Is Israel a Rogue State ?

[CaptainCourtesy]

Yes, if Israel was a guiltless victim it would be different. But they're not.

Guiltless, no. If we are talking about degree, far, far less.

 

[new coup for you]

Would you like the list of atrocities committed by Muslim extremists to be posted? What about the Saudi Arabian support for our sworn enemies? Iranian slaughters? Trust me. The list of atrocities committed by Israel doesn't even come close to that of extremists.

Arabs being worse does not make Isrealis good.

 

[Hatuey]

Arabs being worse does not make Isrealis good.

LOL - Who said so? You're being over simplistic. As CC already said. It's degree. Not "good or bad". Matter of fact who said anything about Arabs? I said Muslim Extremists. Learn the difference and stop creating strawmen.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Arabs being worse does not make Isrealis good.

No...but, again, we need to discuss degree. No one is always "good", nor is anyone always "bad". In the matter of degree, Israel is 'good' far, far more often than many of the Arabs have been.

 

[Hatuey]

Kudos to the OP for creating a loaded poll. Very Aquapubesque.

 

[new coup for you]

How I judge one entity is completely unaffected by the behavior of its neighbors.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

...they're angry at our liberty and freedom?

I'm speechless.

Are you serious? Maybe they're angry that we support a country that bascially colonized a very sacred place in their region.

Why do the extremists hate us? It's not because they "hate our freedom". That's ludicrous. That's what Bush wants us to think.

They hate us because of the things we do, not the kind of people we are.

Israel is offensive to them. We support Isreal. We become offensive to them.

I agree that they are angry at our liberty and freedom, in part, but lets say you are right, they're angry that we support a country that bascially colonized a very sacred place in their region. That's fine. They have a right to that. Doesn't justify what they have done, and what they have done doesn't justify our support. I don't care what they believe, it's how they act on these beliefs that are unacceptable.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Kudos to the OP for creating a loaded poll. Very Aquapubesque.

Absolutely. Precisely why I dismissed it, aggressively, in my first post, here.

 

[new coup for you]

I agree that they are angry at our liberty and freedom, in part, but lets say you are right, they're angry that we support a country that bascially colonized a very sacred place in their region. That's fine. They have a right to that. Doesn't justify what they have done, and what they have done doesn't justify our support. I don't care what they believe, it's how they act on these beliefs that are unacceptable.

You're right. It absolutely doesn't. But that's not the issue, is it? The issue is pouring our money and political support endlessly into Israel and receiving no benefit as a result.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

How I judge one entity is completely unaffected by the behavior of its neighbors.

You are contradicting yourself. You stated that you belief it is more important to support Arabs than Israel because of oil vs. dates. Trade possibilities are behaviors. You have also, often compared Arab and Israeli behaviors. Beyond that, what you suggest is impossible, because choices must be made. One cannot support Israel and Iran, and have good relations with each.

 

[Hatuey]

How I judge one entity is completely unaffected by the behavior of its neighbors.

The actions of the entity in question come as a direct result of it's neighbor's behavior. In other words you're ignoring what is done to Israel and only look at how Israel retaliates. Imagine if I saw a video of individual-A getting beat up at a store by individual-B. Now imagine the video has been played in such a way that I didn't see the moment when individual-A tried to rob individual B. I'd create the opinion that A is the victim and B is the aggressor. That is basically how your opinion is formed. You ignore the fact that international issues like the Middle East problem are all about constant action and reaction. This means you don't have a complete picture of events.

 

[new coup for you]

Possessing oil is not a "behavior".

No. Choices don't have to be made. Bush wants you to think that, because if forced to make a choice Israel is the obvious choice to most people.

We could approach the entire Middle East neutrally and fairly. Other nations do it.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

You're right. It absolutely doesn't. But that's not the issue, is it? The issue is pouring our money and political support endlessly into Israel and receiving no benefit as a result.

Sure it does, and this has been explained by several posters. Good relations with a democratic country in the ME is vital, strategically, for the US. Dropping support for Israel and giving it to Arab countries, instead, will not change terrorism, and, in fact, will just make us bowing down to terrorist demands. Support us or you'll be sorry. The best way to deal with a bully is not to back down.

 

[Hatuey]

You are contradicting yourself. You stated that you belief it is more important to support Arabs than Israel because of oil vs. dates. Trade possibilities are behaviors. You have also, often compared Arab and Israeli behaviors. Beyond that, what you suggest is impossible, because choices must be made. One cannot support Israel and Iran, and have good relations with each.

Precisely perfect examples of not being able to have relations with both is Cuba. Cuba is very good friend with Iran yet their relations with Israel are non-existent. Same goes for Venezuela.

 

[new coup for you]

Do you think supporting Israel benefits Arab democracy? I think it serves as a recruiter poster for every extremist in the entire region. I think when we do things like turn a blind eye to the Israeli nuclear program it motivates Iran to build its own.

Israel is not a Middle Eastern country. It is a Western country that happens to be in the Middle East.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Possessing oil is not a "behavior".

Trading oil is.

No. Choices don't have to be made. Bush wants you to think that, because if forced to make a choice Israel is the obvious choice to most people.

We could approach the entire Middle East neutrally and fairly. Other nations do it.

Yes, choices have to be made, and this has nothing to do with Bush, who I do not support. We do not live in a bubble. You cannot support a Republican and a Democrat in the same election. If you support Israel, Iran will not be your ally. If you support Iran, supporting Israel will cause Irans alliance to disappear. Please demonstrate how other countries accomplish neutrality in the ME.

 

[Leftist Protozoa]

I think what is important here is this question....

If all the Jewish women flaunted pictures of their high-heeled shoes and calfs on the internet, would that make us like them any more?

 

[new coup for you]

You don't have to "support" anyone, you can treat everyone equally.

Chinese relations in the Middle East are fairly balanced.

 

[Hatuey]

I think what is important here is this question....

If all the Jewish women flaunted pictures of their high-heeled shoes and calfs on the internet, would that make us like them any more?

Not. But if Tashah got 4-5 of her friends to do it on webcam. I'd die a happy man.

 

[Hatuey]

You don't have to "support" anyone, you can treat everyone equally.

Chinese relations in the Middle East are fairly balanced.

Chinese don't have relations with anybody. They have investments. It's not in their interests for Muslim extremists to destroy Israel anymore then it is ours. Why? It's not in their interests for Israel to get out hand anymore then it is ours. The difference with the Chinese is that they're more sneaky about their business and like good business men don't voice their disagreements too loudly. We do. Sue us.

 

[Leftist Protozoa]

Not. But if Tashah got 4-5 of her friends to do it on webcam. I'd die a happy man.

Hatuey, my friend, I can direct you to some better porn. And afterwards you wouldn't feel like you had just screwed 6 million Palestinans.

 

[Hatuey]

Hatuey, my friend, I can direct you to some better porn. And afterwards you wouldn't feel like you had just screwed 6 million Palestinans.

It's alright. As long as they have their shots, I have a condom and the wife condones an orgy, a little mileage won't be that much of a problem.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

You don't have to "support" anyone, you can treat everyone equally.

Chinese relations in the Middle East are fairly balanced.

Chinese don't have relations with anybody. They have investments. It's not in their interests for Muslim extremists to destroy Israel anymore then it is ours. Why? It's not in their interests for Israel to get out hand anymore then it is ours. The difference with the Chinese is that they're more sneaky about their business and like good business men don't voice their disagreements too loudly. We do. Sue us.

Actually, Sino-Israel relations have been worsening as of late. Guess why? :roll:

Israel has been a major supplier of military technology and weapons to China; but Arab and Iranian oil supplies are nowadays more important to Chinese policymakers than Israeli arms.
China Confidential: China-Israel Relations Worsening

China seems to be taking sides on the Hamas-Israeli issue:

China's ambassador in Israel Chan Yang Lang has been summoned to the Foreign Ministry in Jerusalem to a meeting, told of Israel's strong objection against Beijing's invitation of Hamas Foreign Minister Mahmoud al-Zahar to China.

'China legitimizing terror' - Israel News, Ynetnews

Now there are some good things in this relationship, including the 'Festival of Culture' both countries celebrating 15 years of relations. But, as in the first article, oil is starting to change the trend.

 

[Leftist Protozoa]

It's alright. As long as they have their shots, I have a condom and the wife condones an orgy, a little mileage won't be that much of a problem.

Seriously... what exactly made you decide to select "slightly liberal" as a self-description? I've been reading your posts in many threads, and I'm just not feeling it. Did you pick it just because it was a way to be trendy without joining the Ron Paul snow-ball throwing camp?

What issues are you "slightly liberal" on?

 

[Hatuey]

Seriously... what exactly made you decide to select "slightly liberal" as a self-description? I've been reading your posts in many threads, and I'm just not feeling it. Did you pick it just because it was a way to be trendy without joining the Ron Paul snow-ball throwing camp?

What issues are you "slightly liberal" on?

- Abortion - Keep it legal and available to every woman who needs it. *
- Iraq War - Take our boys out.
- Gay rights - It's nobody's business what gays want to call their unions.
- Sex(includes Homosexual sex) - It's nobody's business what I do in my bedroom with my dog, my wife or my cousin Joe.
- Freedom of Speech - In the arts mostly.
- Prostitution - pro-legalization - It's a job like any other. Except you get to have sex.
- Drugs - Pro-legalization of marijuana - The far right has demonized marijuana.

Issues I'm conservative on :

- Education - In dire need of complete makeover. Students shouldn't have more power then teachers.
- Crime - Go hard on people who break the law but follow lawful procedures.
- Affirmative Action - Completely unnecessary in the 21st century.

Issues I'm moderate on :

- Immigration - I support a program for people who want to become citizens. Of course a minimal fee of $5,000 should be paid by each illegal immigrant and then a 3 year waiting list. Deport the ones in jail.

- Israeli-Palestinian Conflict : Support both an independent Israel and Palestine but if Palestinians want to let terrorists like Hamas run the shots the screw them.

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I'm also an Aries and I when I went to Japan I got the chance to meet Nigo in person. Anything else?