Is it fear?

[coldjoint]

Newp. It's fear. And there are countless Muslim who don't think women should necessarily be covered and Muslim women who do not do so.

Fear, as I already explained. Pure and simple.

Looks like you are saying Muslim men fear women. I would like to see anything that remotely supports that. That would be called a "souce". Give that a try.

 

[Manc Skipper]

Looks like you are saying Muslim men fear women. I would like to see anything that remotely supports that. That would be called a "souce". Give that a try.

It won't be a bigoted source so you won't accept it. The obvious evidence is their need to control women. The equivalent of keeping them chained to the sink, barefoot and pregnant as the cliche and the "quiverfull" movement has it.

 

[Mithrae]

does that include the west (first world)?

I reckon so. Little hope for improvement is probably the wrong choice of words; satisfaction might be better. Fear of the West as suggested in the OP really can't explain why a wealthy lad like bin Laden would have turned to violent extremism - from what I gather his family's fortune was built on trade with the West! Presumably he was looking for something which money couldn't buy.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

Looks like you are saying Muslim men fear women. I would like to see anything that remotely supports that. That would be called a "souce". Give that a try.

Why would I bother? In order for you to appreciate it, you'd have to be actually interested in it, capable of honest discourse and understand what I post. I've spend some time in the ME and heard plenty of of imams demonstrating this. But because I don't want to see you frustrated, here you go.

Beyond the Veil: Fear of Women in Islam
https://www.amazon.com/Moslem-Men-Fear-Women-Females/dp/1502441349
Five Things Islam Is Most Afraid of?

Careful! Those links require reading and effort.

 

[Sweden]

That was us. We installed a crappy shah. The people didn't like our puppet dictator and that gave just enough room for an extremist evil ***hole to take over. The same process was repeated in virtually every african, middle eastern, and SW asian country that western powers ever sought to control. (And of course, Russian jumped into Afghanistan too)



We filled our cup of woe, and yea, it spills over. And then some.

The Shah was making great progress in increasing literacy and weaning the people away from blind devotion to fundamental shiaism. The press was becoming more free and small steps towards democracy were being taken. He was not a British or American puppet and opposed our policies vigorously when he wanted to. Those of us who lived in Iran in the Shah's time (in my case in the late sixties) were convinced he was the better alternative. The only other option was a religious dictatorship which we thought would be worse. How right we were.

 

[Fletch]

Which is stupid.

Did I claim otherwise?

 

[Fletch]

Except, of course, that it is. You don't have to like reality, but there it is, all the same.

The reality is that fear has nothing to do with it. It is religious ideology and nothing more. THAT is reality

 

[Fletch]

It won't be a bigoted source so you won't accept it. The obvious evidence is their need to control women. The equivalent of keeping them chained to the sink, barefoot and pregnant as the cliche and the "quiverfull" movement has it.

That is not 'evidence' that it is done out of fear, but simply your biased opinion.

 

[Groogrux]

How did you come to that conclusion?

What conclusion exactly?

 

[Skeptic Bob]

What makes this

View attachment 67204718

And this

View attachment 67204719

Turn into this

View attachment 67204720

And this

View attachment 67204721


Is it fear? What would make them change from a moderate society to clinging to an extreme form of religion? My only guess is a fear of being taking over by the west? Thoughts?

Fear would explain taking up arms against a perceived oppressor. I'm not as certain it explains religious radicalization. I think feeling disenchanted or unfulfilled with life leads more to that.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

The reality is that fear has nothing to do with it. It is religious ideology and nothing more. THAT is reality

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree, in that case.

 

[Groogrux]

Fear would explain taking up arms against a perceived oppressor. I'm not as certain it explains religious radicalization. I think feeling disenchanted or unfulfilled with life leads more to that.

Why do you think they would feel that way?

 

[Aunt Spiker]

What makes this


Turn into this


Is it fear? What would make them change from a moderate society to clinging to an extreme form of religion? My only guess is a fear of being taking over by the west? Thoughts?

It's actually different things - a mix of concepts, theologies, beliefs, and emotions.

For some: it's seen as tradition - carrying with it self respect and propriety.
Some women favor it and would prefer to continue with it - and it's not out of fear or threat of abuse and punishment, it holds a matter of dignity and self respect.

For others: it's fear - enforcing the rules to wear such things is done through fear, and the counterpart is encouraged and fostered villany. Here is where you see issues of abuse, neglect, extremism for women who won't comply, government mandated rules and punishments - etc. There's a control issue in this.

Yet others: Ignorance and paranoia. This is where the beliefs that 'their scantily clad legs will lead our fine young men to have impure thoughts'.

Overall, whatever the reason, it's up to those citizens on those countries to contend with it how they see fit. It's not up to outsiders like US government to step in and say 'you're not doing life right - change!' That's absurd.

 

[Manc Skipper]

That is not 'evidence' that it is done out of fear, but simply your biased opinion.

The fearfilled would say that.

 

[_Sal]

I reckon so. Little hope for improvement is probably the wrong choice of words; satisfaction might be better. Fear of the West as suggested in the OP really can't explain why a wealthy lad like bin Laden would have turned to violent extremism - from what I gather his family's fortune was built on trade with the West! Presumably he was looking for something which money couldn't buy.

agreed

 

[coldjoint]

It won't be a bigoted source so you won't accept it. The obvious evidence is their need to control women. The equivalent of keeping them chained to the sink, barefoot and pregnant as the cliche and the "quiverfull" movement has it.

You are a bigoted source, or can't you see that?