what I do.

 

[Ambig]

And/or the United States, the worlds #1 exporter of war, weapons, and death.

IJS

Of course. But we are facing a militaristic Russia right now. A country which just invaded a sovereign nation. I wonder why that isn't being mentioned by those who claim to oppose militarism?

Sometimes it almost seems like we have agents for Russia in here.

 

[NatMorton]

This is brilliant. We simply convince the world's despots that militarism risks further climate change. Why didn't anyone think of this earlier?

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

So you can't follow the dialogue. OK, I guess.

Well, I'm glad you're not running our State Department or military, is all I can say.

Read about Nazi Germany in the early to late 30's, as I've suggested to you.


Sorry for disturbing your certainties. It's just what I do.

Thanks for the hearty chuckles...."read a book about Nazi Germany" BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You have a great one, again thanks for dropping by.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Of course. But we are facing a militaristic Russia right now.

No we're not. I'm sitting in my den drinking coffee. Enjoying my pleasant morning. Where do you see "Russia"?

A country which just invaded a sovereign nation. I

Oh NOES!!!! You mean "sovereign nation"....like Iraq? Afghanistan?
Yeahhhhhh. Sorry. But Ukraine isnt my "sovereign nation".....someone else will have to deal with it. Got a lot going on today, I'm going to roll one up and take the dog walking in the woods. I doubt I'll have time for Ukraine or Russia. We'll see how it goes. Naw I definitely wont have time for that.

 

[Ambig]

Thanks for the hearty chuckles...."read a book about Nazi Germany" BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You have a great one, again thanks for dropping by.

Sorry to disturb you. It happens when people are faced with contrary views.

 

[Ambig]

No we're not. I'm sitting in my den drinking coffee. Enjoying my pleasant morning. Where do you see "Russia"?

And my dog doesn't seem disturbed by the Russian invasion either. But those who run governments are very concerned about it.

Oh NOES!!!! You mean "sovereign nation"....like Iraq? Afghanistan?

Yes. Those sorts of invasions. Are you thinking I'm a nationalist?

Yeahhhhhh. Sorry. But Ukraine isnt my "sovereign nation".....someone else will have to deal with it.

Yeah, that's what a lot of people said about Japan and Germany in the 1930s. Not their problem.

But governments don't have the luxury of doing that.

Got a lot going on today, I'm going to roll one up and take the dog walking in the woods. I doubt I'll have time for Ukraine or Russia. We'll see how it goes. Naw I definitely wont have time for that.

Well, OK then.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

And my dog doesn't seem disturbed by the Russian invasion either. But those who run governments are very concerned about it.

Ok. Well....I dont run any governments...sooo.....(you see where I'm going with that correct?)

Yes. Those sorts of invasions. Are you thinking I'm a nationalist?

I dunno, you're carrying on about Russia like the world is ending (it isn't), yet your own nation still has troops in Iraq. Worry about your own nation, get your house in order.

Yeah, that's what a lot of people said about Japan and Germany in the 1930s. Not their problem.

OK. If additional nations start to get involved (I dont see that happening directly), I may start to become concerned. But probably not even then. What am I going to do about it? Nothing. Neither are you.
Chill dude, you're trying to harsh my mellow and its not going to happen.

Just take it eassssyyyyyy...........

 

[Ambig]

Ok. Well....I dont run any governments...sooo.....(you see where I'm going with that correct?)

And yet you seem to be arguing what our government should or shouldn't do.

I dunno, you're carrying on about Russia like the world is ending

Nah. I'm just talking about geopolitics. It's a political debate forum.

(yet your own nation still has troops in Iraq. Worry about your own nation, get your house in order.

Chill dude, you're trying to harsh my mellow and its not going to happen.

OK. If additional nations start to get involved (I dont see that happening directly),

Crimea. Do you remember?

This invasion was not Russia's first step of aggression.

I may start to become concerned. But probably not even then. What am I going to do about it? Nothing. Neither are you.

Of course I'm doing something about it. So are you (while denying that you're doing it.)

Political debate.

 

[mrjurrs]

I think I've seen @mrjurrs post some decent commentary, yet he 'liked' that post. What's up with that, @mrjurrs? One cannot be an environmentalist, a progressive, and a militarist.

I'm not supporting the military industrial complex, I'm pointing out the fallacy in the post.

 

[mrjurrs]

Reminds me of the old hippie saying - suppose they gave a war and nobody came.

Idiotic then, even stupider now.

Really?

 

[Antiwar]

Yeah, it's pretty weird. Someone who is truly against militarism would come here to rage against Russia.

But instead Antiwar comes to shame us for resisting aggression.

No offense, but you post too much fluff for even me, a very active poster, to bother replying to even a quarter of it.